Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #15

[Link Haze]

Has AS become a punching bag?

AS is not a murderer and he is free to write or say whatever he wants. Good grief, he should be left alone.

 

[minorone]

Their (Kam's family) silence is not comfortable. I feel they have more they are covering up than anything that has been publicized about Bryer. I don't know how you perceive it as 'respectful'. In my view it's not the 'open book' of Bryer that everyone has come to know, but rather the deathly silence of the equally if not more greater other half of the two killers. Silence isn't always golden.

When you have a family member who is involved in a horrendous crime, that leaves other non-criminal family members with some very tough choices to make. Depending on the circumstances, they could be liable and any lawyer will tell you to not speak to the media.

Most people involved in this situation would contact an experienced criminal defense attorney and follow the advice they are given. They would undoubtedly be advised to cooperate with LE and help with the investigation.

The family must be devastated and I can only imagine the emotional fallout from finding out your child is involved such unspeakable crimes. The family also no doubt loves him and has very extremely mixed emotions & are just trying to cope day to day.

I have empathy for them and cannot imagine how I would deal with the aftermath in this situation.

 

[Jealoushe]

I thought Lucas bought it from one of the ranch owners, shortly before their trip? Maybe it's less expensive to register (and insure) a vehicle in Alberta, compared to BC?

Also, here in the Southwest, sometimes it takes our DMV's a few weeks to get info into the systems - that's why it's important to have your license, registration, and insurance with you while driving.

We also have county/city differences with regards to vehicle inspection and smog/pollution controls. For instance: it's cheaper to register and insure a vehicle in some outlying communities (no extra inspection fee!) than in the larger cities. Some people take advantage of this.

In Canada we have an interlinked VIN system, with the insurance companies. So police can now search a VIN and it will pull up whether the vehicle has valid insurance.

So, in Canada, what if you borrow a relatives, or roomates car, can it be legally driven by someone else besides the legal owner?

Yes as long as they have a drivers license. The problem is insurance. Depends on the owners insurance. Mine was set for me only. My car could be driven by anyone else legally but in an accident my insurance would be void if I wasn’t the one driving. The rules are changing right about now and next year when I renew I will have to list everyone that I might allow driving my car. In an accident if a person isn’t listed again I could be refused insurance. There might be an option to pay a $50 fee and skip the listing of drivers but I’m not sure that’s going to be implemented or not.

This is not quite correct. Anyone can operate your vehicle as long as they have a valid drivers license, are 25 and over and qualify. So say, they have 3 convictions, or 2 at fault accidents, they would not qualify and your inusrance company would likely deny the claim. Doesn't matter where the license is from either, it could be from anywhere in the world.

If someone uses the vehicle regularly, and is not listed on the policy, they can also deny the claim. So say your boyfriend/girlfriend moves in, and you don't advise your insurer, he/she commutes to work in your vehicle and has an accident. This is a regular occurance and not a "one off" like someone borrowing your car, it is considered a change in material risk and the insurance company can deny the claim.

All licensed drivers in the household need to be listed on the policy. Whether they are rated for or not depends on whether they have their own insurance.

I am a CIP/CAIB recognized broker

 

[JudgeJudi]

Has AS become a punching bag?

He’s a soft target for the media. He’s homeless, lives in a van, has obvious mental health issues and is absolutely distraught over the loss of his son. Unfortunately he made himself available to the media, for whatever reason, and they’d never miss an opportunity like that to bolster a story that’s getting international attention.

On the other hand, Kam’s family has given a one or two sentence comment. That is their absolute right and I’m not calling them out for that, but we don’t know if there’s more to that family’s history. Kam had friends and came from a totally different socio-economic group, but he obviously had a dark side. Whether he pulled the trigger or stood on the sidelines, he was guilty of taking part in at least one murder, and possibly two more. It's only speculation but it's possible the guns came from his home.

It’s easy to kick a man when he’s down and AS is taking the full brunt of the public’s wrath.

 

[sandbar]

AS is not a murderer and he is free to write or say whatever he wants. Good grief, he should be left alone.

That's what I'm saying. His actions are being scrutinized in a way that seems almost predatory. People want to vilify him, and it's not right.

 

[Pyecraft]

In Canada we have an interlinked VIN system, with the insurance companies. So police can now search a VIN and it will pull up whether the vehicle has valid insurance.





This is not quite correct. Anyone can operate your vehicle as long as they have a valid drivers license, are 25 and over and qualify. So say, they have 3 convictions, or 2 at fault accidents, they would not qualify and your inusrance company would likely deny the claim. Doesn't matter where the license is from either, it could be from anywhere in the world.

If someone uses the vehicle regularly, and is not listed on the policy, they can also deny the claim. So say your boyfriend/girlfriend moves in, and you don't advise your insurer, he/she commutes to work in your vehicle and has an accident. This is a regular occurance and not a "one off" like someone borrowing your car, it is considered a change in material risk and the insurance company can deny the claim.

