Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #15

[NJSleuth91]

SBM - Good point about Kam just hiding it better. Interesting as it seems like Bryer was almost screaming out for attention/help with all the red flag stunting as who does that unless they WANT attention? And no one seemed to step in.

I feel like maybe he was doing it to "test" people and see how much they noticed or cared. And when they ignored it, laughed it off, or just avoided him, he felt even more alienated, depressed, and angry. He probably wasn't even consciously aware of the reasons behind that pattern of behavior. JMO.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I've wondered if it was part-time. If so, they probably stayed up gaming on their nights off and may have been used to that schedule anyway and slept during the day regardless of whether it was a work day or night.

Ah yes, working part-time... forgot that exists lol! That makes sense!

 

[Zella]

Have to wonder if their phones were dead by then, if not surely Bryer would film it. Surprised none of their activities were streamed!

I have wondered if they filmed some of their crimes. Doing so would be a pretty definitive statement of their guilt, but I hope for the sake of the families of the victims that such footage does not exist.

The lack of streaming or broadcasting their crimes on social media is interesting. Then again, neither of them seemed super active on social media, all things considered. I think even if they wanted notoriety, whatever motivations they had for doing this were more for them in their minds than for the world to know.

 

[otto]

SBM - Good point about Kam just hiding it better. Interesting as it seems like Bryer was almost screaming out for attention/help with all the red flag stunting as who does that unless they WANT attention? And no one seemed to step in.

Then Kam sounds squeaky clean and the opposite. Under the surface, smarter at hiding things, putting on a facade perhaps.

I bet Bryer wanted to set the cars on fire. Kam might've schemed people and got the supplies. They each definitely had their roles.

Kam stepped in. I agree - a team.

 

[Seattle1]

I totally agree, for most young people great idea to go be independent and away from home for the first time. I think Whitehorse was random and pulled out of the air possibly to tell family... with no job experience, no skills, why Whitehorse? It's not booming. They would've had better luck entry level construction on the island with all the new construction or Alberta. I feel the Whitehorse story might be fake. JMO

Knowing what we know now, I think there may have been a sense of false pride in saying we're off to the Yukon Territory because it's a place where perhaps their grandfathers would have said traveled to --a place "where boys become men."

During the 70's- 80's, there were gold mines, dock work, railroad, oil/refinery, sub-zero winters, and buckets of cash for those inclined.

I recall that even AS seemed impressed that they were headed to Whitehorse -- as if he too was buying the legend of Whitehorse.

I agree - there probably wasn't anything more for them today in Whitehorse than PA, albeit about 10k greater population.

It was only a ruse....

MOO

 

[Zella]

I feel like maybe he was doing it to "test" people and see how much they noticed or cared. And when they ignored it, laughed it off, or just avoided him, he felt even more alienated, depressed, and angry. He probably wasn't even consciously aware of the reasons behind that pattern of behavior. JMO.

Bingo!

Also, in my experience, antagonistic people will test you to see if you take bad behavior off them. If you take it, they will escalate because you have shown them that you will take it. If you call them on it, they back off (and usually act like "haha just a joke! Nothing to see here!"), again judging to see how you respond.

I think Bryer was probably very good at this, and I suspect he did more minor creepy things, testing the waters to see how someone reacted, before he did stuff as over-the-top as doxxing people during games and snorting Ritalin while decked out in Nazi regalia. I would be very shocked if he pulled that Ritalin stunt on someone without having tried several other things to gauge responses. Ditto for sending Nazi pictures and threatening his classmates. That's not to blame the people he did this, too. I think he realized once you let him cross the line, you were going to be increasingly less likely to say something as he escalated his behavior.

I think this also explains why he behaved around adults and some random peers. (That one friend of Kam's said Bryer never did anything weird around him. I think that was intentional and, for whatever reason, Bryer didn't think it would go over well.)

All MOO

 

[Zella]

Knowing what we know now, I think there may have been a sense of false pride in saying we're off to the Yukon Territory because it's a place where perhaps their grandfathers would have said traveled to --a place "where boys become men."

During the 70's- 80's, there were gold mines, dock work, railroad, oil/refinery, sub-zero winters, and buckets of cash for those inclined.

I recall that even AS seemed impressed that they were headed to Whitehorse -- as if he too was buying the legend of Whitehorse.

I agree - there probably wasn't anything more for them today in Whitehorse than PA, albeit about 10k greater population.

MOO

As far as I know, Bryer's father was told they were going to Alberta and knew nothing about Whitehorse until it was reported in the media.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Kam stepped in. I agree - a team.

