Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #17

[Zella]

We have ticks in the south, none up north. Thank god, I’d rather deal with black flies.

Huh I learn something new on here everyday!

I guess it makes sense with the climate, though. Probably be too cold that far north for the nasty little bloodsuckers.

And I'd rather deal with the ticks, truthfully. The devil you know. . . .

 

[NJSleuth91]

SBM I've seen speculation that they may have turned off on that road, not realizing it literally ended in the middle of nowhere. My guess is that they were just sort of aimlessly driving with no real destination in mind--just some general guidelines, like stay in the north, where it is more rural and remote. In the beginning, as much progress as they were making, I had wondered if they were aiming for the Atlantic Ocean as some weird goal after they'd started closed to the Pacific. But I'm not even sure they were that goal-oriented about it, frankly. It was a joyride (though judging by their facial expressions in that surveillance footage, no longer very joyful)--until it wasn't because there was nowhere else to drive.

That's the sense I'm getting too. I think it was just moment by moment. I mean it's the same as when people try to outrun the cops in a car chase, and then after the car breaks down, they try to run away on foot. Come on, do they really think they're going to get away? They're just stuck on this one course of action because their brain can't face reality that they only have a few long-term options and none of them are good.

Honestly it seems pretty ridiculous, looking back on it, that a lot of people online were saying they were some kind of secret criminal masterminds....

 

[Arizona 123]

That co-op store in Meadow lake wasn't too easy to find, as it doesn't seem to show up in major search engines. In case anyone is wondering precisely where it is, it's here;
Google Maps
If you look in the reflection as the suspects exit the door (in the meadow lake vid), you see the building across the street (still has the same paint job).

I'd love to know what those two were looking for in that hardware store. They went down an aisle marked "seasonal" but I can't make out what sort of items were actually on the aisle. K did seem to be looking for something, and they seemed to know where they were going (maybe they'd asked as they entered?).

 

[Zella]

That's the sense I'm getting too. I think it was just moment by moment. I mean it's the same as when people try to outrun the cops in a car chase, and then after the car breaks down, they try to run away on foot. Come on, do they really think they're going to get away? They're just stuck on this one course of action because their brain can't face reality that they only have a few long-term options and none of them are good.

Honestly it seems pretty ridiculous, looking back on it, that a lot of people online were saying they were some kind of secret criminal masterminds....

Yeah I am not getting a criminal mastermind vibe from either one of them, though, as I've said before, I don't really get the impression they are complete idiots. More just like average teenagers with no common sense or real life experience, probably operating on a heady mixture of adrenaline and absolute terror.

I think the main thing with the case is that it was just so random. It can be so hard to solve one of these cases where the victims and the killers don't know each other, apparently only interacted at the moment of death. I suspect if this had happened in an earlier decade, before dashcams and video surveillance and DNA were a thing, this may very well have been unsolved, simply because there would be nothing to place these two at the crime. MOO

 

[NJSleuth91]

Yeah I am not getting a criminal mastermind vibe from either one of them, though, as I've said before, I don't really get the impression they are complete idiots. More just like average teenagers with no common sense or real life experience, probably operating on a heady mixture of adrenaline and absolute terror.

I think the main thing with the case is that it was just so random. It can be so hard to solve one of these cases where the victims and the killers don't know each other, apparently only interacted at the moment of death. I suspect if this had happened in an earlier decade, before dashcams and video surveillance and DNA were a thing, this may very well have been unsolved, simply because there would be nothing to place these two at the crime. MOO

Well Lucas and Chynna's murders probably would have been unsolved anyway had they not decided "burn your car and leave it next to a murder scene" is a viable crime strategy. Let's just say that clearly these guys have never watched Forensic Files.

And, like, if you're trying to get away with crime, committing more crime is the exact opposite of what you should be doing! But then the weird thing is, it seems like they immediately realized they messed up with Prof Dyck's murder, since they became fugitives and willingly entered this inhospitable hellscape before they were even named as suspects. But then why did they decide burning the car was a good idea in the first place? Like the whole thing just makes no sense at all!

