Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[otto]

You are looking at the dock with a break water going out a bit into the river. The dock would be at a calm, accessible spot for launching boats.

RCMP send search specialists to scour area where bodies of B.C. homicide suspects were found

 

[Zella]

Yeah as yet another fidgety and nervous person, I totally agree with you. Anxiety and murder do not mix. I wonder if Kam wasn't freaking out just as much though, but just like he was able to keep his dark side buried, he was able to keep his internal freakout buried too. Also if they were reacting that badly at that point, imagine how it was when they were in the wilderness and decided to commit suicide....

Bryer being such a nervous person makes me think about the robbery gone wrong scenario. Don't most robberies that end in murder happen because the robber panics?

And more than ever I have the overwhelming feeling of...none of this had to happen.

I think Kam was probably just as demoralized and worried but could keep a lid on it better.

Honestly, at this point, if it were revealed that KM died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound and BS didn't, I wouldn't be surprised. I could see him being very nervous about the whole thing and asking Kam to do it for him. I would be surprised if it were the other way around.

Incidentally, I've been told (don't ask LOL) that the worst person to bring along on an armed robbery is a nervous person. It's a recipe for disaster--and bloodshed. So, yes, I can definitely see a robbery gone wrong. I can also see them thinking if they'd killed 2 people, why not 1 more.

All MOO

 

[1987]

a .22 goes in easily and then tends to tumble around causing more damage inside from that tumble.

 

[derbywinner]

I don't even know why this discussion even continues because it has absolutely zero relevance to the fact that 2 young men have committed 3 murders.

I don't think it has 0 relevance. People are discussing why 2 young men left their island, supposedly with 0 economics and 0 money to kill people.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Respectfully snipped! That is a great article, I'm going out on a limb here but something Ste-Croix said jumped out at me (BBM): "Ste-Croix said the teens had ample opportunity to steal his new pick-up truck and his wallet could be seen inside the vehicle... My sense of humour. Making them laugh and showing someone cares.”

I got the vibe from Ste-Croix, even just reading the interviews he did, that he's the kind of person who automatically puts people at ease. I think that's why I feel so sad after reading that article, like I agree with his assessment that they probably felt bullied or isolated for a lot of their lives and didn't have enough positive interactions like that with people.

Is it possible the guys might've had car issues or needed directions and stopped in travels on roadside or gas station to ask LF & CD for help and somehow felt dissed by the couple where an inferiority complex might kick in?

Two good-looking outgoing people, well versed in travelling then creepy BS comes along and creeps them out, so they might've been short (coming off as rude maybe eve) if feeling uncomfortable maybe even telling the teens to buzz off, get lost or something.

I have a family member who worked at a maximum pen with the worst of the worst criminals and he said so many murders happen from a random interaction with the wrong person who feels put down - they'll stew and stew about it, then go back a kill a person over it. Quite common in violent crimes especially with alcohol involved. You see it in road rage incidents as well. You piss of the wrong person and if they have a weapon that can be a recipe for murder.

Honestly Bryer has kind of reminded me of an angrier Ziggy Sobotka from The Wire, and that's exactly what his character did (spoilers!)

 

[scrappinkat]

I wondered about how he survived, until one of our members posted the location upthread. I now believe that the reason he wasn't shot is probably because of the location; too many people in the area. Had it been a remote location, I suspect he might not have been so fortunate, assuming they still had a weapon.

Maybe they simply weren’t on a killing spree?? At this point there’s only been one charge of second degree murder but even that would have needed to go to trial before they were guilty of murder.

I thought in Canada it was innocent until proven guilty.

 

[Zella]

Interesting. The road worked said he saw a "hole" somewhere near Lucas' stomach (going from memory). Young adults on Vancouver Island had 22s for recreation when I visited a long time ago, the guns are probably still popular with that age group. Maybe it wasn't that hard for the suspects to get their hands on a 22.

I am not a firearms expert but grew up around guns. I could definitely see LF's wound possibly being from a 22 cal, based on what was described. I would be surprised if that accounted for what he was suggesting about CD's injuries.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

Maybe it wasn't that hard for the suspects to get their hands on a 22.

It’s an extremely common caliber, a relative might well own one, and the recoil is insignificant/takes no getting used to.

 

[otto]

Respectfully snipped! Is it possible the guys might've had car issues or needed directions and stopped in travels on roadside or gas station to ask LF & CD for help and somehow felt dissed by the couple where an inferiority complex might kick in?

Two good-looking outgoing people, well versed in travelling then creepy BS comes along and creeps them out, so they might've been short (coming off as rude maybe eve) if feeling uncomfortable maybe even telling the teens to buzz off, get lost or something.