Good thought Otto, that seems to be what happened.

 

[otto]

I know. The dates are off by about a week. But the dates were estimated for the break in so there could be wiggle room to the time of theft.

dates and times
what theft

 

[otto]

As far as I know, Bryer's father was told they were going to Alberta and knew nothing about Whitehorse until it was reported in the media.

Yes.
Bryer told his grandmother he was going to Whitehorse.
Bryer to his father he was going to Alberta.
What did Kam tell his parents?

 

[FactFinder3000]

Miraculously a Nelson River boater came forward after the bodies were found and claimed credit for finding the bodies - he reported a sleeping bag in Port Nelson 111 km away from the bodies.

Dyad is the term to describe two males 19/18 years old who are mutually influenced to act against known mores.

The sleeping bag easily could have floated there. It doesn't mean Bryer and Kam were at Port Nelson.

And apparently the RCMP were going by helicopter to check out that sleeping bag when they spotted the boat.

"They were on their way to Port Nelson to find the sleeping bag and that's when they [spotted] got the boat," Sawchuk said.

https://vaaju.com/canada/how-a-shar...iggered-a-search-that-ended-the-rcmp-manhunt/

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Knowing what we know now, I think there may have been a sense of false pride in saying we're off to the Yukon Territory because it's a place where perhaps their grandfathers would have said traveled to --a place "where boys become men."

During the 70's- 80's, there were gold mines, dock work, railroad, oil/refinery, sub-zero winters, and buckets of cash for those inclined.

I recall that even AS seemed impressed that they were headed to Whitehorse -- as if he too was buying the legend of Whitehorse.

I agree - there probably wasn't anything more for them today in Whitehorse than PA, albeit about 10k greater population.

MOO

I had to giggle at "The Legend of Whitehorse - where boys become men". That seriously sounds like a movie caption or book title lol, good one!

I went to Whitehorse to visit a friend many years ago. Great place. I recall lots of live music (no DJ music which was huge at the time) in every bar/pub and everyone I met shook my hand. It didn't seem like a busy city, it had a nice, warm small town feel to it from what I remember. I don't know much about the actual job sector BUT I do know Vancouver Island is hopping for new construction so they didn't have to leave.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I have wondered if they filmed some of their crimes. Doing so would be a pretty definitive statement of their guilt, but I hope for the sake of the families of the victims that such footage does not exist.

The likelihood of that depends on how planned they were, and if the plan was originally murder or if it was just robbery or something. It seems like the logistics of filming an ambush murder would be difficult though. I still kind of hope they filmed something on the run or a statement. I mean, it's 2019, the news is full of footage of mass violence, could have been an influence.

The lack of streaming or broadcasting their crimes on social media is interesting. Then again, neither of them seemed super active on social media, all things considered. I think even if they wanted notoriety, whatever motivations they had for doing this were more for them in their minds than for the world to know.

Well, if they streamed it, it would be a lot easier for them to get caught. I think the evidence of how they were acting indicates they were trying to get away.

That's another thing that makes me think it wasn't planned to be a murder spree, at least not as some kind of elaborate suicide thing for fame. You would think if so, this being the age of social media, they might have more of an online presence, more Taylor-Swift-esque murdery Easter eggs in their posts, more playing up of the "killer BFFs" thing with public posts between them. Kam especially barely had any presence at all. There's only one picture of them together at all (the butterflies one). There's hardly any pictures of Kam available at all, and most of the ones of Bryer came from friends and family. I mean usually these "fame" killers, like Columbine, Elliott Rodger, etc. have videos or something.

 

[LoisLane]

dates and times
what theft

View attachment 198247

View attachment 198248

Crime stoppers Port Alberni has a reported theft of two guns. The estimated dates of the theft are a week after they would have left P.A. but I’m open to those dates being off because the owners didn’t report/discover till the 22nd of July. Just something to tuck away.

On July 22nd, 2019 Port Alberni RCMP received a report that 2 shotguns were stolen from a residence in the 4800 block of David St between July 18th and 21st. The investigation indicates that a break and enter occurred and is being activbely examined. Port Alberni detachment is requesting any information regarding this incident or the location of the shotguns.

More Info: Port Alberni File # File #2019-7788

Crimes of the Week | Alberni Valley Crime Stoppers

 

[otto]

Just wanted to add to the gun source discussion from previous thread.

Edmonton killer Phu Lam used a handgun that was reported stolen in BC.

Toronto Danforth shooter's brother and a buddy had a few dozen handguns, previously stolen from a Saskatchewan gun store. They were probably for sale to GTA criminals.

