Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #17

[Zella]

Also regarding clothing. Do none of you have teenage boys? Seirously, I would bet it was 100% lazyness why they didn't change. Gamers especially (ones I have known) spend days in their rooms without showering, changing, etc. Not just gamers though, teenage boys, and guys in their 20s. Not showering or changing their clothes daily is really common, disgustingly lol

SBM

My roommate in college was a gamer and her male gamer friends were absolutely disgusting hygiene-wise.

That being said, Bryer and Kam have always looked pretty clean in any picture of them that I've seen even from before the crime spree. And in the store footage, their clothes--and their hair and faces--look clean, and as mentioned before, they apparently did change clothes because the constables reported they were in different clothes the next day.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/first-nation-constable-stopped-homicide-suspects-1.5230779

I don't think either of them were neat freaks, especially based on the dumpster they turned the RAV4 into, but I think they might have been particular about their appearances.

 

[MistyWaters]

That's true but they could have snuck things in or out last minute, if they were really planning this. Or said "we don't want to be carrying all this stuff around because we don't know where we will be staying, we don't want anyone to break in and steal it, etc. so we're just going to travel light."

If they had preplanned the need for survival gear they needn’t have bought it and snuck it in the camper at Port Alberni. They could’ve just waited and bought it somewhere along the road, unless they chose to rob and murder innocent people instead.

 

[NJSleuth91]

SBM

My roommate in college was a gamer and her male gamer friends were absolutely disgusting hygiene-wise.

That being said, Bryer and Kam have always looked pretty clean in any picture of them that I've seen even from before the crime spree. And in the store footage, their clothes--and their hair and faces--look clean, and as mentioned before, they apparently did change clothes because the constables reported they were in different clothes the next day.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/first-nation-constable-stopped-homicide-suspects-1.5230779

I don't think either of them were neat freaks, especially based on the dumpster they turned the RAV4 into, but I think they might have been particular about their appearances.

I wonder if that kind of went with the "militia" thing. Like, if you're in the military, you're supposed to maintain your appearance and hygiene whenever possible.

 

[NJSleuth91]

If they had preplanned the need for survival gear they needn’t have bought it and snuck it in the camper at Port Alberni. They could’ve just waited and bought it somewhere along the road, unless they chose to rob and murder innocent people instead.

Yeah but it doesn't really seem like they did. I mean, maybe they did, but I don't get the sense that they went into the woods super prepared or anything.

 

[Zella]

I wonder if that kind of went with the "militia" thing. Like, if you're in the military, you're supposed to maintain your appearance and hygiene whenever possible.

I could see that definitely motivating Bryer. He seemed to be the one with the more martial/militia interests. MOO

 

[MistyWaters]

Yeah, the RCMP confirmed the Cold Lake incident: Cold Lake residents shaken after B.C. murder suspects spotted in Alberta town

There isn't much along the highway between Cold Lake and Meadow Lake, and, relatively speaking, it isn't too great of a distance.

I wonder if they cleaned up immediately after the mud incident while still in Cold Lake. The Cold Lake Provincial Park isn't too far from where we figured the Rav got stuck, and it would have day use areas with washrooms, etc. They could clean up quickly, wash a shirt in the sink and dry under a handdryer or just go shirtless for a little while as it dries along the way to Meadow Lake. They do look pretty clean at the Co-op though!

JMO

I think the facilities at the Cold Lake Provincial Park is the most likely place for two muddy young men to clean themselves up as well. The guy who pulled out the stuck RAV4 may’ve even mentioned it.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yeah but it doesn't really seem like they did. I mean, maybe they did, but I don't get the sense that they went into the woods super prepared or anything.

Yes but there’s really no one definition of survival gear. The truck and camper were burned on July 19th, the RAV4 on the. 22nd and the RCMP indicated they were believed to have been alive for a few days when their bodies were found on Aug 7th, so possible for at least a week. How they sustained themselves, where they slept, what was their food supply, we don’t know yet.

I don’t think any survival gear would’ve prepared them for where they ended up at IMO. To a lot of people survival gear is what is required to drive to a hiking spot, part, walk a couple of hours on an established trail, set up camp and then go home to a nice, warm house in a day or two.

 

[Jan424]

From what I remember, there were multiple witnesses.

I agree though, that is really strange and I can't really think of an explanation. Just what we need, more things in this case that make no sense.



It strikes me as perfectly congruent with the rest of their "we have no idea what we're doing" behavior. Plus the guy said they looked at each other before giving their real names, so clearly there was some sort of "is this okay?" nonverbal exchange.



You can't really see their boots that well in the footage, but if it had been a few hours, if the mud dried it would just flake off, or they could have wiped it off.

Yes that’s true... I didn’t think of that.

SBM

My roommate in college was a gamer and her male gamer friends were absolutely disgusting hygiene-wise.

That being said, Bryer and Kam have always looked pretty clean in any picture of them that I've seen even from before the crime spree. And in the store footage, their clothes--and their hair and faces--look clean, and as mentioned before, they apparently did change clothes because the constables reported they were in different clothes the next day.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/first-nation-constable-stopped-homicide-suspects-1.5230779

I don't think either of them were neat freaks, especially based on the dumpster they turned the RAV4 into, but I think they might have been particular about their appearances.

That has been my opinion as well. I admit that aspect is fascinating to me given they were fugitives on the run, wanted for 3 murders.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I don’t think any survival gear would’ve prepared them for where they ended up at IMO. To a lot of people survival gear is what is required to drive to a hiking spot, part, walk a couple of hours on an established trail, set up camp and then go home to a nice, warm house in a day or two.