I have a family member who worked at a maximum pen with the worst of the worst criminals and he said so many murders happen from a random interaction with the wrong person who feels put down - they'll stew and stew about it, then go back a kill a person over it. Quite common in violent crimes especially with alcohol involved. You see it in road rage incidents as well. You piss of the wrong person and if they have a weapon that can be a recipe for murder.

I've wondered that too. We have a 24 and 23 year old couple, and an 18 and 19 pair. Maybe Kam was seen at their van at 11:30PM on July 14. The road worker described a Caucasian bearded man close to the height of Lucas (6'3") standing in the middle of the road. It was dark. Maybe Bryer was standing farther away, maybe he had a 22.

One person has out stretched palm up hands, the situation looked acrimonious. What happened?

 

[Moriarty]

Not my theory, but I like it.

Factfinder3000: My theory

The murder of Lucas and Chynna was unplanned. We shall leave the motive out for now, but they ended up murdering Lucas and Chynna and took off. A few days later they became absolutely convinced that there were going to be convicted of the crime. Perhaps they realized, as somebody theorized earlier today, that they had left their fingerprints. Maybe they thought too many cars drove by and saw them. Who knows, but they became absolutely convinced that their goose was cooked, so to speak. They vowed not to be taken alive. Of course they had to ditch the truck and camper, because it was easily spotted.

This is pretty much the theory I’ve been running with as well.

I’d go a step further and suggest that the trigger to burn their camper and find another vehicle might have been either seeing one of those roadside signs asking for anyone with dash cam footage for the time period around LF and CD’s murders or they saw that news article with a photo of that sign when they stopped at the Jade City store and got the free coffee. They had been camping in that area for a few days, according the store owner in the the interview she did, and they thought they were home free.

They panicked. They hitched a ride with LD (since the two were seen hitchhiking bear Dease Lake), they killed him and took his Rav4, burned their own vehicle and took off eastwards.

They would have to have been complete morons to burn their camper without another ride to get away. Anyone could have come running with the sight of the smoke/flames from their camper. I’m certain they had the Rav first.

I’m also pretty certain that by the time they had become really big news and named as suspects, they were already dead. I can’t remember exact dates at the moment, but seems to me they had been named suspects on the Tuesday when they were already in Gillam and the Rav was on fire.

JMO of course.

 

[derbywinner]

When did Fowler and Deese camp at Pink Mountain?

I think Pink Mountain is in the Peace which is close to Hudsons Hope.

 

[derbywinner]

I think Pink Mountain is in the Peace which is close to Hudsons Hope.

I have to find the news report by Global BC

 

[Zella]

This is pretty much the theory I’ve been running with as well.

I’d go a step further and suggest that the trigger to burn their camper and find another vehicle might have been either seeing one of those roadside signs asking for anyone with dash cam footage for the time period around LF and CD’s murders or they saw that news article with a photo of that sign when they stopped at the Jade City store and got the free coffee. They had been camping in that area for a few days, according the store owner in the the interview she did, and they thought they were home free.

They panicked. They hitched a ride with LD (since the two were seen hitchhiking bear Dease Lake), they killed him and took his Rav4, burned their own vehicle and took off eastwards.

They would have to have been complete morons to burn their camper without another ride to get away. Anyone could have come running with the sight of the smoke/flames from their camper. I’m certain they had the Rav first.

I’m also pretty certain that by the time they had become really big news and named as suspects, they were already dead. I can’t remember exact dates at the moment, but seems to me they had been named suspects on the Tuesday when they were already in Gillam and the Rav was on fire.

JMO of course.

I think this all makes a lot of sense.

And I share your suspicion that they were dead before they were even named suspects. The Rav4 was abandoned on Monday, July 22, and the announcement of them as suspects was that following day on a Tuesday. I think they were officially announced missing that previous Sunday, July 21--the same day that they were helped out of the mud hole they were stuck in.

 

[Seattle1]

Respectfully snipped! That is a great article, I'm going out on a limb here but something Ste-Croix said jumped out at me (BBM): "Ste-Croix said the teens had ample opportunity to steal his new pick-up truck and his wallet could be seen inside the vehicle... My sense of humour. Making them laugh and showing someone cares.”

Is it possible the guys might've had car issues or needed directions and stopped in travels on roadside or gas station to ask LF & CD for help and somehow felt dissed by the couple where an inferiority complex might kick in?

Two good-looking outgoing people, well versed in travelling then creepy BS comes along and creeps them out, so they might've been short (coming off as rude maybe eve) if feeling uncomfortable maybe even telling the teens to buzz off, get lost or something.

I have a family member who worked at a maximum pen with the worst of the worst criminals and he said so many murders happen from a random interaction with the wrong person who feels put down - they'll stew and stew about it, then go back a kill a person over it. Quite common in violent crimes especially with alcohol involved. You see it in road rage incidents as well. You piss of the wrong person and if they have a weapon that can be a recipe for murder.

