Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #16

[NJSleuth91]

SBM

Good to see you again!

I had to chuckle about the waving when hiking so that people will remember you. I don't hike, so that never would have occurred to me, though I do sometimes wonder during the course of my day if I'm leaving enough of a paper/digital trail for LE to follow me if I disappeared. (Too much true crime for me!)

Thanks! It's good to be back. Yeah I totally get you on the true crime thing. Sometimes I have that "if I went missing today, what would my Charley Project profile say?" thought process too...I'm a weirdo....

I'm wondering if CD only waved at the one woman or if she waved at multiple people. That might be a good way to determine if she was just waving to be friendly or if she was waving because she was actually trying to flag someone down.

Well, how many cars passed by, even? If this area was so remote that the police were four hours away, maybe the people who saw her were the only people who drove by.

 

[scrappinkat]

Guess who's back...back again....

Anyway, catching up:

I found myself agreeing with much of what you say.

And much impressed at such well executed use and command of the multiquote feature on WS

 

[Zella]

Thanks! It's good to be back. Yeah I totally get you on the true crime thing. Sometimes I have that "if I went missing today, what would my Charley Project profile say?" thought process too...I'm a weirdo....



Well, how many cars passed by, even? If this area was so remote that the police were four hours away, maybe the people who saw her were the only people who drove by.

I was a little surprised at the amount of traffic described. There was the mechanic and his wife together, a husband traveling separately from his wife, the road worker, the road boss. And, of course, we don't know who else came forward to police but didn't talk to the media.

I think it was the wife traveling separately who specifically said she didn't pull over because there was traffic coming both ways. That surprised me a little bit since it does make it seem like the road was fairly well-traveled. I'd love to know how busy the road is because it seemed like a fair number of folks drove by.

 

[srper2]

I looked for tow trucks. None in Liard Hot Springs, one in Fort Nelson. Did you find a tow truck in Watson Lake?

I'm pretty sure that night towing was not included, but at 3:30 in the afternoon it would not have been dark when picking up the vehicle at 7:30PM. Any kind of towing on the Alaska highway is expensive.

The problem was by the time the tow truck got there they would be working after hours, very costly. More affordable to wait until the following morning. If, according to most posters here, there is no phone coverage, how could they call for a tow truck, or even the police anyway? Was this why Chynna was waving, had they realised they could not get the van going, had no way to call for help and needed somebody to call for them? Did the witnesses who called the police have to drive to a landline or is there mobile phone coverage in the area?

 

[Zella]

The problem was by the time the tow truck got there, they would be working after hours, very costly. More affordable to wait until the following morning. - And, if according to most posters here, there is no phone coverage, how could they call for a tow truck, or even the police anyway? Did the witnesses who called the police have to drive to a landline or is there mobile phone coverage in the area?

My impression was there was no cell service out there, but I'm not 100% sure.

 

[MistyWaters]

If they only wanted the van, and Lucas explained it doesn't work, they would have left them alone? Same for Leonard Dyck? He just needed to give them the key, to stay alive?

I think they killed first, and grabbed stuff later. They stopped only because they were on the run.

Just thinking about why I also agree that murder wasn’t an 11th hour occurrence that just happened. At some point during the interaction, if it was a robbery gone wrong, violence toward L&C became involved and as there were no obvious injuries to either B or K in the video from Meadow Lake a week later, neither was repulsed enough by their best friend’s initial aggression to stop him, whether it was B or K who made the first move causing injury and death. That would’ve turned the tables by creating a 3 against 1 scenario. But of course that didn’t happen and allegedly they went on to murder LD. Twice, the victims just happened to get in the way and be killed, no I don’t buy that just happened.

I am interested in the final police report, to learn if there were any other potential victims in BC who by some quirk of fate, were passed by. I think the reason for the gap in time between the 15th and 19th was due to a search for a victim to murder who owned a reliable vehicle involving an isolated location with no other witnesses. Did they hang around campgrounds, chatting to other people travelling alone with an eye to who might have $$$ as well?

