Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #15

[mtnstream]

On another note has there been any new news or info about the case? There was an interview with the sister of Leonard Dyck. Did anyone watch it?

Editing to add Im pretty sure I was confused and it was the newer interview with Chynnas brother that I was thinking of.

Perhaps this has already been posted, reading this article reminds me that Chynna and Lucas must have been two wonderful individuals, from equally wonderful, loving families! Chynna's brother mentions reading online different theories (because they just don't know why, it's incomprehensible) and also it being okay to decompress, get back to their respective routines, basically, be patient and wait for more answers.

He sounds very down-to-earth, especially considering the circumstances. I'm reminded to be thoughtful of my posts on this site - as one never knows who is reading.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...her-family-says-they-may-never-know-1.5247816

 

[Iwondertoo]

I've being thinking about the RAV4 left burning and then at some point, BS and KM leave stuff on the shore to be found so that narrows down their location.

We know the date when the RAV was burned but I doubt we will ever know when those items were left on the shore or when exactly they committed suicide.

But it opens up lots of possible theories.

 

[otto]

I wouldn't assume that at all. There are regulations in Saskatchewan as well, in regards to number of vehicles and the number of people per campsite. It's a space thing, we can't have a trailer, a boat, and 3 vehicles in a camping spot, there just isn't enough room. And the only time they would even notice is when they are going through the campground. We have never had to give them our license plate or even vehicle description to get a park pass or to camp. I cannot find anything about registering a vehicle at a provincial park in Alberta.

This would have been the easiest way for the two to get cleaned up and go relatively unnoticed. Would definitely be sneakier than stopping at a truck stop where they would be sure to stick out and they would have surveillance as well JMO

Parking passes and campground registration are completely different.
I doubt they cleaned up, but expect they used roadside pullouts for toilets.

 

[mtnstream]

I still haven’t managed to find a video with his saying “blaze of glory”, despite watching many, with a few articles even stating they were the whole interview.

Imagine he is/was being sequestered somehow by Australia 60 Minutes. He doesn’t have access to news or media. He’s already been through a roller coaster of believing his son is missing and possibly a victim due to truck being destroyed to finding out his son is now charged with second degree murder (but he’s told nothing about what prompted police to think his son was involved) and he’s a suspect in the murder of two others (which to him seems extremely unrelated, to the police itvwas unrelated for time as well). He’s going through all that and then 60 minutes Australia shows him brief footage of his son and friend, still alive and not shot by police who he believes will “shoot first, ask questions later”. I assume his initial reaction was such relief his son was still alive and then instant hope his son might still come home and it would all be sorted out. Granted a very simplistic view perhaps but not necessarily malicious. I can’t imagine any parent being able to accept being told their child is a murderer, especially in a short time frame without having been given one iota of information about alleged crimes.

Scrutinizing his emotions and reactions and then judging based on them, for them - it just seems fundamentally wrong to me.

A.S. was quoted as saying that in numerous MSM articles. I watched the early video interview as well, and couldn't find him saying those exact words. Keep in mind, his video interviews were certainly edited for clarity and length. I doubt the original MSM interview, would have quoted that without him actually saying that to the reporter. But anything is possible. MOO

 

[mtnstream]

I completely disagree with Yahoo's assessment that AS praised his son for evading police!

First, the 60 Minutes program was taped over a period of two weeks. The narrator prefaces the program stating that the reporter had been shadowing AS during the manhunt, and was with him on the day he learned his son was dead. He learned earlier his son was missing when he read it in the Vancouver Sun newspaper. It was as they were filming that they learned of a sighting, and that is where AS gave the boys "Kudos," - he was overjoyed to see them on surveillance alive.