 

[JudgeJudi]

I'd love to know what those two were looking for in that hardware store. They went down an aisle marked "seasonal" but I can't make out what sort of items were actually on the aisle. K did seem to be looking for something, and they seemed to know where they were going (maybe they'd asked as they entered?).

Deet insect repellant, mosquito head net hat protector?

 

[Optics]

With all due respect, in my experience with child custody issues, what we think, and what is actual fact are often two completely different things. I'm not arguing that AS didn't earn the right to reconnect with his son recently; however, the family court system will usually allow supervised visits with a young child, unless there are circumstances that put the child's safety and well-being at risk, whether physical or psychological. Bryer certainly had family support from his mother and grandmother over those years. If that wasn't happening, then he would have become a ward of the court. It seems that AS cleaned up his act, and did his best for his son in recent years, and he has my deepest sympathies now. This does not mean that the past isn't coming back to haunt him.

I don't disagree at all, however if he was on court order not allowed to see his son from 5 to 12 years old - what type of parenting was mom doing? I think the point I question is all those nazi items and other odd possessions of Bryer were kept at someone's house either his mom's or his grandmothers. Who was making the educational and the learning needs for Bryer if dad was out of the picture. Those were/are formative years for a child. He didn't become what he became overnight......then again his BFF Kam seemed to have had a different upbringing with both parents - yet something happened there too. I'm not saying it was the parents faults either - I just wonder what types of red flags were alerted to their legal guardians throughout the years and how they were handled or was something simple as "oh he/she will just outgrow it, it's a phase" as is often found to be a thought process of parents. (I say that based on experienced having worked in the education system for 25 years)

 

[Arizona 123]

Deet insect repellant, mosquito head net hat protector?

Good thought. I wonder if they'd experienced the biting insect swarms by that stage in their journey? Hrmmm. A quick web search shows that northern and central Saskatchewan do have biting fly problems in the summer months.

 

[srper2]

Well Lucas and Chynna's murders probably would have been unsolved anyway had they not decided "burn your car and leave it next to a murder scene" is a viable crime strategy. Let's just say that clearly these guys have never watched Forensic Files.

And, like, if you're trying to get away with crime, committing more crime is the exact opposite of what you should be doing! But then the weird thing is, it seems like they immediately realized they messed up with Prof Dyck's murder, since they became fugitives and willingly entered this inhospitable hellscape before they were even named as suspects. But then why did they decide burning the car was a good idea in the first place? Like the whole thing just makes no sense at all!

It is interesting to see someone even adding the expression "like" repeatedly into their writing!

 

[katydid23]

I'm still trying to comprehend these drive times. There was this report that the Grandmother Carol Starkey spoke to them on July 13th or 14th and they said Whitehorse wasn't what they thought it would be. It's a 36 hour drive from Port Alberni to Whitehorse. How on earth did Kam and Bryer make it to Whitehorse in one or two days and decide they didn't like it. That's a lot of driving and no sleeping and it's so hard the body & mind. I remember (two years ago today in fact) I drove home after the Solar Eclipse in Nebraska after spending the night and it took me 14.5 hours to get home (just outside Minneapolis) in the eclipse traffic and construction and I will tell you after 14.5 hours of doing all the driving I was down for the count. By the time I got home I was so completely exhausted I was seeing shooting stars and hallucinating seeing deer. Now had Kam and Breyer done the 36 hour drive with stops over night and sleeping in the camper I would estimate it took them at least 3 days to get up there. I also remember I did a 26 hour drive to Seattle myself and with 12-14 hours a day on the road and stopping at night. It still took me three straight days to get to Seattle from just across the border from Minneapolis in Wisconsin.

UPDATE: Missing men now suspects in northern B.C. murder cases - KamloopsMatters.com

I think they lied to Grandma when they pretended that they had been to Whitehorse. They probably never even went anywhere near Whitehorse, but called Grandma and said 'it wasn't what we thought it would be' ....and continued their crazy hellish journey on their own.