 

[Zella]

Just thinking about why I also agree that murder wasn’t an 11th hour occurrence that just happened. At some point during the interaction, if it was a robbery gone wrong, violence toward L&C became involved and as there were no obvious injuries to either B or K in the video from Meadow Lake a week later, neither was repulsed enough by their best friend’s initial aggression to stop him, whether it was B or K who made the first move causing injury and death. That would’ve turned the tables by creating a 3 against 1 scenario. But of course that didn’t happen and allegedly they went on to murder LD. Twice, the victims just happened to get in the way and be killed, no I don’t buy that just happened.

I am interested in the final police report, to learn if there were any other potential victims in BC who by some quirk of fate, were passed by. I think the reason for the gap in time between the 15th and 19th was due to a search for a victim to murder who owned a reliable vehicle involving an isolated location with no other witnesses. Did they hang around campgrounds, chatting to other people travelling alone with an eye to who might have $$$ as well?

Yes, one of the first things I noticed about the surveillance footage is they seemed to have no defensive wounds on them whatsoever. A little harder to tell with Bryer since he was wearing the long-sleeved, button-up camo, but Kam's arms and neck were very visible. I think whatever resistance the victims offered occurred at a distance and was probably primarily verbal. MOO

 

[Seattle1]

I totally agree with this article. It seems like most of the people who work with young people, on this thread and elsewhere, have a similar view. The whole thing is just so sad.

From the opinion article: Scientifically, we know that kids don't fully mature until their early 20s.

While that may be true - I believe children know right from wrong by age of 5-- and that includes it being wrong to steal, and also shoot somebody dead.

Experts however disagree with me. They say children know right from wrong by age 19 months.

Research shows toddlers understand right from wrong at just 19 months

 

[Zella]

Oh I came across something that I wanted to add in relation to our discussion about hygiene/clothing change.

The constable who saw them on the 22nd said they were wearing different clothes than what they were wearing on the 21st in the surveillance video. According to this constable, neither were in camo. So, it really does sound like they were maybe changing clothing every day.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/first-nation-constable-stopped-homicide-suspects-1.5230779

 

[SteveP]

SBM

Good to see you again!

I had to chuckle about the waving when hiking so that people will remember you. I don't hike, so that never would have occurred to me, though I do sometimes wonder during the course of my day if I'm leaving enough of a paper/digital trail for LE to follow me if I disappeared. (Too much true crime for me!)

I'm wondering if CD only waved at the one woman or if she waved at multiple people. That might be a good way to determine if she was just waving to be friendly or if she was waving because she was actually trying to flag someone down.

I have to say, I have never thought that the comment about Chynna waving to the passerby was in any way a signal of distress, but exactly the opposite. I live in a decent-sized city, where most waving to strangers, at least now, is done with primarily one finger, and not very friendly...but, for a while, after I was first married, I lived in a more rural setting, where almost everyone would do a little lift-of-the-hand off the top of the steering wheel whenever they would meet you on the road. It was just a friendly acknowledgement that they saw you. And there is a difference in waving to someone and waving someone over to you. I always sensed that Chynna's wave was a friendly acknowledgement to anyone slowing to check on them, a "I see you, and thanks for checking on us, but we are okay" kind of wave. Even though she was a big-city girl, she went to college in a small mountain area, so she had likely experienced small town friendliness quite often.

 

[srper2]

After seeing the picture of the crime scene of LD's murder and then comparing it with the video if the crime scene from CD and LF's murder, I noticed that the victims in both cases were moved neatly away from the car area. LD's, in particular, appears to have been moved to be laying straight near the edge of the pullout. Posters have referred to the description of the position of CD and LF's bodies when found, laying in similar positions, which I feel indicates the same person dragged them to where they were left. I wonder if LD was dragged in a similar or same manner?

 

[Shlock Homes]

KM & BS torched every vehicle they came across. Is there any theories as to why they didn't torch this one? Police certainly haven't said if any attempt was made to burn it, or if any attempt was made to turn it on (and if it wasn't working, that would be why it wasn't stolen). I'm guessing they couldn't or didn't match up any tire tracks to KM's red truck. That dirt and gravel was probably compromised by the various people stopping on the scene.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yeah where I live, it is considered rude not to wave, even if you don't know the person!