MOO

I get that he was happy to see they were alive, especially after he said he thought they would be dead eithin a few days. Isn't it odd at that time, that he never said boys: please come home, contact the police, we are worried about you - or something to that effect? I get that everyone deals with fear in their own way, just think it is strange. MOO

 

[Moriarty]

This lead us to believe that Kam and Bryer were indeed camping in that spot where they found the Dodge. The question is; for how long and when did they actually arrive in the area. We suspect it took them until Sunday/Monday (the night Fowler and Deese were murdered) leisurely driving up from Port Alberni if they set out on Friday July 12th to arrive just outside Dease Lake and camped/tooled round the area until the night of July 18th. The night they encountered Leonard Dyck. I just get this feeling that whatever happened that night of the 18th with Leonard Dyck absolutely scared those boys to death, hence burning their truck AND their effective shelter and fleeing across half of Northern Canada in four days.

Interesting theory.

I’m more inclined to think that the two were only camping near Dease Lake for three days or so. The store owner at the Jade City store said she had seen them camping for a “few” days.

I think the thing that terrified them on July 19 was seeing news about the murders of LF and CD while getting their free coffee at the store. The RCMP were asking for any footage and there was an apparent witness from the evening before the couple were found. The two teens knew they had done it and were now scared.

KM and BS saw that news and thought, “oh , we gotta ditch this camper and get the hell outta here.”

I’m not sure whether they drove their camper into the woods deeper and caused the damage to the camper, but others on here with more knowledge of that sort of thing suggest so.

In any case, the two stood on opposite sides of the highway hitchhiking (again according to the store owner) looking to jump the first vulnerable person with a vehicle they meet. Enter poor LD and his Rav4. They take his Rav, burn their truck and dump LD’s body 2 km south as they head out of B.C. towards Alberta.

 

[CinNC]

Apologies if this was already posted. But, I just found a really interesting article about a certified criminal profiler's take on some of their strategies when doing a behavioral analysis. The article says RCMP will involve their behavioral analysis unit in the investigation.
Behavioural analysis can help answer the 'why' in B.C. murders: expert

 

[JudgeJudi]

Here's another article on the same profiler:

A criminal profiler says investigators should find clues about why two men might have killed three people in northern BC and whether there was a leader and a follower.

Jim Van Allen, a former manager of the Ontario Provincial Police criminal profiling unit who has studied 835 homicides said evidence can determine what happened in most cases. But it can be harder to determine motive, and that's where behavioural analysts come in.

"The evidence is going to take them so far. It's going to tell them who did what to whom, at what time and how. But it's probably not going to answer the big question on everybody's mind: 'Why?"' he said. "That's one of those behavioural issues that has to be interpreted to some degree from people's conduct, their behaviour during the crime, what was done to the victims" and other factors.

…

The RCMP’s behavioural analysis unit is assisting investigators.

He said crime scenes can also show that more than one killer is involved. "I've looked at crime scenes where you see two distinct styles of conduct. You'll see one (victim) is treated more brutally or unempathetically than the other. You might have a minor act of consideration for one victim. And those are two different thinking perspectives — they come from two different personalities."

…

“Thrill killings are rare and are especially difficult to process because the offender operates with a completely different set of moral rules. In these crimes, the offenders get a high level of satisfaction out of just committing the murder."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/criminal-profile-death-1.5246192?cmp=rss

 

[CinNC]

That theory has crossed my mind too.

The search and rescue man (Paul somebody) interviewed in a video the day after they found them spoke to this.

He said there are winter roads that could take you through to northern Ontario, but ONLY in the Winter when mud, water, etc. is frozen. He pointed out, however, that on some maps they don't differentiate and just show roads.

So its possible that K&B thought they could get through. This would also account for them topping up their fuel tank with $20 of fuel; they would have realized that if they were taking

 

[copkid]

As I believe I may have been the one to raise the robbery issue most recently in this thread, I'd be remiss if I did not point out that I chose my words poorly; I ought to have mentioned that robbery and murder are not either/or motives. Murder might have been the prime motive, the robbery an afterthought. Or visa-versa. My only point when I mentioned this a few pages back was to see if anyone here had a reasonable theory contra the victims being robbed.

