Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #16

[acutename]

...or owned any guns at all?

The presence of guns in a house, owned by the adults, is a kind of power play. Legal or not, taking the guns of that person sends a message. About who is in control.

After reading the last few posts, I'm thinking that stealing from a neighbor is highly, highly unlikely. Would be a family member OR some internet transaction.

If you recall, the store from which BS bought his armband and which sold certain Nazi-themed items closed. Maybe BS and KM snooped around under-the-table retail and managed to find some underground source for weapons- pay cash, no records, something totally illegal.

 

[elondriel]

These guys had two vehicles in their possession, and both of them burned.

One could be an accident.

Two really can’t be a coincidence though.

Oh absolutely I feel the RAV4 was on purpose.

 

[KR72]

I totally agree. I don't think the murders were about theft, getting the van, getting ID, etc. or even necessary. I think they got the guns before the trip with intent to use them.

I'm not sure it'd be easy to acquire a black market gun here on Vancouver Island. The only thing I can think of is through gangs and Hells Angels (guessing) connections to get one which I'm doubting these guys had.

I'm veering towards stolen from family or maybe another one of their friend's family homes. Unless it comes back these two were doing B&Es or something prior, I really think it's hard to get a gun easily even in Victoria.

Agreed, and what kind of money would these two have to buy a gun on the black market, especially a handgun? They're pretty expensive, aren't they?

Edit. I googled "black market gun prices, Canada" and here's what I found. It doesn't give actual prices for different guns, just "$3000 for a gun that would cost $300 in the US." I'm assuming that's for a handgun or something very powerful. The possibilities are endless...however, I'm still going that one of the suspects stole it from his home.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/national-gun-trafficking-straw-buying-smuggling-firearms-1.5126228

 

[acutename]

These guys had two vehicles in their possession, and both of them burned.

One could be an accident.

Two really can’t be a coincidence though.

they liked burning things. I said in a post before that most teen males like vehicles and would be reluctant to completely destroy them, but these guys did not really value anything, IMO, and I wonder if they had any arson in their past.

 

[acutename]

It may very well have been their plan, but based on what a poster stated that had worked at a Walmart in Canada, the store manager on duty was very hands on in every aspect of handling ammo, from receiving it, to securing and storing it, to selling it. I took from that it would be very difficult for an employee to steal. JMO

I am sure you are right, but I wonder if there is a half empty box in the locked storage cage or some other subterfuge (just very suspicious, I am).

 

[Arizona 123]

That's a really good theory. They were teenagers so I imagine the "screw our parents" thing was strong with them, as we speculated was one motivation behind burning the truck/camper with the gaming computer and all their stuff. Also kind of would put the "our parents told us to go on a long joyride" comment into perspective. That could also be the "trigger" we were talking about, maybe a really bad fight or something.



Yeah but in that case there would be some sort of "vigilante justice" on the part of the victim, I imagine....

On the non-family angle, what I had in mind (and neglected to say... ooops) was someone who did not know who had stolen from them. One possibility IMHO is if they were burglarizing, or maybe even car-hopping. If they stole from someone who had illegal items (say, handguns, no permit) I doubt the theft would be reported (and they would know know who the thief was).

And yup, it was the "long joyride" comment that got me pondering whether there was some sort of rift in a family - that, coupled with them both giving their real names.

My strong hunch is that when the RCMP releases their report, a few crimes on Vancouver Island will have their cases closed.

 

[MistyWaters]

Very possible (which gets into the realm of personality analysis).

I think it's fair to say they had no qualms about killing, even that they wanted to kill. Maybe they only wanted to kill people who appeared nice. We may never know.

But yes, perhaps being "nice" was regarded as a very useless trait.

No one had to die in this scenario, if all that the perps wanted were things. There's an extra layer (let's just call it "mental issues" or "craziness" at play in this case).

This is the point I keep coming back to as well.

If all the perps wanted were things......why on earth did they need things? 18 and 19 year old males I know would be absolutely thrilled to get a truck and camper on loan to travel to Whitehorse to look for work. What a great experience, regardless if they found good jobs or not. And I don’t think anyone would offer a truck and camper without ensuring the two had enough gas money and food to make the trip. What more did they need that required robbery?

I think they were already well-practised, conniving petty criminals long before this trip. They had no intention of getting jobs. The Port Alberni family members, whoever they were, who supported their stated intentions and aided them in getting set up for this trip up north....what a catastrophic betrayal.

 

[Esprite]

Sometimes there are happy endings in remote northern BC. Bless his wee heart.

Police dog finds missing 4-year-old boy in MacKenzie, B.C.

 

[Zella]

And yup, it was the "long joyride" comment that got me pondering whether there was some sort of rift in a family - that, coupled with them both giving their real names.

SBM

I personally got more of a generic teenage smart-aleck vibe from the "long joy-ride" comment, especially since the other guy was the one who mentioned parents first and Kam was just parroting back the "mom and dad" part.