CD was from NC, which is my home state, though I no longer live there. I think she was from Charlotte, which is a big city, but I can definitely see her thinking of waving as just being friendly since she seems to have been a really friendly person herself. Point being, people from the American South often don't think waving at strangers is weird.

That’s very interesting!

I think it’s be impossible for anyone to mistake a friendly wave for a sort of “stop, help, help!” wave (I’m not quite sure what that would even look like other than swinging both both arms down and then up over ones head) but the woman didn’t provide any details.

 

[Shlock Homes]

After seeing the picture of the crime scene of LD's murder and then comparing it with the video if the crime scene from CD and LF's murder, I noticed that the victims in both cases were moved neatly away from the car area. LD's, in particular, appears to have been moved to be laying straight near the edge of the pullout. Posters have referred to the description of the position of CD and LF's bodies when found, laying in similar positions, which I feel indicates the same person dragged them to where they were left. I wonder if LD was dragged in a similar or same manner?

I remember seeing the interview by the road worker saying that the bodies of Lucas and Chynna look like they had been positioned or displayed. I wonder if the same thing had happened with Leonard Dyck? But the police don't want to disclose his manner of death. Also, was CD in her sleepwear? In the video of the gas station, she's wearing light colored shorts and t-shirt, but the blurred crime scene photos, it looks like both individuals are wearing dark, possibly long sleeved, clothing. So maybe that would indicate they were getting ready for or were already in bed at the time the murder happened?

 

[Zella]

I have to say, I have never thought that the comment about Chynna waving to the passerby was in any way a signal of distress, but exactly the opposite. I grew up in a decent-sized city, where most waving to strangers is done with primarily one finger, and not very friendly...but, for a while, after I was first married, I lived in a more rural setting, where almost everyone would do a little lift-of-the-hand off the top of the steering wheel whenever they would meet you on the road. It was just a friendly acknowledgement that they saw you. And there is a difference in waving to someone and waving someone over to you. I always sensed that Chynna's wave was a friendly acknowledgement to anyone slowing to check on them, a "I see you. and thanks for checking on us, but are okay" kind of wave. Even though she was a big-city girl, she went to college in a small mountain area, so she had likely experienced small town friendliness quite often.

Haha We've got the friendly lift-the-hand-off-the-wheel-to-acknowledge-your-existence move down pat down here!

On a side note, I didn't know where she went to college. Just looked it up and realized she was an Appalachian State grad. She attended college just a couple of hours from my hometown. I'm not sure why, but I had assumed she attended one of the colleges in the Charlotte area or somewhere else in the Piedmont. That confirms to me, though, that she'd probably be more comfortable waving at people as a sign of friendliness.

I think you're right that the wave was probably just a "thanks for thinking of us" gesture.

 

[otto]

SBM

Good to see you again!

I had to chuckle about the waving when hiking so that people will remember you. I don't hike, so that never would have occurred to me, though I do sometimes wonder during the course of my day if I'm leaving enough of a paper/digital trail for LE to follow me if I disappeared. (Too much true crime for me!)

I'm wondering if CD only waved at the one woman or if she waved at multiple people. That might be a good way to determine if she was just waving to be friendly or if she was waving because she was actually trying to flag someone down.

This article doesn't mention waving, does mention that she notified RCMP,

"Carrie Hawryluk of Fort Nelson, B.C., says she saw a young couple matching the description of Fowler and Deese by the side of the Alaska Highway on Sunday afternoon.

“We just saw their van on the side of the road and we saw a young couple, and the van hood was up like it had broken down and they were sitting in some lawn chairs in the ditch,” she said.

She said her husband, who had driven by about 20 minutes earlier, saw the pair and slowed down to approach, but “the couple didn’t really indicate that they were having problems.”