 

[musicaljoke]

Are we sure that the haircuts couldn't have happened? I realise that the burnt truck/camper was found on Friday, July 19th, but it wasn't burning at the time. The fire and murder could have happened sooner, even a couple of days sooner, could it not?

We haven't been given a time of death for Mr. Dyck, have we? We also don't know when he started his drive back south.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem that we can positively rule out the haircuts. I think that the person who did the beard cut would be able to remember their work. It's a rather unique cut for which there would be few requests.

 

[Grouper]

Are we sure that the haircuts couldn't have happened? I realise that the burnt truck/camper was found on Friday, July 19th, but it wasn't burning at the time. The fire and murder could have happened sooner, even a couple of days sooner, could it not?

We haven't been given a time of death for Mr. Dyck, have we? We also don't know when he started his drive back south.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem that we can positively rule out the haircuts. I think that the person who did the beard cut would be able to remember their work. It's a rather unique cut for which there would be few requests.

(Hi, first post ever!!) while it would be an interesting piece of uncovered information — would potentially explain why we were told they “may have changed their appearance” at one point — I have to agree timelines feel impossible, unless I’m missing something?

 

[copkid]

Are we sure that the haircuts couldn't have happened? I realise that the burnt truck/camper was found on Friday, July 19th, but it wasn't burning at the time. The fire and murder could have happened sooner, even a couple of days sooner, could it not?

We haven't been given a time of death for Mr. Dyck, have we? We also don't know when he started his drive back south.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem that we can positively rule out the haircuts. I think that the person who did the beard cut would be able to remember their work. It's a rather unique cut for which there would be few requests.

I cannot seem to link the MSM reports at the moment, but all reports seem to indicate the truck was found "burning", present tense.

The news reports do not say "burnt", past tense.

To me that says it was discovered while still burning. JMO

 

[SnooperDuper]

I don't disagree at all, however if he was on court order not allowed to see his son from 5 to 12 years old - what type of parenting was mom doing? I think the point I question is all those nazi items and other odd possessions of Bryer were kept at someone's house either his mom's or his grandmothers. Who was making the educational and the learning needs for Bryer if dad was out of the picture. Those were/are formative years for a child. He didn't become what he became overnight......then again his BFF Kam seemed to have had a different upbringing with both parents - yet something happened there too. I'm not saying it was the parents faults either - I just wonder what types of red flags were alerted to their legal guardians throughout the years and how they were handled or was something simple as "oh he/she will just outgrow it, it's a phase" as is often found to be a thought process of parents. (I say that based on experienced having worked in the education system for 25 years)

Maybe AS thinks that if he were part of his kid's life, everything would be different, but I don't think so. I think his claims against his wife are rather hyperbolic and the real issue was the conflict between the parents and not the parents themselves. I don't think AS would have been any kind of saviour. He seems to have a bit of a screwed up life and it is questionable that he would have been a good role model.

By all accounts, both families were totally blown away by this and only knew the two as we sometimes do, quiet and polite. There is in fact evidence of them being courteous and shy, though people like to forget that. Hindsight is 20/20 vision and I don't think you can go back in time and say this or that action on behalf of the parents would have "saved" them. I am sure their issues were bigger than just their family lives.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I don't disagree at all, however if he was on court order not allowed to see his son from 5 to 12 years old - what type of parenting was mom doing? I think the point I question is all those nazi items and other odd possessions of Bryer were kept at someone's house either his mom's or his grandmothers. Who was making the educational and the learning needs for Bryer if dad was out of the picture. Those were/are formative years for a child. He didn't become what he became overnight......

There's still a lot we don't know. What we do know, among other things, is that according to the court records he most likely witnessed domestic violence from a young age (domestic violence doesn't have to be physical, it can be threats too) and probably saw his dad getting arrested on both his 8th birthday and Christmas among other things. It's also worth noting that his neighbor described his home life from ages 11-13 (so, long after his dad was out of the picture) as "s****y" and said that he was over at her house all the time playing with her son because he couldn't have fun at his own house. However his neighbor did not elaborate any more than that. Also from my experience if family dysfunction actually makes it to the court system, chances are the vast majority of it is going under the radar.

then again his BFF Kam seemed to have had a different upbringing with both parents - yet something happened there too.

