Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #15

[scrappinkat]

I know a few adults who play Minecraft, and they are...

Me But when I tried to build my real life campsite to recreate the one from Minecraft I realized that it was awfully difficult to chop wood into uniform 8 bit blocks lol Kids and I used to build crazy things in Minecraft. Thanks for the memory trip!

 

[Optics]

I can't blame the McLeods for their silence anymore than I don't blame Bryer's mom for being quiet.

Keith McLeod released a brief statement early when Kam was first declared a suspect, just as Bryer's mom also released a brief letter, and they have stayed out of it otherwise. To me, that's just as much their right to grieve and grapple with this privately as it is Bryer's dad's to be more public in his grief and attempts to understand what happened.

Yes Zella, I know he did. (and I'm sure you know I know he did lol). I think I'm really have trouble wrapping my head around why people - and that includes us - are spending volumes of time talking about Bryer and not giving that equal attention to Kam. Bryer is no more guilty than Kam. I know, I know we don't have much on Kam, but it just seems everywhere in MSM Kam's name gets mentioned, someone whoever says 'well his parents are not saying anything' then everyone returns to I guess what's become the 'familiar, known topic' of Bryer- that is rehash of his swastika, his airsoft, his camo, etc etc. and Kam gets tucked back into that quiet corner. Even when a topic of conversation is about Kam, inevitably the topic will somehow find its way back to Bryer. I am troubled by it - maybe if Bryer's family shut down all his social media accounts as did the Mcleods, we all wouldn't be rehashing what Bryer did.

 

[otto]

The tourists' van was not burned. There was no mystery about the VIN or licence plate.

The camper truck VIN or licence plate was most likely registered to Kam's family, so the teens were easy to identify. The Rav4 was also easy to connect to the registered owner

 

[mtnstream]

The person I was referring to that spotted the sleeping bag was not the boater from the Nelson, it was the guy who helped them pull out the Rav when it got stuck.

How many sleeping bag "sightings" have there been?

The reason I find this significant as well as mentioning Folie a Deux and the game Rust is the fact that Rust is a survivalist game. Does anyone know if they played this game?

The sleeping bag is significant in the game because it apparently is some kind of symbol or a signal that the game is over. The sleeping bag is supposed to represent an opportunity to start the game anew and "respawn" as it's referred to in the game.

Perhaps they thought they were in a video game? Something about this reminds me of Magnotta.

Both played Rust, Bryer logged more hours, but Kam was listed as an Admin. I checked Steam, a few days after they had gone missing.

In reading the game description, I agree, there are a number of symbolic things that the suspects could have been acting out. Would be very interesting to hear a psychologist and sociologist thoughts on this case. Maybe we will hear that in the future.

 

[scrappinkat]

Van licence plate and VIN connects to someone. We don't know who that was, but it would have come out during trial.

Lucas Fowler owned the van.

He might have owned it but it doesn’t sound like he transferred registration to his name, for whatever reason. I don’t know how he could have insured it then. Since it was his bosses van and he bought it off him I’m assuming it was insured in the bosses name.

 

[Optics]

That's correct. A man who saw a sleeping bag in Port Nelson came forward after the bodies were found to attempt to claim credit for leading RCMP to the bodies. He's quite a hero with the Globe and Mail newspaper.

@otto That was the boat adventure tour guide wasn't it?

 

[otto]

He might have owned it but it doesn’t sound like he transferred registration to his name, for whatever reason. I don’t know how he could have insured it then. Since it was his bosses van and he bought it off him I’m assuming it was insured in the bosses name.

There in lies the problem.
There was no connection between Lucas Fowler, his van, and the ranch.

 

[otto]

@otto That was the boat adventure tour guide wasn't it?

It was. An adventure tour guide came forward after the bodies were discovered and claimed credit for the discovery based on reporting something 111 km from the bodies.

 

[Optics]

There in lies the problem.
There was no connection between Lucas Fowler, his van, and the ranch.