Hawryluk, who was travelling with her two aunts and a female cousin, said she hesitated to stop due to safety concerns but notified RCMP."​

Tourists found dead along B.C.’s Alaska Highway appear to have been shot: NSW police

 

[Gina20]

Reporting back from my trip to the automotive supply store today, where I found the Tire Thumper. It's designed for professional truckers. It looks like a small baseball bat on a leather wrist strap. It sure would be handy for testing truck tires. It has a lot of heft to it.

This is the kind of thing I've heard that long-haul truckers carry. The store that sells them is near a truck stop, so this makes sense. Just doing my WS research.

ETA: Walmart.ca does sell a tire thumper, although not the professional brand I saw today.

 

[scrappinkat]

After seeing the picture of the crime scene of LD's murder and then comparing it with the video if the crime scene from CD and LF's murder, I noticed that the victims in both cases were moved neatly away from the car area. LD's, in particular, appears to have been moved to be laying straight near the edge of the pullout. Posters have referred to the description of the position of CD and LF's bodies when found, laying in similar positions, which I feel indicates the same person dragged them to where they were left. I wonder if LD was dragged in a similar or same manner?

The tire tracks (two sets possibly) from where Leonard Dycks body was found do not line up with that theory.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Just thinking about why I also agree that murder wasn’t an 11th hour occurrence that just happened. At some point during the interaction, if it was a robbery gone wrong, violence toward L&C became involved and as there were no obvious injuries to either B or K in the video from Meadow Lake a week later, neither was repulsed enough by their best friend’s initial aggression to stop him, whether it was B or K who made the first move causing injury and death. That would’ve turned the tables by creating a 3 against 1 scenario. But of course that didn’t happen and allegedly they went on to murder LD. Twice, the victims just happened to get in the way and be killed, no I don’t buy that just happened.

And yet, it does happen. Who was it who was saying on here a while ago that a lot of murders happen as a result of a sudden disagreement where the perpetrator(s) feel that they are being disrespected? Murder during robbery is very common as well. I agree that they decided to sort of "lean into" the whole crime thing after it happened. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they went into it planning to murder. I mean, they could have -- it's possible either it was planned as a murder trip, or the murder plan coalesced during the drive up. But right now, we don't have enough evidence to say.

Also, we don't know how quickly the first murders happened...it could have happened within a few seconds, if it was the "Lucas startled them during a robbery and they shot him in the abdomen, then Chynna came running out with one shoe hearing the commotion and they shot her in the face" scenario I described as a possibility earlier.

From the opinion article: Scientifically, we know that kids don't fully mature until their early 20s.

While that may be true - I believe children know right from wrong by age of 5-- and that includes it being wrong to steal, and also shoot somebody dead.

Experts however disagree with me. They say children know right from wrong by age 19 months.

Research shows toddlers understand right from wrong at just 19 months

I think it's more complicated than that. There's a lot of research on this topic. It is definitely a fact that the brain matures at least into the mid-20s (wouldn't be surprised if it continues to mature even later than that). Knowing intellectually what the right thing is, doesn't mean that one has the self-control to regulate their emotions or impulses...that happens over time. I mean, how many times in life do people do things knowing it is wrong?

JMO but I know I was kind of a terrible person at 19 with crazy mood swings and did a lot of impulsive things, some of which hurt other people (not in terms of crime but like emotional hurt) and now looking back on it I feel like I'm a totally different, way calmer person now and would never act like that.

 

[scrappinkat]

Reporting back from my trip to the automotive supply store today, where I found the Tire Thumper. It's designed for professional truckers. It looks like a small baseball bat on a leather wrist strap. It sure would be handy for testing truck tires. It has a lot of heft to it.

This is the kind of thing I've heard that long-haul truckers carry. The store that sells them is near a truck stop, so this makes sense. Just doing my WS research.

I currently have one in my car. I don’t actually have a good reason like being a trucker for it though lol. (I guess if anyone wants a list of what rednecks possibly carry in their car I might be able to help out )

I missed it though, what was the thought process behind the automotive store shopping trip or the tire thumper?