Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #15

[otto]

The sleeping bag easily could have floated there. It doesn't mean Bryer and Kam were at Port Nelson.

And apparently the RCMP were going by helicopter to check out that sleeping bag when they spotted the boat.

"They were on their way to Port Nelson to find the sleeping bag and that's when they [spotted] got the boat," Sawchuk said.

https://vaaju.com/canada/how-a-shar...iggered-a-search-that-ended-the-rcmp-manhunt/

Their personal belonging were on the shore of the Nelson River 4km upstream of the boat, and we are to believe that a sleeping bag 111 downstream is related?

 

[Zella]

Their silence is not comfortable. I feel they have more there are covering up than anything about Bryer. I don't know how you perceive it as 'respectful'. In my view it's not the 'open book' of Bryer that everyone has come to know, but rather the deathly silence of the equally if not more greater other half of the two killers. Silence isn't always golden.

I can't blame the McLeods for their silence anymore than I don't blame Bryer's mom for being quiet.

Keith McLeod released a brief statement early when Kam was first declared a suspect, just as Bryer's mom also released a brief letter, and they have stayed out of it otherwise. To me, that's just as much their right to grieve and grapple with this privately as it is Bryer's dad's to be more public in his grief and attempts to understand what happened.

As I've noted on here before: what a horrible roller-coaster of emotions to go through as you process your child being missing, your child being a homicide suspect, your child being an internationally notorious fugitive, your child killing himself and never answering why for the heartache, confusion, and mayhem left in his wake.

I think they know anything they say will be scrutinized relentlessly, and I honestly don't blame them for not wanting to wade into the fray. It is possible the McLeods are concerned because they are the source of the weapons, but even then, I don't see anything nefarious in their decision to be quiet.

All MOO.

 

[otto]

Their (Kam's family) silence is not comfortable. I feel they have more they are covering up than anything that has been publicized about Bryer. I don't know how you perceive it as 'respectful'. In my view it's not the 'open book' of Bryer that everyone has come to know, but rather the deathly silence of the equally if not more greater other half of the two killers. Silence isn't always golden.

There's that fine line between USA free speech right to know gory details and Canada respecting the autonomy of others. I understand that his is a totally off the wall concept for people who live South of the border - that respecting individuals is more important than a collective desire for gory details.

 

[Zella]

As an addendum: if Kam got weapons from his family, in the wake of how Bryer's father was treated for his admission for buying his son an Airsoft rifle, which almost assuredly was not used in the crimes, I don't blame them at all for being quiet. They will be demonized and crucified, no matter what they have done or what they say.

 

[mtnstream]

Yes.
Bryer told his grandmother he was going to Whitehorse.
Bryer to his father he was going to Alberta.
What did Kam tell his parents?

Didn't Kam tells his folks he was going to Whitehorse? Then a some days later, told his folks they were going to Alberta, as they didn't find work in Whitehorse.

 

[scrappinkat]

I also note that there's no sign of a license plate on any of the pictures I';ve seen of the burned vehicles. License plates tend to be attached (rear, anyway) with steel screws or bolts, so I would not expect them to come off from a vehicle fire.
​

Sorry can’t remember who posted this and I had wanted to get back to it. It’s most likely the license plates of the burned vehicles were on but melted away due to the heat of the fire. (They are mostly aluminum aren’t they? )

 

[Seattle1]

I had to giggle at "The Legend of Whitehorse - where boys become men". That seriously sounds like a movie caption or book title lol, good one!

I went to Whitehorse to visit a friend many years ago. Great place. I recall lots of live music (no DJ music which was huge at the time) in every bar/pub and everyone I met shook my hand. It didn't seem like a busy city, it had a nice, warm small town feel to it from what I remember. I don't know much about the actual job sector BUT I do know Vancouver Island is hopping for new construction so they didn't have to leave.

It sounds like you experienced what the legendary men built and left behind!

I've not been for years but I'll never forget the kindness of a stranger that relined my sorrel boots for me just as I realized I was going to miss the Skagway ferry.