I'm a little puzzled about Lucas and the van ownership too. In British Columbia we don't have private vehicle insurance we have a government corporation called ICBC. When you buy a vehicle you must register it at an ICBC office with transfer papers and buy insurance for the vehicle. I recall there was some discussion back then we had about his van had Alberta license plates. That has still puzzled me, because if Lucas bought it from the Rancher, I don't know why he would have been driving it with Alberta plates and not BC. The only way I can think of him having Alberta plates would have been to drive into Alberta and buy insurance there, but the van would have had to have a certified maintenance check.

 

[otto]

It was also questioned whether the Bear Clan thought they might swoop in and solve the mystery within 30 minutes of boots on the ground - everyone was eager to take credit for finding the suspects. In the beginning, it looked very promising that the Bear Clan has the scoop.

 

[scrappinkat]

There in lies the problem.
There was no connection between Lucas Fowler, his van, and the ranch.

Assuming his boss insured it could the police not have called the ranch and said “hi it’s so and so from the RCZmP detachment and we have a problem with an old blue van here, can I speak to the owner of the van?” At which point the ranch owner should have been able to explain the situation with the van.

 

[Zella]

Yes Zella, I know he did. (and I'm sure you know I know he did lol). I think I'm really have trouble wrapping my head around why people - and that includes us - are spending volumes of time talking about Bryer and not giving that equal attention to Kam. Bryer is no more guilty than Kam. I know, I know we don't have much on Kam, but it just seems everywhere in MSM Kam's name gets mentioned, someone whoever says 'well his parents are not saying anything' then everyone returns to I guess what's become the 'familiar, known topic' of Bryer- that is rehash of his swastika, his airsoft, his camo, etc etc. and Kam gets tucked back into that quiet corner. Even when a topic of conversation is about Kam, inevitably the topic will somehow find its way back to Bryer. I am troubled by it - maybe if Bryer's family shut down all his social media accounts as did the Mcleods, we all wouldn't be rehashing what Bryer did.

I think it is hard to talk about either of them without talking about the other, and there is simply more information out there on Bryer. That has nothing to do with the McLeod family closing social media accounts. Bryer's father has been vocal in sharing information about his son, and Bryer's friends, former friends, and classmates have also been vocal in talking about him.

Comparatively speaking, what has been shared about Kam (he was close to Bryer and most people liked his personality) is not much to work with compared to Bryer snorting Ritalin, threatening to kill his classmates, etc. I really don't think anyone is giving Kam a free pass on any of this or thinks he is less guilty or that the lack of info is through any efforts by Kam's family--it is just we have less material to work with because he apparently manifested fewer red flags. I think he hid his dark side well, not that he didnt have one.

 

[otto]

I'm a little puzzled about Lucas and the van ownership too. In British Columbia we don't have private vehicle insurance we have a government corporation called ICBC. When you buy a vehicle you must register it at an ICBC office with transfer papers and buy insurance for the vehicle. I recall there was some discussion back then we had about his van had Alberta license plates. That has still puzzled me, because if Lucas bought it from the Rancher, I don't know why he would have been driving it with Alberta plates and not BC

Lucas owned the van. He worked and lived in BC for 6 months prior to his Alaska adventure. He bought the van at the ranch, but the ranch owners moved to BC in 2013. The van was auctioned in 2018 in Alberta.

It doesn't make sense that the van did not legally track to Lucas. Who did he give money to when buying the van and why were the plates not updated?

 

[scrappinkat]

I'm a little puzzled about Lucas and the van ownership too. In British Columbia we don't have private vehicle insurance we have a government corporation called ICBC. When you buy a vehicle you must register it at an ICBC office with transfer papers and buy insurance for the vehicle. I recall there was some discussion back then we had about his van had Alberta license plates. That has still puzzled me, because if Lucas bought it from the Rancher, I don't know why he would have been driving it with Alberta plates and not BC. The only way I can think of him having Alberta plates would have been to drive into Alberta and buy insurance there, but the van would have had to have a certified maintenance check.

