Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #15

[Optics]

The sleeping bag is significant in the game because it apparently is some kind of symbol or a signal that the game is over. The sleeping bag is supposed to represent an opportunity to start the game anew and "respawn" as it's referred to in the game.

@whiterhino just to let you know the locals in Cold Lake and others have been saying that man has been embellishing the story every time he's spoken about it. His original statement of helping the guys to what he said a few days ago are vastly different.

 

[mtnstream]

I'm a little puzzled about Lucas and the van ownership too. In British Columbia we don't have private vehicle insurance we have a government corporation called ICBC. When you buy a vehicle you must register it at an ICBC office with transfer papers and buy insurance for the vehicle. I recall there was some discussion back then we had about his van had Alberta license plates. That has still puzzled me, because if Lucas bought it from the Rancher, I don't know why he would have been driving it with Alberta plates and not BC. The only way I can think of him having Alberta plates would have been to drive into Alberta and buy insurance there, but the van would have had to have a certified maintenance check.

I thought Lucas bought it from one of the ranch owners, shortly before their trip? Maybe it's less expensive to register (and insure) a vehicle in Alberta, compared to BC?

Also, here in the Southwest, sometimes it takes our DMV's a few weeks to get info into the systems - that's why it's important to have your license, registration, and insurance with you while driving.

We also have county/city differences with regards to vehicle inspection and smog/pollution controls. For instance: it's cheaper to register and insure a vehicle in some outlying communities (no extra inspection fee!) than in the larger cities. Some people take advantage of this.

 

[Optics]

Impossible. Most likely old plate, no insurance.

The vehicle was not legally registered to Lucas. He had to get insurance in order to get a licence plate and register the vehicle. If the vehicle was not connected to him by licence plate or VIN, it's unlikely that he had insurance.

Yes, and that is a whole other issue, because he would have been charged hugely and could not move the van further if police had stopped him without insurance, it's literally a zero tolerance in BC to drive without insurance and very illegal.

 

[Optics]

Van licence plate and VIN connects to someone. We don't know who that was, but it would have come out during trial.

Lucas Fowler owned the van.

maybe on a handshake, but if he bought it legally from the Ranch boss, as I said earlier he could not drive it until he registered the transfer papers and paid insurance on it.

 

[srper2]

He bought the van at the ranch. That does not mean he bought it from the ranch owner.

He purchased the van "from the ranch", I don't know how many people own "the ranch", I am concerned that this seems to be going toward the path of searching for dirt on a murder victim.....

 

[Optics]

I thought Lucas bought it from one of the ranch owners, shortly before their trip? Maybe it's less expensive to register (and insure) a vehicle in Alberta, compared to BC?

I don't feel he did that because he and Chynna would have had to cross into Alberta and make an appointment for an inspection at a certified place......and oh gosh you just can't do it instantly it would have taken a few days.

 

[mtnstream]

maybe on a handshake, but if he bought it legally from the Ranch boss, as I said earlier he could not drive it until he registered the transfer papers and paid insurance on it.

So, in Canada, what if you borrow a relatives, or roomates car, can it be legally driven by someone else besides the legal owner?

 

[ZoriahNZ]

Omg I had to have a good laugh at the reference to Minecraft. I should think that the vast majority of people who have played that game are not potential spree murderers. My son and I had a hilarious time building crap on it. Very family friendly game. Mind you, we avoided the online aspect.

 

[scrappinkat]

the ranch owners moved to BC in 2013. The van was auctioned in 2018 in Alberta.

It doesn't make sense that the van did not legally track to Lucas. Who did he give money to when buying the van and why were the plates not updated?

The owners of the ranch still had some dealings in Alberta, plus they have another ranch near Ryecroft Alberta. It’s likely Mr Weder bought it at auction and used it only on his private property for a little while and it’s sat there parked until Lucas asked him about buying it. Maybe he worked in exchange for ownership? At any rate it seems proper steps weren’t taken regarding inspection, registration or insurance.

 

[mtnstream]

Omg I had to have a good laugh at the reference to Minecraft. I should think that the vast majority of people who have played that game are not potential spree murderers. My son and I had a hilarious time building crap on it. Very family friendly game. Mind you, we avoided the online aspect.

Lol, just shows how out of the loop I am with gaming I definitely am not slagging on gaming in general.

 

[scrappinkat]

So, in Canada, what if you borrow a relatives, or roomates car, can it be legally driven by someone else besides the legal owner?

Yes as long as they have a drivers license. The problem is insurance. Depends on the owners insurance. Mine was set for me only. My car could be driven by anyone else legally but in an accident my insurance would be void if I wasn’t the one driving. The rules are changing right about now and next year when I renew I will have to list everyone that I might allow driving my car. In an accident if a person isn’t listed again I could be refused insurance. There might be an option to pay a $50 fee and skip the listing of drivers but I’m not sure that’s going to be implemented or not.

 

[srper2]

Yes, and that is a whole other issue, because he would have been charged hugely and could not move the van further if police had stopped him without insurance, it's literally a zero tolerance in BC to drive without insurance and very illegal.

D

 

[Optics]

Did the van have current insurance on it?? Or was it being driven with an old plate only, no insurance?

Unless Lucas Fowler had insurance papers in his own name from Alberta and registration papers saying he owned the van, then he was driving the van illegally. In order for him to own the van when he bought it, its mandatory he take transfer papers to ICBC register how much he paid for it etc etc and buy BC insurance for it. (which means BC license plates) Our provincial govt does not cut you any slack on that.