I do wonder what the robbery motive was; simple greed, or an attempt to hinder the police? Or, of course, both.

What happened to tourist couple found dead on Alaska Highway?

This linked article has Chynna's brother saying....most of their belongings were left behind.

MOO...I feel wallets and ID were stolen to slow down the identification process and hinder the police, thus giving the killers more time to get away.

 

[Seattle1]

I get that he was happy to see they were alive, especially after he said he thought they would be dead eithin a few days. Isn't it odd at that time, that he never said boys: please come home, contact the police, we are worried about you - or something to that effect? I get that everyone deals with fear in their own way, just think it is strange. MOO

I accepted his "Kudos" and "smart boys" as spontaneous utterance (as did the film crew, I believe).
They (60 Minutes) were live taping and and AS was looking directly at his phone watching the news break.

I agree it would have been a good platform to ask the boys to contact RCMP as I believe most parents would but AS is not like most parents. MOO

 

[sandbar]

I've being thinking about the RAV4 left burning and then at some point, BS and KM leave stuff on the shore to be found so that narrows down their location.

We know the date when the RAV was burned but I doubt we will ever know when those items were left on the shore or when exactly they committed suicide.

But it opens up lots of possible theories.

At one point we were saying LE probably took video when they flew over at different points in the search. They could and probably did compare the footage and they could say when it appeared.

 

[sandbar]

What happened to tourist couple found dead on Alaska Highway?

This linked article has Chynna's brother saying....most of their belongings were left behind.

MOO...I feel wallets and ID were stolen to slow down the identification process and hinder the police, thus giving the killers more time to get away.

Or maybe K&B took particular items because those items represent something else in K&B's "game". To me that explains all the sightings and interactions. The goal wasn't to hide, but to engage with LE, and they we ahead of LE. I think they left "easter eggs" for LE to puzzle over. I think K&B's actions made total sense to themselves. It'll take some time for LE to figure out, but they will.

 

[CanadianMade]

Jumping off your post on the subject... I don't think one way or another really about a sexual assault but I will say even if she was clothed doesn't mean there wasn't perhaps an attempt at sexual assault or an escalation heading in that direction possibly.

Personally I think if there were sexual assault involved the RCMP would have stated that already. Generally with sexual assaults they announce that as to make sure the public is aware and don't walk alone, etc. They May not have felt it was necessary, But they also know just how much negative attention they would get if they didn't warn people of that.

 

[Errrr]

Count how many that have not been in a smashup here, have a bent frame and buckled roof: burned out cars - Google Search

If the fire was started inside the cab with a substantial fuel source, I could see the frame buckling under the load over time. Most of these other fires originate in the engine compartment or exterior to the cab so the roof isn’t subjected to the same stress over the course of the fire. A structural engineer would be the best person to ask. This roof damage is why I wondered if they were barbecuing inside.

 

[musicaljoke]

From the article linked below: Whitehorse truck driver Ed Grennan put up a memorial in honour of Chynna Deese and Fowler at the spot where they died.

'Life is so short sometimes, and their life was very short, and they were living their life to the fullest,' said Ed Grennan. (Submitted by Ed Grennan )
Sheila Deese immediately broke down and cried.

"My father was a truck driver, my brother is a truck driver, my whole family ... they're all truck drivers," said Deese. "So for this man to be a truck driver it was just too ironic."

Grennan drives between Fort Nelson, B.C., and Whitehorse twice a week. He regularly drives by the spot near where Fowler and Chynna Deese were killed.

Grennan wanted to do something to remember the young couple, so he created a highway memorial with an Australian flag for Fowler, an American flag for Deese, and a floral cross where the couple was found.

Sheila Deese said it was the brightest act of kindness she has seen so far.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nort...ial-death-lucas-fowler-chynna-deese-1.5248860

 

[SovereignSnake]

Interesting theory.

I’m more inclined to think that the two were only camping near Dease Lake for three days or so. The store owner at the Jade City store said she had seen them camping for a “few” days.