 

[mtnstream]

Their personal belonging were on the shore of the Nelson River 4km upstream of the boat, and we are to believe that a sleeping bag 111 downstream is related?

When Nelson River guide saw the sleeping bag, caught in willows, he was suspicious and reported it to RCMP. They flew over the river, and saw the boat. The bodies were found about 1 km, upstream from where boat was found.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-homicide-suspects-autopsy-update-1.5243741

 

[Arizona 123]

Crime stoppers Port Alberni has a reported theft of two guns. The estimated dates of the theft are a week after they would have left P.A. but I’m open to those dates being off because the owners didn’t report/discover till the 22nd of July. Just something to tuck away.

On July 22nd, 2019 Port Alberni RCMP received a report that 2 shotguns were stolen from a residence in the 4800 block of David St between July 18th and 21st. The investigation indicates that a break and enter occurred and is being activbely examined. Port Alberni detachment is requesting any information regarding this incident or the location of the shotguns.

More Info: Port Alberni File # File #2019-7788

Crimes of the Week | Alberni Valley Crime Stoppers

Interesting! That wasn't on the site last time I checked, about a week ago, not that I recall anyway.
I wonder if they might have taken a slight liberty with the date range, in order to help sort the wheat from the chaff on any tips? There was a murder a few years ago in central BC where the found the burned-out truck of the victims off a logging road, and didn't mention there was a bullet hole in it. That omission led to finding the killer via one of the tips standing out.

A couple of threads back, I posted something I'd spotted on that Alberni Valley Crimestoppers website (I'd been wondering if the suspects had committed crimes in the area, perhaps prompting their sudden departure from home).
File #2019-3033 | Alberni Valley Crime Stoppers
The picture of the suspect, IMHO (and I'm not good at recognizing people) reminded me of Kam McLeod. I know the report of the red sedan driven by an accomplice raises some issues (Bryer being reportedly unable to drive) but, driving an automatic on quiet streets is incredibly easy (I did that just fine on my first lesson when I was 15) so I'm having trouble believing Breyer was totally incapable of driving. Or, it might have been someone else involved. (or more likely still, I'm wrong and this has nothing to do with the suspects).

 

[otto]

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you're saying, and I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth that I didn't say. I've never said anything about Kam's mom because she has never said anything about the case, but I think she has the same right to grieve privately, as her husband and Bryer's mom have.

Words in mouth - unintended. Apologies
This has nothing to do with Breyer's mother or father. His father is a mess, his mother is quiet. Kam's mother is quiet. Kam's father is probably a mess in private.

The families of the victims are suffering, but so are the families of the suspects. Something went really wrong in this big picture, much bigger than mom and dad and the school.

A 24, 23, 19, and 18 were standing on the Alaska highway on July 14 after 11:30PM. What happened next? Why did the younger two shoot the older two?

 

[Zella]

Words in mouth - unintended. Apologies
This has nothing to do with Breyer's mother or father. His father is a mess, his mother is quiet. Kam's mother is quiet. Kam's father is probably a mess in private.

The families of the victims are suffering, but so are the families of the suspects. Something went really wrong in this big picture, much bigger than mom and dad and the school.

A 24, 23, 19, and 18 were standing on the Alaska highway on July 14 after 11:30PM. What happened next? Why did the younger two shoot the older two?

Thank you for your apology, Otto. I appreciate it.

I agree with you about the suspects' families also suffering, what happened not being their fault, and them choosing to deal with the situation however they choose.

 

[otto]

When Nelson River guide saw the sleeping bag, caught in willows, he was suspicious and reported it to RCMP. They flew over the river, and saw the boat. The bodies were found about 1 km, upstream from where boat was found.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-homicide-suspects-autopsy-update-1.5243741

That's correct. A man who saw a sleeping bag in Port Nelson came forward after the bodies were found to attempt to claim credit for leading RCMP to the bodies. He's quite a hero with the Globe and Mail newspaper.

