Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #17

[sandbar]

I wasn't suggesting they turned straight back. I was saying the grandmother was unclear on the date they called her. I was also giving my own opinion that I have seen nothing to prove to me they were at the place CD and LF were murdered at the time they were murdered.

Because the RCMP haven't released that info.

 

[Jan424]

Whatever it was, AS was deliberately excluded and missed an important step in his grieving process.

But the only thing we know for sure is that AS has not seen the video, and I agree he does need to see that. Unless, of course, Bryer stated not to show him (and I'm not of the belief he did that). Otherwise, we have no definite information on whether he was "excluded" from any funeral or burial. I can see him assuming there was some sort of service, but that simply may not be correct.

 

[Jan424]

If that is the case, he should be told that as well. JMO

Yes, maybe. But the acrimony between Bryer's parents seems to have diminished little in all these years. JMO

 

[srper2]

I cannot find much follow up on this report?
Gillam's only taxi driver, Amar Sahota, believes he talked to one of fugitives on the afternoon of Monday, July 22. Mr Sahota told News Corp Australia he knows 95 per cent of the clients who call for a cab in the town of 500 where he has worked for 13 years. Aug 7, 2019
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph
(sorry, a paywall link, can't find a free link)

 

[srper2]

But the only thing we know for sure is that AS has not seen the video, and I agree he does need to see that. Unless, of course, Bryer stated not to show him (and I'm not of the belief he did that). Otherwise, we have no definite information on whether he was "excluded" from any funeral or burial. I can see him assuming there was some sort of service, but that simply may not be correct.

He was not given the chance to see the video and he believes he was also not given information regarding Bryer's funeral (if there has been one). Not giving him information regarding these details is excluding him from information that is important to him.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Like, let's put it this way. Why would they be like, "Ok here's the plan. Let's tell both my parents and your grandma one thing, and then let's tell your dad who lives 2.5 hours away and who you only see twice a month another thing, because of reasons." I know these guys operated on their own system of logic, but even for them, that doesn't make any sense.

What does make sense though is if they told their parents they had a solid plan to go to Whitehorse to look for jobs so their parents were like "wow they really planned this out, so let's give them some money and the truck and camper!" But then maybe when they set out they were like "hmm maybe we should go to Alberta instead" and then if Bryer realized "crap, my dad was supposed to visit today" and texted his dad en route, he said they were going to Alberta. And then they were like "nvm let's go to the Yukon" and so that explains why their most likely route (see map I posted a few posts back) includes them going all the way across BC into Alberta and then going north.

I sometimes notice when people are habitual liars they forget their lies, they'll say one thing then it changes as they forgot (or just don't care) they lied about it in the first place.

Or for all we know their plans legitimately changed. They might've just wanted to hit the road with no destination (more fun and exciting I think) but knew the family would want them to have a least a bit of a "plan" so they winged it a little in what they told them perhaps.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I think the different stories helped them with carrying out their exit of PA. Certain stories to different people fits those people’s expectations (approval) and could also serve the sons in getting what they need to get out. Cash, gas cards, transportation, etc.

Exactly! What she said ^^

 

[Jan424]

I tend to agree, that's part of it.

After all, they did put one of the Boston Bombers on the cover of Rolling Stone. Not a mug shot, a modeling-type shot.

I'm here in the Boston area, and I thought that was pretty abominable.

 

[FactFinder3000]

But the only thing we know for sure is that AS has not seen the video, and I agree he does need to see that. Unless, of course, Bryer stated not to show him (and I'm not of the belief he did that). Otherwise, we have no definite information on whether he was "excluded" from any funeral or burial. I can see him assuming there was some sort of service, but that simply may not be correct.

I agree. All parents should be shown the video. And I believe AS will be shown the video.

I think we need to take a step back, though, and see clearly what has happened here.

Kam and Bryer have recorded what is said to be their "last will and testament."