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. I don't think they prepared to hide out in the woods for weeks or months, which indicates it wasn't their plan all along.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. I don't think they prepared to hide out in the woods for weeks or months, which indicates it wasn't their plan all along.

I don’t think it was either. My best guess, due to their narrow scope of the world, they really did believe they’d be successful in finding a town somewhere in the north to hide, someplace where nobody would question them, job opportunities would be lucrative, police would continue to look for them only in BC and life would go on.

But they were hooped for two reasons -
- the Meadow Lake sighting and possibly cell or purchase card tracking caught their trail east from BC. Their names, description and photo became front page news.
- many of the northern communities marked on a map are not towns or villages at all, they’re First Nation reserves. Others are close knit communities were strangers stand out like a sore thumb and even small towns can have a RCMP detachment because it also polices the vast surrounding territory.

So what may’ve began as a confident escape plan, I think began to slowly sour the further east they drove, as they began to realize the refuge they sought was merely an illusion.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I don’t think it was either. My best guess, due to their narrow scope of the world, they really did believe they’d be successful in finding a town somewhere in the north to hide, someplace where nobody would question them, job opportunities would be lucrative, police would continue to look for them only in BC and life would go on.

But they were hooped for two reasons -
- the Meadow Lake sighting and possibly cell or purchase card tracking caught their trail east from BC. Their names, description and photo became front page news.
- many of the northern communities marked on a map are not towns or villages at all, they’re First Nation reserves. Others are close knit communities were strangers stand out like a sore thumb and even small towns can have a RCMP detachment because it also polices the vast surrounding territory.

So what may’ve began as a confident escape plan, I think began to slowly sour the further east they drove, as they began to realize the refuge they sought was merely an illusion.

Would they really be that dumb, though? And would they really do no research on the area, if their lives depended on it? And would they really think that the search for triple murderers would be limited to one province? I feel like anyone who has even so much as watched any type of crime show ever, knows that wouldn't be true. And would they really think, as people who lived in a small-ish town their entire lives, that two 6'4"+ teenagers could just show up in a small town with vague backstories and gossip wouldn't go around? I don't think they were that stupid, even though they weren't smart.

Plus, they must have seen that Lucas and Chynna's murders got a ton of coverage. I remember even seeing it on the news at the laundromat right after it happened, and I'm not even in the same country.

 

[Esprite]

I think the facilities at the Cold Lake Provincial Park is the most likely place for two muddy young men to clean themselves up as well. The guy who pulled out the stuck RAV4 may’ve even mentioned it.

Perhaps they went for a dip in the lake, and cleaned their clothing, boots, etc.

 

[Zella]

I think they were partially banking on it being summer. So, they knew they'd stand out but also figured people would just think they were tourists on a summer vacation. MOO

 

[NJSleuth91]

I think they were partially banking on it being summer. So, they knew they'd stand out but also figured people would just think they were tourists on a summer vacation. MOO

Even so, I just can't see them being dumb enough to think that two baby-faced teenagers murdering three people (two of which were from other countries) and torching their vehicle before going on the run in a stolen car, would not be all over the news. Plus, if this had been planned, they probably would have had a good chance of getting away with it because they would have not made the very obvious mistakes they did.

 

[sandbar]

dbm

 

[Zella]

Even so, I just can't see them being dumb enough to think that two baby-faced teenagers murdering three people (two of which were from other countries) and torching their vehicle before going on the run in a stolen car, would not be all over the news. Plus, if this had been planned, they probably would have had a good chance of getting away with it because they would have not made the very obvious mistakes they did.

Agreed! I'm not sure much of this was planned at all, but I do think once they were on the escape joy-ride and before it was announced that they were missing/suspects, they figured people would just assume they were 2 guys on a cross-country camping trip/road trip, and so their presence might be memorable but not necessarily weird in a small town in the middle of nowhere.

 

[sandbar]

I think they thought roaming around the wilderness and shooting people would be cool. And then they found out they weren't in a video game. A Websleuther, @10ofRods? suggested they were in, more of an ad hoc state, making plans as they go. And that makes sense to me.

They covered a lot of ground in a short period of time. And to me that requires assistance of some kind, especially if we believe that BS didn't/couldn't/wouldn't drive, like maybe caffiene, energy drinks, junk food, adrenalin, no sleep, or whatever, a combo of all. None of that leads to good discisions...

 

[srper2]

The image at Fairview made me realize how handsome Kam was. I suddenly felt heartbroken for his mom and dad. Why throw it all away? I still can't get my head around it.

And we all feel especially heartbroken for his victims and their families

 

[LoisLane]

About K&B's illogical packing of a gaming computer and other things: Hasn't anyone ever overpacked for a trip? Hasn't anyone under-packed for a trip? Hasn't anyone opened their suitcase and thought, "What was I thinking, bringing that?" I have and I'm somewhat a seasoned traveller. It's impossible to speculate about why anyone does anything, isn't it?

It's clear the social net (not social network) but the mesh that holds a society together failed. But it failed a looooong time before they packed their computers and a suit in a camper.

Maybe the packing of the computers made the moving out / working away from home story more believable. They must be serious if they took their towers...

 

[sandbar]

And we all feel especially heartbroken for his victims and their families

I've heard KM has a sibling and I think BS had a half-sib. Can anyone confirm?

THAT'S gunna be rough.

Imagine being a freaked-out parent of a friend of K/B's sib? Or K/B's sib's teacher? It's nuts how far reaching this tradegy/mind f▪︎☆k is, and that's just in the alleged purps' "sphere".