Did the van have current insurance on it?? Or was it being driven with an old plate only, no insurance?

 

[otto]

Assuming his boss insured it could the police not have called the ranch and said “hi it’s so and so from the RCZmP detachment and we have a problem with an old blue van here, can I speak to the owner of the van?” At which point the ranch owner should have been able to explain the situation with the van.

Impossible. His boss, the ranch owner, moved from Alberta to BC in 2013. The van was auctioned in Alberta in June 2018. Lucas arrived in BC in Feb 2019. Who did he buy the van from, who didn't take the plates off a sold vehicle?

 

[srper2]

There in lies the problem.
There was no connection between Lucas Fowler, his van, and the ranch.

I thought all this was hashed over for many long hour days ago in a previous thread?

 

[srper2]

Impossible. His boss, the ranch owner, moved from Alberta to BC in 2013. The van was auctioned in Alberta in June 2018. Lucas arrived in BC in Feb 2019. Who did he buy the van from, who didn't take the plates off a sold vehicle?

He purchased the van off his boss. You can check all the details in threads from days back, but I am not sure which ones! Here is a link to one of multiple news reports that say he purchased it from the ranch where he had been working
https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-...-australian-lucas-fowler-20190723-p529qe.html

 

[ZoriahNZ]

The person I was referring to that spotted the sleeping bag was not the boater from the Nelson, it was the guy who helped them pull out the Rav when it got stuck.

How many sleeping bag "sightings" have there been?

The reason I find this significant as well as mentioning Folie a Deux and the game Rust is the fact that Rust is a survivalist game. Does anyone know if they played this game?

The sleeping bag is significant in the game because it apparently is some kind of symbol or a signal that the game is over. The sleeping bag is supposed to represent an opportunity to start the game anew and "respawn" as it's referred to in the game.

Perhaps they thought they were in a video game? Something about this reminds me of Magnotta.

As someone who enjoys and plays a lot of survival type video games, I don't think the sleeping bag is of any particular significance to the two suspects apart from the obvious uses for it.

In games like The Forest, Stranded Deep, The Long Dark or Green Hell a sleeping bag or camping shelter is most often the save or respawn point (the place you start over from should you perish in game). It's a common mechanic.

Basically it's usually an accomplishment to create shelter and be able to sleep and survive another night in these types of games, one of the first priorities. Rust is a more extreme example because of the multiplayer aspect which can foster griefing, bullying/misogynistic behavior and harassment. I do enjoy the single player versions, though, and I'm a middle-aged mom who could not fire a gun if her life depended on it. It's lots of fun pitting myself against the elements.

I think it's pretty far fetched to think any of these games teach actual survival skills, however, or even encourage a survivalist mentality. And being good at clicking a mouse in a timely manner does not make one knowledgeable about handling guns. I've always found those kinds of assumptions (that surface in the media) rather absurd being an avid gamer myself. Just like watching a Rambo or Terminator movie doesn't automatically give you combat skills. If the two young men broke with reality it's because, imo, one or both of them was predisposed to do so and had underlying mental issues.

I am no fan of Rust because of the nasty online culture surrounding it, but I'm doubtful it plays much of a part in the larger narrative. In terms of establishing motive for the killings and so on.

I'm going with two angry young suicidal men, who felt they weren't given the opportunities they felt entitled to. Raging at societal norms, wanting to give a final "eff you" to the rest of us.

JMOO.

 

[otto]

Did the van have current insurance on it?? Or was it being driven with an old plate only, no insurance?

Impossible. Most likely old plate, no insurance.

The vehicle was not legally registered to Lucas. He had to get insurance in order to get a licence plate and register the vehicle. If the vehicle was not connected to him by licence plate or VIN, it's unlikely that he had insurance.

 

[otto]

He purchased the van off his boss. You can check all the details in threads from days back

He bought the van at the ranch. That does not mean he bought it from the ranch owner.