Somebody quite rightly pointed out that a video will is not a valid will in Canada. So I think that's where a lot of confusion set in. The video is not a will, so nothing to do with wills applies to it, other than the fact that it is not a will.

What it comes down to is a question of who gets control of the body. What we know for a fact is that the RCMP determined that was not AS. I think it's safe to assume it was either Bryer's mother or grandmother.

The RCMP also decided, since Bryer in the video states what he wants done with his body, that the relevant contents of the video should be provided to the person who has control of the body.

So that's where we're at right now.

 

[Gina20]

So, it appears we've settled for squeezing facts into fitting an unlikely official 'narrative' - triple murder and joint suicide by a couple of nerds. Just my opinion from reading through the latest posts, which I trust isn't breaking websleuth rules.

I was looking for the post of the longer version of Lucas and Chynna's cctv hug at the gas station. Someone posted it before the shutdowns, with a very subtle 'what do you see?' comment. I wanted to reply to that question.

In the original shorter clip, we don't yet see the white saloon pull up alongside the van between it and the store; this happens toward the end of the longer version. Three guys in this vehicle park alongside the van but aren't interested in getting gas. That'd be unusual in itself given the distances between gas stations, but what is also disturbing is that a rear passenger gets out and briefly enters the store where Lucas and Chynna are already inside, before returning to the vehicle and driving away. Inside cctv security footage of those few minutes would be interesting.

The car also simply seems out of place in a region whereby trucks are the norm. Why this hasn't interested an rcmp investigator is anyone's guess, but I'd think at the very least the plates would be worth checking out. Any of the passengers have a beard, resemble the sketch maybe?

Now in light of that, when we rewind the video, the hug takes on an entirely different possibility. Is Chynna reassuring Lucas, following some road altercation? Did the white car double back looking for them, then followed them into the store to confirm they were traveling alone?

We will never know, or more likely, never be told as the LE focus now seems entirely on fitting up the two nerds with convenient motive, which necessitates more convolution with each inspection.

They surely met evil on their ill-fated trip, but rcmp will struggle to prove they're the actual killers, no matter how long they can delay reporting to the citizenry.

Then there's that tricky triviality of folk being innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

So I went looking for people in groups along the Alaska Highway, with guns, and came up with this, further south in Fort Saint John:

Four charged with kidnapping in Fort St. John

This one's a fugitive:

Fort St John RCMP on the search for wanted person - Energeticcity.ca

For comparison:

Man sought in Alaska Highway murder investigation

How do you compare heights when driving by in semi-darkness, and two people are separated by a stretch of road?

 

[Jan424]

DBM

 

[Lalalacasbah]

It was reported they met in Port Alberni, Redford Motel not sure where you heard Nanaimo?

Just curious is there a significance to this motel do you know? Is it close to the highway? Maybe it's between their two homes and easy to meet at?

Here I go being cynical (yet serious) again... another detail that sounds right out of a movie. They don't meet at a Booster Juice or Tim Hortons to get a drink/snack for the road but allegedly at a motel that kinda looks right out of a movie. The motel looks kinda old-fashioned or something a bit kitchsy to me, JMOO.

 

[CanadianMade]

The shortest route to Whitehorse and back to Laird is at least 40 hours of straight driving time, in 3 days. Why would be the reason they’d drive to Whitehorse and then immediately leave, if job hunting was their intention?

The person they met who initially said they could help them find work didn't pan out? They thought there was more work up there than there actually was? The pay wasn't what they epxected? The place they had planned on parking and camping for the first while didn't pan out? One of them got home sick? They didn't like the smell of the air? There could be a number of reasons why they would do that.....If we can speculate on Why they MAY have murdered 3 people, why can we not do the same for why they may have opted out of looking for work in Whitehorse?