All licensed drivers in the household need to be listed on the policy. Whether they are rated for or not depends on whether they have their own insurance.

I am a CIP/CAIB recognized broker

As a traveller then, Lucas had no permanent household, can you explain please from your professional standing, how would he qualify for ICBC coverage? You'd think that an Aussie driving licence holder with no permanent Canadian address, bill-of-sale etc, wanting to insure in BC an older, mechanically uncertified, Alberta-registered van might present some problem.

Its background information that seems superfluous, but surely all details are important in any murder crime, and this is particularly horrific. Police gather evidence, courts decide if it is relevant. At this point it only confirms, if needed, that no LE passed the crime scene location from the time it broke down until the discovery of the bodies.

The eye-witnessed, late-night altercation might have been vehicle related. Would be good to know it has been investigated.

 

[Moriarty]

As a traveller then, Lucas had no permanent household, can you explain please from your professional standing, how would he qualify for ICBC coverage? You'd think that an Aussie driving licence holder with no permanent Canadian address, bill-of-sale etc, wanting to insure in BC an older, mechanically uncertified, Alberta-registered van might present some problem.

Its background information that seems superfluous, but surely all details are important in any murder crime, and this is particularly horrific. Police gather evidence, courts decide if it is relevant. At this point it only confirms, if needed, that no LE passed the crime scene location from the time it broke down until the discovery of the bodies.

I agree that while this sort of information does seem superfluous and irrelevant, it might help explain a little bit the mindset of LF on the evening of July 14. If he knew that his vehicle was not properly licensed/registered then he might be less inclined to ask passers-by for help or to call a tow truck/mechanic for fear he would get in trouble, get ticketed/fined, have the van impounded, etc.

Especially knowing that he had some mechanical knowledge, he might have thought to himself, it's getting dark and the van is still not starting, so I'll wait until morning light to try getting it up and running again myself.

JMO

And as I unfortunately discovered as a young man, ignorance of the law does not excuse you. I had a student internship in Ottawa and moved there from Alberta for six months. Towards the end of my stay, I was pulled over for speeding and was told that I should have gotten an Ontario driver's license and registration/plates three months earlier. (Actually...the officer was nice enough to accept ignorance and let me off as long as I registered my car right away...but not for the speeding ticket!).

 

[copkid]

Their (Kam's family) silence is not comfortable. I feel they have more they are covering up than anything that has been publicized about Bryer. I don't know how you perceive it as 'respectful'. In my view it's not the 'open book' of Bryer that everyone has come to know, but rather the deathly silence of the equally if not more greater other half of the two killers. Silence isn't always golden.

It has been said here that KM's parents are well to do and run their own business in PA, so they might already have a family lawyer that handles their business affairs. It is possible their lawyer is advising them.
I feel them being silent is the best position for them to take under the circumstances. Better than running off at the mouth and having something said under such emotional stress come back to bite them later?
JMO

 

[copkid]

Three days after their bodies were found Chynna's passport was found hidden in the van. Prior to that, nothing about the van - not the VIN or the licence plate - connected the vehicle to the owner Lucas Fowler.

Is there a link to back this up @otto?
You have previously posted that the van was registered to Lucas. Has there been information brought forward to dispute Lucas as the registered owner?

 

[NJSleuth91]

<modsnip: quoted post was edited>

I agree, also I am surprised that no video from steam or twitch has been uploaded
these two played video games - amongst this type of gaming comes massive online interaction between players
note:
their gaming accts probably didnt have their real names- but, LE can trace the ISP address to them

Kam apparently had a Youtube channel for game streaming, according to at least one article, but nobody knows the account name or if it was taken down. @Zella posted their Steam accounts before though, and it had some possibly relevant stuff on there (like screenshots of games that maybe showed some similarities to their murder spree).

I think there are probably videos of them out there on the internet, gaming and so on, but the general public has just not found them.

 

[SnooperDuper]

dates and times
what theft

View attachment 198247

View attachment 198248

Here is the correct, accurate map of where the bodies and rowboat were found.

I don't know why there continues to be misinformation on this when media has the real information from LE.

 

[Moriarty]

I want to add, to the doubters out there, that I have absolute confidence we will hear everything that the RCMP has and can share before the end of September.

This isn't just another crime: this story has been picked up from coast to coast to coast and has immense international attention. The Aussie press alone will keep the pressure on for more details to be released.

<modsnip: Politicizing is not allowed.>

EDIT: oops...sorry!

 

[SnooperDuper]

As an addendum: if Kam got weapons from his family, in the wake of how Bryer's father was treated for his admission for buying his son an Airsoft rifle, which almost assuredly was not used in the crimes, I don't blame them at all for being quiet. They will be demonized and crucified, no matter what they have done or what they say.

That the two got their guns from KM's family is a rumour that's caught fire on WS, but I don't think that's the case at all.

I believe that they bought handguns on the black market. It just doesn't make sense to go on a crime spree with long guns like a pair of Elmer Fudds.