His use of "long joyride" does seem like a tell on how they may have envisioned their spree, though. Might also have been something one of his relatives jokingly said about their plans to travel up north, never realizing the 2 had much darker intentions, but it was a phrase stuck in his head.

 

[Link Haze]

...or owned any guns at all?

The presence of guns in a house, owned by the adults, is a kind of power play. Legal or not, taking the guns of that person sends a message. About who is in control.

After reading the last few posts, I'm thinking that stealing from a neighbor is highly, highly unlikely. Would be a family member OR some internet transaction.

I don't even think it would be internet transaction. I think it would be more street level (in person) cash transaction.

 

[scrappinkat]

FWIW, I have seen no mention of him doing any sports or anything requiring coordination. Did I miss anything?

I’m pretty sure I read that Bryer played guitar. And he had something about it on his Facebook profile.

 

[Zella]

I’m pretty sure I read that Bryer played guitar. And he had something about it on his Facebook profile.

That's really interesting--I hadn't heard that. I've wondered what other hobbies they might have beyond the main ones that get discussed (gaming and airsoft).

 

[KR72]

SBM

I personally got more of a generic teenage smart-aleck vibe from the "long joy-ride" comment, especially since the other guy was the one who mentioned parents first and Kam was just parroting back the "mom and dad" part.

His use of "long joyride" does seem like a tell on how they may have envisioned their spree, though. Might also have been something one of his relatives jokingly said about their plans to travel up north, never realizing the 2 had much darker intentions, but it was a phrase stuck in his head.

One thing that struck me about KM's use of "joyride." Most people use joyride when talking about a stolen car. Taking your parent's car for a joyride would often mean you took it out and placed it back in the garage without their knowledge (hopefully, lol), otherwise, most people would say road trip.

 

[Zella]

One thing that struck me about KM's use of "joyride." Most people use joyride when talking about a stolen car. Taking your parent's car for a joyride would often mean you took it out and placed it back in the garage without their knowledge (hopefully, lol), otherwise, most people would say road trip.

Yeah there's definitely the connotation of doing something transgressive. In fact, I believe the guy they interacted with got just that impression--that they were driving around in a parent's car without permission.

It was, incidentally, also a convenient way to explain why they were both so nervous, especially Bryer, to an outside observer.

 

[scrappinkat]

Edit. I googled "black market gun prices, Canada" and here's what I found.

Lol oh I hope you’re not tagged on a list now. I’m joking btw. Sometimes when I’m typing things in to google search I have brief qualms that I’m going to have a hard time explaining them if I’m ever asked.

 

[ktm44]

does Walmart sell guns and ammo in Canada?

They sell some ammo.

 

[Link Haze]

Agreed, and what kind of money would these two have to buy a gun on the black market, especially a handgun? They're pretty expensive, aren't they?

Edit. I googled "black market gun prices, Canada" and here's what I found. It doesn't give actual prices for different guns, just "$3000 for a gun that would cost $300 in the US." I'm assuming that's for a handgun or something very powerful. The possibilities are endless...however, I'm still going that one of the suspects stole it from his home.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/national-gun-trafficking-straw-buying-smuggling-firearms-1.5126228

There were 2 guns involved, not just 1. Maybe Kam took out a large cash advance on a credit card - went to the bank and said he needed the cash to purchase a car. People pay cash for private car sales all the time, so taking out $5,000-$8,000 or more could be totally plausible.

 

[MistyWaters]

SBM

I personally got more of a generic teenage smart-aleck vibe from the "long joy-ride" comment, especially since the other guy was the one who mentioned parents first and Kam was just parroting back the "mom and dad" part.

His use of "long joyride" does seem like a tell on how they may have envisioned their spree, though. Might also have been something one of his relatives jokingly said about their plans to travel up north, never realizing the 2 had much darker intentions, but it was a phrase stuck in his head.

I agree. The two were almost in Saskatchewan driving a car with BC plates. The Cold Lake guy probably asked them what they were doing there and they certainly couldn’t reply they were fleeing 3 murders hundreds of miles away in a stolen car. That their parents told them to take a long joyride implies both permission and freedom relating to their presence in Cold Lake....a deception. They were well practised liars IMO.

 

[Zella]

They were well practised liars IMO.

Agreed 100%. I think they were in a position where it wasn't well-spotted before the crimes happened since Bryer's family situation was so fragmented, nobody was comparing notes to catch him in lies, and I think Kam had the cover of his personality outwardly seeming normal and nice, so nobody suspected him of being dishonest.

 

[scrappinkat]

There were 2 guns involved, not just 1. Maybe Kam took out a large cash advance on a credit card - went to the bank and said he needed the cash to purchase a car. People pay cash for private car sales all the time, so taking out $5,000-$8,000 or more could be totally plausible.

He worked part time at Walmart though, barely 19. Do credit cards really start out that high?