Given how BS is often described as the one with the psycho look, I definitely get the "insult collector" vibe from him.

I also think that with BS left to do the pushing/tugging of the rig while KM sat in the drivers seat, no way would they have gotten to the road without the help of Ste-Croix.

Also interesting he got the "bullied kids" vibe from being around them.

And the power of sharing their real identities also rings a bit of "dupers delight" to me.

MOO

 

[otto]

I am not a firearms expert but grew up around guns. I could definitely see LF's wound possibly being from a 22 cal, based on what was described. I would be surprised if that accounted for what he was suggesting about CD's injuries.

The road worker said something about bubbles / foam near her mouth. I was curious about that, and it sounds like it can be from something like a shot to the lung area.

There were other injuries - no clue why she needed a closed casket funeral.

 

[Optics]

That's a really interesting article! Thanks for posting.

Some choice quotes from it that stood out to me:
That detail about the work intrigued me. I wonder what Bryer was doing that was work since Kam was apparently in the car putting it in reverse. Was he the one who was moving the sleeping bag and stuff to and from the car before and after?

Also does seem to confirm some of our speculation that Bryer could be kind of fidgety and nervous. What was he doing with his pants?! (I'm envisioning Matt Foley. LOL) Did he not have a belt, maybe?

Okay I have a Huge problem with Mr. Ste. Croix from Cold Lake's comments in the Aug 10 article. Go back and read the first interview with him in which he says there was barely any communication btwn him and Bryer & Kam. Basically he had said he pulled them out, and that was that. Now suddenly on Aug 10....he has a whole huge expansion on his encounter including his assessment of them. He never even heard of the case in BC, and it was his wife the next morning who directed him to a photo of the two guys. Now suddenly he's followed this case and become an expert on the boys? Sorry I don't buy it. I'll stick to the very first public statement from him where he claims they didn't exchange much words. Also he has no clue whether they had a cellphone on them or not. This is why it is always said that witnesses aren't always reliable - which is something that has prevailed throughout in this whole spree from start to end.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I think Kam was probably just as demoralized and worried but could keep a lid on it better.

Honestly, at this point, if it were revealed that KM's died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound and BS's didn't, I wouldn't be surprised. I could see him being very nervous about the whole thing and asking Kam to do it for him. I would be surprised if it were the other way around.

I was literally just thinking of the exact same thing. Damn, like...can you imagine what their last hours were like...why the hell did they have to do all this?

Incidentally, I've been told (don't ask LOL) that the worst person to bring along on an armed robbery is a nervous person. It's a recipe for disaster--and bloodshed. So, yes, I can definitely see a robbery gone wrong. I can also see them thinking if they'd killed 2 people, why not 1 more.

All MOO

Note to self: don't do crime (I'm the kind of person who gets paranoid in a store that the employees might wrongly accuse me of shoplifting, so I don't think crime was in my future anyway....)

 

[Deleted member 248860]

Incidentally, I've been told (don't ask LOL) that the worst person to bring along on an armed robbery is a nervous person. It's a recipe for disaster--and bloodshed. So, yes, I can definitely see a robbery gone wrong.

For the first time in forever, when I read that Dog Day Afternoon came to mind

 

[Zella]

Okay I have a Huge problem with Mr. Ste. Croix from Cold Lake's comments in the Aug 10 article. Go back and read the first interview with him in which he says there was barely any communication btwn him and Bryer & Kam. Basically he had said he pulled them out, and that was that. Now suddenly on Aug 10....he has a whole huge expansion on his encounter including his assessment of them. He never even heard of the case in BC, and it was his wife the next morning who directed him to a photo of the two guys. Now suddenly he's followed this case and become an expert on the boys? Sorry I don't buy it. I'll stick to the very first public statement from him where he claims they didn't exchange much words. Also he has no clue whether they had a cellphone on them or not. This is why it is always said that witnesses aren't always reliable - which is something that has prevailed throughout in this whole spree from start to end.

I don't really see that he's adding interaction so much as expanding on what he saw and his impressions. In both accounts, the gist is he went to help them out, he ascertained the situation from them, some jokes were exchanged, he bossed them around, they complied, and then they shook hands.

 

[Kubirai]

Is it possible the guys might've had car issues or needed directions and stopped in travels on roadside or gas station to ask LF & CD for help and somehow felt dissed by the couple where an inferiority complex might kick in?

Lucas and Chynna worked minimum wage jobs with all kinds of young men and women. This scenario is very unlikely.

Based on all available reports, KM/BS were far more likely to stop at any roadside vehicle at night, with bad intentions.

It is far less likely that they somehow met, and KM/BS started stalking Lucas/Chynna. Such meeting could have taken place anywhere, from Hudson's Hope on July 13 to Fort Nelson on July 14.