The bodies were found 1 km from the "personal items" and the Mop and Pail newspaper has taken creative licence to make stuff up - as usual - pretending that the sleeping bag is one of the personal items. Daily Mail, Globe and Mail, tabloid.

 

[mtnstream]

https://www.depressionalliance.org/folie-a-deux/

Oh my. For some peculiar reason it never dawned on me before that this phenomenon, more commonly associated with cults, could link just two persons in a shared delusional version of "reality".

If these two were, in fact, responsible for the awful mayhem of which they're accused, could this be the underlying cause and the reason why this case has been so confounding?

Wow! Alot of that describes the possible dynamics between these suspects.

 

[otto]

Thank you for your apology, Otto. I appreciate it.

I agree with you about the suspects' families also suffering, what happened not being their fault, and them choosing to deal with the situation however they choose.

Researchers are concerned about the social, neurological, and emotional relationship between children/teens and their digital environment. I think pandora's box cannot be closed.

 

[Arizona 123]

I also note that there's no sign of a license plate on any of the pictures I';ve seen of the burned vehicles. License plates tend to be attached (rear, anyway) with steel screws or bolts, so I would not expect them to come off from a vehicle fire.
​

Sorry can’t remember who posted this and I had wanted to get back to it. It’s most likely the license plates of the burned vehicles were on but melted away due to the heat of the fire. (They are mostly aluminum aren’t they? )

That was me, and you raise a VERY good point! If indeed the plates were aluminum, then... hrmmm. Aluminum can not only melt, it can also burn in a fire. It can also explode when molten if it contacts water. Aluminum melts at about 1200 degrees (F). Car fires can get hotter, and a quick google says gasoline fires run about 1500F. I also found a couple of pics of burned out cars from accidents, where the plate is no longer there (and I can't see removing it intentionally being likely).

Thus, I think you have it right; if the plates were there, they burned. Thanks for replying!! (I always like finding out when I'm wrong - that way, I learn something!).

 

[otto]

That was me, and you raise a VERY good point! If indeed the plates were aluminum, then... hrmmm. Aluminum can not only melt, it can also burn in a fire. It can also explode when molten if it contacts water. Aluminum melts at about 1200 degrees (F). Car fires can get hotter, and a quick google says gasoline fires run about 1500F. I also found a couple of pics of burned out cars from accidents, where the plate is no longer there (and I can't see removing it intentionally being likely).

Thus, I think you have it right; if the plates were there, they burned. Thanks for replying!! (I always like finding out when I'm wrong - that way, I learn something!).

Licence plates on the truck were too burned to read, but the VIN was intact?
Doubtful.

 

[FactFinder3000]

Their personal belonging were on the shore of the Nelson River 4km upstream of the boat, and we are to believe that a sleeping bag 111 downstream is related?

So you're saying it was ridiculous of the river guide and RCMP to think it might be related?

It would only take one day at 4.5 km/h for the sleeping bag to travel 111 km.

 

[otto]

Vehicle licence plates are the first point of contact between a vehicle and the police. Police will radio-in a vehicle licence plate to identify the driver. That was not possible with the 1986 blue van on highway 97, but it was possible with the camper truck and the Rav4.

 

[MassGuy]

There's that fine line between USA free speech right to know gory details and Canada respecting the autonomy of others. I understand that his is a totally off the wall concept for people who live South of the border - that respecting individuals is more important than a collective desire for gory details.

It’s a desire for full and complete transparency from our government, specifically law enforcement.

It has nothing to do with “gory details.”

Privacy is one thing, and it is maintained in private matters that don’t involve the public interest.

For instance, I can’t request an autopsy report of someone who isn’t related to me.

When a crime like this occurs, the public demands answers, as this affected the public at large.

It is the duty of public officials to provide these answers in due course, and as the investigation allows.

It is important to understand what happened, how it happened, and why it happened.

That requires details.

 

[otto]

So you're saying it was ridiculous of the river guide and RCMP to think it might be related?

It would only take one day at 4.5 km/h for the sleeping bag to travel 111 km.

How did you come up with a water flow rate of 4.5 km/hr?