I think the thing that terrified them on July 19 was seeing news about the murders of LF and CD while getting their free coffee at the store. The RCMP were asking for any footage and there was an apparent witness from the evening before the couple were found. The two teens knew they had done it and were now scared.

KM and BS saw that news and thought, “oh ****, we gotta ditch this camper and get the hell outta here.”

I’m not sure whether they drove their camper into the woods deeper and caused the damage to the camper, but others on here with more knowledge of that sort of thing suggest so.

In any case, the two stood on opposite sides of the highway hitchhiking (again according to the store owner) looking to jump the first vulnerable person with a vehicle they meet. Enter poor LD and his Rav4. They take his Rav, burn their truck and dump LD’s body 2 km south as they head out of B.C. towards Alberta.

Interesting, I had never heard the story about the boys spotted hitchhiking. I saw the store owner's interview that she had the Dodge pickup and camper on CCTV from the afternoon of July 18th but it was never released. Do you have a link for the store owner stating they were hitchhiking? That just blew my mind. What's more, the initial reports of the truck and camper on fire made it sound like it was right in the ditch on the side of the road. Then you start delving into photos of the whole scene and it looks like they drove off the road a few hundred feet into a fairly big pullout. It didn't look like a bad spot to camp for a few days and take a break from the road.

 

[Zella]

Here's another article on the same profiler:

A criminal profiler says investigators should find clues about why two men might have killed three people in northern BC and whether there was a leader and a follower.

Jim Van Allen, a former manager of the Ontario Provincial Police criminal profiling unit who has studied 835 homicides said evidence can determine what happened in most cases. But it can be harder to determine motive, and that's where behavioural analysts come in.

"The evidence is going to take them so far. It's going to tell them who did what to whom, at what time and how. But it's probably not going to answer the big question on everybody's mind: 'Why?"' he said. "That's one of those behavioural issues that has to be interpreted to some degree from people's conduct, their behaviour during the crime, what was done to the victims" and other factors.

…

The RCMP’s behavioural analysis unit is assisting investigators.

He said crime scenes can also show that more than one killer is involved. "I've looked at crime scenes where you see two distinct styles of conduct. You'll see one (victim) is treated more brutally or unempathetically than the other. You might have a minor act of consideration for one victim. And those are two different thinking perspectives — they come from two different personalities."

…

“Thrill killings are rare and are especially difficult to process because the offender operates with a completely different set of moral rules. In these crimes, the offenders get a high level of satisfaction out of just committing the murder."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/criminal-profile-death-1.5246192?cmp=rss

BBM

That was a facet in In Cold Blood, too. Investigators were puzzled about weird little acts of kindness, like tucking in the daughter and placing a pillow under another victim's head.

I've been very curious about who killed whom throughout this case. It does sound like CD sustained more violence based on witness testimony, but there isn't enough to know if she was targeted for more violence than LF or if that just ended up happening. In any event, I'm curious whether it was KM or BS who killed her and which of the 2 killed LD. I've sometimes wondered if there was something about the LD killing that freaked them out badly, but I cannot figure out why that would bother them worse than a double homicide!

 

[Zella]

Interesting, I had never heard the story about the boys spotted hitchhiking. I saw the store owner's interview that she had the Dodge pickup and camper on CCTV from the afternoon of July 18th but it was never released. Do you have a link for the store owner stating they were hitchhiking? That just blew my mind. What's more, the initial reports of the truck and camper on fire made it sound like it was right in the ditch on the side of the road. Then you start delving into photos of the whole scene and it looks like they drove off the road a few hundred feet into a fairly big pullout. It didn't look like a bad spot to camp for a few days and take a break from the road.

Here's the article that discusses the hitching in opposite directions:
Searching for answers: Sense of unease lingers in B.C.’s isolated north as police hunt suspects in remote killings

 

[scrappinkat]

Calvin White: Like many teens, Kam and Bryer were lost — and we should have noticed