 

[Jan424]

I've wondered if it was just a joy-ride (not necessarily a planned murder/suicide spree) from the beginning, and they both told stories that they thought sounded good to whoever was listening as an excuse for why they were quitting jobs and leaving town, knowing nobody was going to compare notes.
I go back and forth on whether it was all planned, but I could see even if it was unplanned, things could have still taken a dark turn as they're driving around aimlessly on this joy-ride and see a van on the side of the road in the middle of the night.

MOO

I've gone back and forth since it all began .... one day I think it had to be planned, the next I think, nope, it wasn't. One thing though that nags at me .... things went so bad so very quickly. Only a few days into their joy-ride. So KM & BS had to have had prior discussions about robbery, shooting, etc, I would think. I cannot see shooting and robbing coming entirely out of absolute nowhere. Of course, that's JMO, for whatever its worth.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I've gone back and forth since it all began .... one day I think it had to be planned, the next I think, nope, it wasn't. One thing though that nags at me .... things went so bad so very quickly. Only a few days into their joy-ride. So KM & BS had to have had prior discussions about robbery, shooting, etc, I would think. I cannot see shooting and robbing coming entirely out of absolute nowhere. Of course, that's JMO, for whatever its worth.

It's easy to go back and forth as they seem so scattered. I still think it was 90% planned:

- I think the getting the jobs at Walmart was part of the plan from the get-go, it was never meant to be a long term job but a means to an end to make some cash
- If one of them got their PAL, that was part of a plan
- Buying two guns was part of a plan
- Coming up with a story that maybe spiraled into more lies to family part of a plan

I think the computer towers were packed because torching the vehicle was always part of the plan - they wanted to burn ALL evidence and every single internet search they did (in an odd I think possible they didn't want their families to know all they searched).

If they got PAL and guns to learn to hunt, I think we would've heard by now of them escorting hunters or friends who hunt on trips to learn to hunt before going on their own. I don't think they had any intention to hunt animals.

I think the "scattered" part comes in as I think they were extremely naive expecting it to be like a movie road trip and their plan kinda fell apart because what looks good on paper, doesn't necessarily unfold like that "in real life" when unpredictable humans are involved. Sounds like they never ventured away from home on their own before and it shows in their mistakes. Totally MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

What it comes down to is a question of who gets control of the body. What we know for a fact is that the RCMP determined that was not AS. I think it's safe to assume it was either Bryer's mother or grandmother.

The RCMP said the body has been released to BS's mother in the email to AS's lawyer.

 

[FactFinder3000]

Just curious is there a significance to this motel do you know? Is it close to the highway? Maybe it's between their two homes and easy to meet at?

Here I go being cynical (yet serious) again... another detail that sounds right out of a movie. They don't meet at a Booster Juice or Tim Hortons to get a drink/snack for the road but allegedly at a motel that kinda looks right out of a movie. The motel looks kinda old-fashioned or something a bit kitchsy to me, JMOO.

View attachment 200150

We were told AS would drive from Victoria to Port Alberni and get a room for the night. It's about a 2.5 hour drive from Victoria to Port Alberni. I would assume this Motel used has no significance other than it is in Port Alberni.

It does seem slightly odd that he would get a room, since that's quite a bit of money (about $100), but for whatever reason that's what he did. Some people don't like driving at night. Maybe he liked to have a few drinks. Maybe they just needed a place to hang out.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

We were told AS would drive from Victoria to Port Alberni and get a room for the night. It's about a 2.5 hour drive from Victoria to Port Alberni. I would assume this Motel used has no significance other than it is in Port Alberni.

It does seem slightly odd that he would get a room, since that's quite a bit of money (about $100), but for whatever reason that's what he did. Some people don't like driving at night. Maybe he liked to have a few drinks. Maybe they just needed a place to hang out.

Oops I think I misunderstood - I thought Kam and Bryer met at this motel before hitting the road on their road trip, which I thought a strange place to meet and kick off a trip.

I didn't realize it was where Bryer met his dad! Every accommodation on Vancouver Island has gotten pricey, even the older motels. It's hard to find anything on a budget.