Well...we know hardly anything about his background. All we can say is that his family had a lot more money and that so far there's no evidence they were ever in the court system.

It is interesting to see someone even adding the expression "like" repeatedly into their writing!

My So-Called Life: True Crime Edition.

 

[copkid]

Are we sure that the haircuts couldn't have happened? I realise that the burnt truck/camper was found on Friday, July 19th, but it wasn't burning at the time. The fire and murder could have happened sooner, even a couple of days sooner, could it not?

We haven't been given a time of death for Mr. Dyck, have we? We also don't know when he started his drive back south.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem that we can positively rule out the haircuts. I think that the person who did the beard cut would be able to remember their work. It's a rather unique cut for which there would be few requests.

https://www.terracestandard.com/news/body-burning-truck-found-near-dease-lake/

Truck still burning when found.

 

[Link Haze]

That co-op store in Meadow lake wasn't too easy to find, as it doesn't seem to show up in major search engines. In case anyone is wondering precisely where it is, it's here;
Google Maps
If you look in the reflection as the suspects exit the door (in the meadow lake vid), you see the building across the street (still has the same paint job).

I'd love to know what those two were looking for in that hardware store. They went down an aisle marked "seasonal" but I can't make out what sort of items were actually on the aisle. K did seem to be looking for something, and they seemed to know where they were going (maybe they'd asked as they entered?).

Looking for bug spray.

 

[Bluedaisy100]

The drive from Port Alberni to Liard Hot Springs is 25 hours straight through. They started off on July 12 with presumably one driver who would have to stop, eat, fuel the truck and sleep among other things. By the night of July 14/15 two people were dead. Given what we know about the victims' character: kind, engaging, nonconfrontational, it's hard to imagine how they in any way provoked the attack. This points to the perps having an intention to kill vulnerable strangers that did not threaten them. It's amazing how different the 3 victims were. But even more amazing how alike they were. It would be hard to find more utterly blameless victims given what we know of their lives and histories (except maybe for child victims). Once the perps knew they could be associated with the first murders, their solution was to find another vulnerable (as in kindhearted) person to kill. It's the third murder that really nails their intentions in that it was totally gratuitous. I'm not saying they are masterminds but I do say they intended to hunt for victims to murder.

 

[LoisLane]

That co-op store in Meadow lake wasn't too easy to find, as it doesn't seem to show up in major search engines. In case anyone is wondering precisely where it is, it's here;
Google Maps
If you look in the reflection as the suspects exit the door (in the meadow lake vid), you see the building across the street (still has the same paint job).

I'd love to know what those two were looking for in that hardware store. They went down an aisle marked "seasonal" but I can't make out what sort of items were actually on the aisle. K did seem to be looking for something, and they seemed to know where they were going (maybe they'd asked as they entered?).

The ML Co-op carries quite a bit of camping, hunting, outdoor supplies. Here are some interior photos of the store taken from their website:
Service Centre and Agro | Meadow Lake Co-op

I think seasonal starts around aisle 12 (shown in photos). They may have also used the washroom which are typically in the back of the buildings.

ETA..
- restroom banner in blue hanging from ceiling.
- rifles on back wall under mounted deer head.

 

[CinNC]

There’s a reason they say the bugs in the north drive animals like caribou crazy!

I've read quite a bit about mosquitoes and history. Their presence has actually changed the course of history when they were so ubiquitous as to be unbearable. Smithsonian's website says. "Even the U.S. owes its independence in part to mosquitoes and malaria. In 1780, the southern colonies, a region with widespread malaria, became a decisive theater in the American Revolution. ... No one knew that mosquitoes carried malaria, and the British did not have the means to combat it."

If the insects can drive moose and caribou to migrate in specific patterns to avoid them, I doubt if a few unprepared "campers" could deal with it for even a day. (Understatement of the century)