People are saying that it's so easy to buy a gun on the black market but that's not the case. You can't go up to someone, even if you know they run guns, and say "Please sir, we would like to buy a pair of handguns." You would be a total heat score: someone that attracts the attention of, or could be working with, LE.

They would need to develop a relationship with someone to the point of trust, and know the street talk that is used to make these arrangements such that even if the LE were listening, the discussion would sound innocent (but very meaningful to the gun dealer and buyers).

I think that's where Steam comes in. I think that's how the connected to people in the black market.

 

[Gina20]

That was the read I got on it too. I don't know if I blame them. I mean, THEIR kid isn't the one taking photos of himself with a gun in his mouth and snorting Ritalin while dressed up like a Hitler Youth. I think both of them were equally messed up, but Kam hid it a lot better. However with Kam doing the driving and never trying to pin the murders on Bryer, and especially if the guns were from his parents, I think at some point they will have to accept this was a team effort.

Of course, the truth that peoples' heads explode from rather than accepting, is that someone can be kind, caring, and considerate at one point, AND also end up going on a murder rampage. In fact there may be a very short transition period between the two. All of us contain multitudes.

I just remembered that a famous prince once wore a Nazi armband as part of a costume. Not directing this at your comment particularly.

Lots of kids now take a gap year. I wonder if this was part of the story they spun. For some, it turns out to be little more than time avoiding adult responsibilities, or "adulting", as they call it.

 

[MistyWaters]

They'd have to be pretty stupid to think that burning a vehicle will make it untraceable. Surely they had seen movies/read books about serial numbers being filed off cars for this purpose. Surely they must have known that torching a car won't melt the serial number off.

Everything we know about their antics fits into the “pretty stupid” category as opposed to “utterly brilliant” IMO.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I believe that they bought handguns on the black market. It just doesn't make sense to go on a crime spree with long guns like a pair of Elmer Fudds.

If you're not trying to take out a bunch of people in a short period of time, and have no other source of guns, it's not much of an obstacle.

I think that's where Steam comes in. I think that's how the connected to people in the black market.

I would say maybe the dark web but I don't know. I know it is laughably easy to buy stuff like heroin, research chemicals, nembutal (often used to commit suicide) etc. off the dark web. But guns, I don't know about, because I feel like that's a) a lot harder to ship, and b) something the authorities would be more concerned about. Plus I really can't imagine these two successfully negotiating the black market. I still think they most likely came from Kam's family or someone else they knew, maybe a friend.

 

[Zella]

That the two got their guns from KM's family is a rumour that's caught fire on WS, but I don't think that's the case at all.

I believe that they bought handguns on the black market. It just doesn't make sense to go on a crime spree with long guns like a pair of Elmer Fudds.

People are saying that it's so easy to buy a gun on the black market but that's not the case. You can't go up to someone, even if you know they run guns, and say "Please sir, we would like to buy a pair of handguns." You would be a total heat score: someone that attracts the attention of, or could be working with, LE.

They would need to develop a relationship with someone to the point of trust, and know the street talk that is used to make these arrangements such that even if the LE were listening, the discussion would sound innocent (but very meaningful to the gun dealer and buyers).

I think that's where Steam comes in. I think that's how the connected to people in the black market.

Agreed, it is just speculation on here. I think what is fueling it here on WS is people trying to parse why the McLeods are being quiet. I don't think their silence implies anything other than they are distraught, confused, overwhelmed, and want to be left alone.

I think there's a chance Kam got them from his family, but there's no telling where the guns came from.

MOO

 

[pissnglass]

That's what I'm saying. His actions are being scrutinized in a way that seems almost predatory. People want to vilify him, and it's not right.

truly a bummer. in his shoes I may be reacting exactly the same. wish the world would give the man a break. while I think he made a mistake being so available to the media, it seems this may have been his naivety that led him to do so. he's known to be unstable emotionally to begin with so its not a surprise that he has other issues 'upstairs'

 

[Zella]

truly a bummer. in his shoes I may be reacting exactly the same. wish the world would give the man a break. while I think he made a mistake being so available to the media, it seems this may have been his naivety that led him to do so. he's known to be unstable emotionally to begin with so its not a surprise that he has other issues 'upstairs'

I suspect he is also very lonely, is a talker by nature, and feels compelled to reach out to somebody to work through this in his head but has nobody else in his life he could do so with. I suspect that Bryer was whatever support system that his father had, and now he is gone.

MOO

 

[Zella]

Both played Rust, Bryer logged more hours, but Kam was listed as an Admin. I checked Steam, a few days after they had gone missing.

In reading the game description, I agree, there are a number of symbolic things that the suspects could have been acting out. Would be very interesting to hear a psychologist and sociologist thoughts on this case. Maybe we will hear that in the future.

Was Kam's profile previously not on private or was the info about him being an admin from the Rust page on the site?

I've been trying to source the talk about Kam being a mod/admin and haven't been able to yet because I couldn't remember which game it was.

Thanks!