 

[whiterhino]

As someone who enjoys and plays a lot of survival type video games, I don't think the sleeping bag is of any particular significance to the two suspects apart from the obvious uses for it.

In games like The Forest, Stranded Deep, The Long Dark or Green Hell a sleeping bag or camping shelter is most often the save or respawn point (the place you start over from should you perish in game). It's a common mechanic.

Basically it's usually an accomplishment to create shelter and be able to sleep and survive another night in these types of games, one of the first priorities. Rust is a more extreme example because of the multiplayer aspect which can foster griefing, bullying/misogynistic behavior and harassment. I do enjoy the single player versions, though, and I'm a middle-aged mom who could not fire a gun if her life depended on it. It's lots of fun pitting myself against the elements.

I think it's pretty far fetched to think any of these games teach actual survival skills, however, or even encourage a survivalist mentality. And being good at clicking a mouse in a timely manner does not make one knowledgeable about handling guns. I've always found those kinds of assumptions (that surface in the media) rather absurd being an avid gamer myself. Just like watching a Rambo or Terminator movie doesn't automatically give you combat skills. If the two young men broke with reality it's because, imo, one or both of them was predisposed to do so and had underlying mental issues.

I am no fan of Rust because of the nasty online culture surrounding it, but I'm doubtful it plays much of a part in the larger narrative. In terms of establishing motive for the killings and so on.

I'm going with two angry young suicidal men, who felt they weren't given the opportunities they felt entitled to. Raging at societal norms, wanting to give a final "eff you" to the rest of us.

JMOO.

To be clear, I'm not over here trying to blame video games!

I get that the whole restarting at a sleeping bag thing is part of the game where you go back to the start with some basic tools.

But considering they both committed suicide, I'm wondering if they didn't think "game over, start a new life" or something?

As I had said previously, I believe they had some kind of folie a deux. Gaming just helped to facilitate and inspire. I don't think this was solely a pact between two suicidal teenagers though. Jmo.

 

[Optics]

it's ok, the police would have taken 4 hours to get there, so if the van hadn't broken down, sounds like there was really no worry about seeing police.

Truth is had the police been driving by and stopped to check what's wrong - they would have asked for Lucas' insurance papers and drivers license. If he didn't have the proper papers they would not have let them move the van anywhere.

 

[Optics]

Yes as long as they have a drivers license. The problem is insurance. Depends on the owners insurance. Mine was set for me only. My car could be driven by anyone else legally but in an accident my insurance would be void if I wasn’t the one driving. The rules are changing right about now and next year when I renew I will have to list everyone that I might allow driving my car. In an accident if a person isn’t listed again I could be refused insurance. There might be an option to pay a $50 fee and skip the listing of drivers but I’m not sure that’s going to be implemented or not.

Yes we just reinsured both our vehicles and it's exactly as you say

 

[whiterhino]

@whiterhino just to let you know the locals in Cold Lake and others have been saying that man has been embellishing the story every time he's spoken about it. His original statement of helping the guys to what he said a few days ago are vastly different.

Gotcha, thanks! Between the 14 other threads and so many news media reports it's hard to know who is who and what the facts are.

My whole thing was just how it seemed weirdly coincidental Imo that there were several mentions of a sleeping bag and then when you read about how Rust is played, it seemed a bit eerie to me.

Obviously this is not scientific at all, just a very bizarre coincidence.

 

[mtnstream]

Yes as long as they have a drivers license. The problem is insurance. Depends on the owners insurance. Mine was set for me only. My car could be driven by anyone else legally but in an accident my insurance would be void if I wasn’t the one driving. The rules are changing right about now and next year when I renew I will have to list everyone that I might allow driving my car. In an accident if a person isn’t listed again I could be refused insurance. There might be an option to pay a $50 fee and skip the listing of drivers but I’m not sure that’s going to be implemented or not.

Ok, thank you, that clears that up for me. OT: I have full coverage on my vehicle, as does my boss, on all his vehicles, because we frequently use any of them for work, and want to make sure everyone is covered no matter who is driving. Perhaps the van from the ranch had insurance for all workers, as any ranch hand may have needed to drive it?

 

[mrjitty]

So with two firearms recovered and death by suicide confirmed, things are beginning to look a lot clearer.

Difficult case for LE when you have a two perps pulling a double homicide out of the blue on strangers on the road.

 

[ZoriahNZ]

I was trying to explain that dying and spawning is a common occurrence in most games, but in survival games it's even more common since the point of it is to survive as long as you can against tough odds. The sleeping bag/shelter mechanic is ubiquitous. You could die ten times in a session. It's just a way to save your progress and not lose all of your items.

I do think that in general the media we consume can influence societal attitudes. Advertising works, after all. TV, films, literature and videogames can have a cultural impact.

But also keep in mind that videogames are regulated in the same way films are. At least they are in my country. Some games are age restricted due to mature themes, violence, language and other content not appropriate for kids. It's against the law to sell or supply such games - like GTA -to minors much in the same vein of liquor laws. There's a whole classified rating system.

I presume Canada and the U.S. are similar. If young impressionable kids are getting hold of and playing restricted titles, that's a parental supervision issue that needs to be looked at, not the fault of the game developers. MOO