Otto posted a link which mentioned occasional license holders purchasing dozens of guns legally, and selling them in the black market.

We will hopefully know in the future where these two guns came from, but they could have purchased them illegally in Nanaimo or Vancouver.

Gang violence is a growing problem in Canada. I mentioned how easy it is to buy a gun on the black market without looking.

I think it's possible that they picked up guns in Vancouver.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Bingo!

Also, in my experience, antagonistic people will test you to see if you take bad behavior off them. If you take it, they will escalate because you have shown them that you will take it. If you call them on it, they back off (and usually act like "haha just a joke! Nothing to see here!"), again judging to see how you respond.

I think Bryer was probably very good at this, and I suspect he did more minor creepy things, testing the waters to see how someone reacted, before he did stuff as over-the-top as doxxing people during games and snorting Ritalin while decked out in Nazi regalia. I would be very shocked if he pulled that Ritalin stunt on someone without having tried several other things to gauge responses. Ditto for sending Nazi pictures and threatening his classmates. That's not to blame the people he did this, too. I think he realized once you let him cross the line, you were going to be increasingly less likely to say something as he escalated his behavior.

I think this also explains why he behaved around adults and some random peers. (That one friend of Kam's said Bryer never did anything weird around him. I think that was intentional and, for whatever reason, Bryer didn't think it would go over well.)

All MOO

Totally agree. If someone actually had intervened, I'm sure he would have been furious.

 

[Francie Starr]

I don't even know what I'm trying to say it just stood out to me. Clearly these two had some kind of Folie a Deux/ suicide pact.

https://www.depressionalliance.org/folie-a-deux/

Oh my. For some peculiar reason it never dawned on me before that this phenomenon, more commonly associated with cults, could link just two persons in a shared delusional version of "reality".

If these two were, in fact, responsible for the awful mayhem of which they're accused, could this be the underlying cause and the reason why this case has been so confounding?

 

[Zella]

The likelihood of that depends on how planned they were, and if the plan was originally murder or if it was just robbery or something. It seems like the logistics of filming an ambush murder would be difficult though. I still kind of hope they filmed something on the run or a statement. I mean, it's 2019, the news is full of footage of mass violence, could have been an influence.



Well, if they streamed it, it would be a lot easier for them to get caught. I think the evidence of how they were acting indicates they were trying to get away.

That's another thing that makes me think it wasn't planned to be a murder spree, at least not as some kind of elaborate suicide thing for fame. You would think if so, this being the age of social media, they might have more of an online presence, more Taylor-Swift-esque murdery Easter eggs in their posts, more playing up of the "killer BFFs" thing with public posts between them. Kam especially barely had any presence at all. There's only one picture of them together at all (the butterflies one). There's hardly any pictures of Kam available at all, and most of the ones of Bryer came from friends and family. I mean usually these "fame" killers, like Columbine, Elliott Rodger, etc. have videos or something.

I do hope they filmed a statement at some point on the run. I see that as being more likely than them writing a suicide note.

Their lack of a significant online presence sort of surprised me, as well, as does the relatively limited interaction they had with each other publicly on social media.

I get neither of them being very active on Facebook because my understanding is that's less popular with their age group than it is with mine. But from the teens I know, Instagram tends to be quite popular. They both had accounts but just didn't post much that was visible. I know Snapchat is big, too, but I have never seen any information on if they used it and not sure stuff would be recoverable from there, anyway. Never heard about Twitter accounts for them either. My assumption is Steam was more their social media avenue, just as much as it was a gaming site for them.

 

[Optics]

There are no known issues with Kam and / or his parents. Wild speculation abounds.
Kam's family has remained respectful of the difficult situations facing families.

Their (Kam's family) silence is not comfortable. I feel they have more they are covering up than anything that has been publicized about Bryer. I don't know how you perceive it as 'respectful'. In my view it's not the 'open book' of Bryer that everyone has come to know, but rather the deathly silence of the equally if not more greater other half of the two killers. Silence isn't always golden.

 

[Arizona 123]

The Dodge had them. Can’t remember pictures for the RAV 4 though.

The only photos I've seen of the truck with plates were from before it burned. It's hard to tell from the photoes I've seen, but the video of the truck shows it clearly; no rear plate.

I can't figure out how to link the vid directly (sorry) but it's on the following page, about the 5th vid down (it's got a picture of the truck as the start image).
Former classmates of northern B.C. murder suspect say he would describe killing himself, others

As for the Rav4, I'll include a pic showing the rear.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/...e.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_225/image.jpg