The drive from Victoria to PA is not one I'd do in one day. It could take longer if coming back to Victoria in hitting rush hour (a commute I used to do and it's awful). Also the Malahat Highway can be problematic if an accident (can shut down for hours) and also not a great stretch to drive at night. And he might've liked to have a couple drink to unwind, hang out or just take a break from a long drive as you say.

 

[SovereignSnake]

Also another thing, if they hadn't decided on the Yukon vs. Alberta when they left, that would actually make sense with their route. Since they went to Liard Hot Springs, given the amount of time it took to get there, we can assume the route they took was all the way on the other side of the province from Port Alberni. It actually would have been five hours faster to go to Whitehorse via a more western route. The only way their route really makes sense is if they were undecided when they set out, and just decided to figure it out along the way. I'm leaning towards it wasn't a planned deception (since it really would not have accomplished anything), and was just that they weren't sure where to go. And maybe they made it sound to their parents/guardians that their destination was more concrete, so they wouldn't be like "you guys don't even know where you're going?"

View attachment 200105

Agree 100% I know people have speculated that they did drive to Alberta and then back into British Columbia but I still don't believe this was the case at all. I don't think Alberta ever happened. Notice that final text message from Alan; "Did you get 'there' yet?" I think even Alan knew none of their plans were set in stone. I think Alberta was more of an indecent proposal, like hey we don't really know where we're going, might go to Yukon, might drop in and see [cousins names] in Alberta. We just know we're hittin the road, doing a little impromptu camping, going with the flow and we'll see what happens. Also as you said, not to worry anyone, particularly Kam's parents and Bryer's Grandma I suspect.

 

[SovereignSnake]

Very interesting observations on the messages!

If you've got it right (and if I'm not misinterpreting) then B had no cellular service plan. I don't know much about smartphones, but I'm assuming they (Apple ones, apparently, in this case) can use things like Skype (or similar) in WiFi mode?

So, maybe out of financial need (I've heard cellular plans for smartphones cost a lot) B was using just internet, and a VOIP type setup if he wanted to make a phone call? If so, this might explain a lot. If the phone wasn't able to connect to cell towers, it'd be darn hard to track when in use. IP trace when using WiFi is possible, but a VPN is pretty common these days and would largely foil that.

So, I'm wondering... it's always seemed odd to me that they were in a back "alley" in Cold Lake, driving around (until they got stuck). But, it makes sense if they were war driving (looking for open access points, like unsecured or poorly secured home WiFI).

Android and Apple can both use Skype. I have Skype but I never use it. In most cases iMessage for Facebook messenger are always the default routes to take when you have internet access but no signal. Also, when friends haven't been able to afford their monthly bill and their phones get "shut off" they do the same. Smart phone bills can be so expensive. Unless you're "grandfathered in" with an old cheaper plan like I am on T-Mobile. But then factor in a leasing fee for a new phone, plus insurance, plus a data plan and you will be well over 100 dollars a month. It's ridiculous. It's no wonder the majority of my friends, in their late 20's and early to mid 30's are still on family plans with their parents or siblings. Totally understandable why an 18 year old boy didn't have a cellphone provider and just used it's Wi-Fi capabilities. Kam on the other hand I suspect had a family plan, thus did have a provider. This also got me thinking about the phone recovered with their bodies. Was it Bryer's, Kam's or even possibly Leonard's as I mentioned briefly a few days ago. I also wondered too, obviously they kept the phone off the majority of the time to preserve the battery but did they turn it on once a day so they knew the current date? Even without a signal and the phone is turned off it still keeps the current date and time via the phone's "Real Time Clock." I'll also add, in regards to getting stuck in Cold Lake, I think the boys were driving through that little town in the middle of the night, Kam was very likely exhausted from all the driving, (it makes me exhausted just thinking about it) happened upon what looks to be the outskirts or an indiscreet part of Cold Lake and parked for the night to get some sleep. Just an opinion but I think that's exactly what happened.