Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #17

[Optics]

There are basically 2 types of 'industry' up north in the Yukon. 1. Road Construction; 2. Gold Mining. The work season is very short because of snow. This work on both 2 'work options' begins in the Spring, usually April and ends sometimes as early as beginning of October. Anyone LEGITIMATELY wanting to find work up there, aside from waiter in a restaurant, knows that. People do not go up in the middle of July to look for work unless they are specifically qualified and certified for something. Also in British Columbia most everyone knows that if you are young (like their age) and you actually want to make some bigger money working than minimum wage at somewhere like Walmart - then you go to Site C Dam construction or you go to the oil sands north of Fort McMurray in Alberta.

 

[FactFinder3000]

As far as I'm concerned this case is the story of what happens when a couple of homicidal, suicidal, armed teens hit the road looking for adventure. It sure doesn't look like they were looking for work. Maybe that was to come later.

Does it mean the phone never received them, or he just never clicked on the notification? It's kind of strange but not that strange because of the remote areas they were in. And if this was actually a "we can't take living in this town anymore" trip, maybe they didn't want to think about anyone or anything related to Port Alberni for a while. Then after the murders happened they obviously wouldn't use their phones because their locations could be tracked.

Also, question...were those sent through Facebook messenger or was it another app? Because a lot of times messages don't show up on time on my Facebook messenger.

It's the Messenger app, which is integrated into facebook. Either that or a clone.

It means the phone never received them. When the phone receives the message and displays a notification the circle gets colored in. After the recipient reads the message, it shows their icon, as you can see on the messages from Bryer that AS read.

 

[NJSleuth91]

It's the Messenger app, which is integrated into facebook. Either that or a clone.

It means the phone never received them. When the phone receives the message and displays a notification the circle gets colored in. After the recipient reads the message, it shows their icon, as you can see on the messages from Bryer that AS read.

Yeah I think it's possible that the app just didn't receive them. The Facebook messenger app is truly awful. Actually this literally just happened to me 10 minutes ago. I logged into Facebook on my computer and saw my friends were talking in our group chat, and it hadn't showed up on my phone at all.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

This makes the most sense to me regarding it being a planned trip. Particularly the computer towers going with them .... I always thought they didn't want anyone to get their hands on them (particularly law enforcement) to discover anything they might have done or searched online. JMO

I posted a couple articles way back about another teenage duo from Vancouver Island who tortured and murdered together and when LE searched their computer forensics there was 1.4 billion pieces of paper evidence used in court - that's how big the digital trail was.

I wouldn't be surprised if K&B knew of this info of the other killer duo as it was huge, shocking news on the island that teenagers were capable of this crime. K&B maybe wanted to cover their tracks better knowing this (hypothetical of course)!

 

[cartman]

Much of this case baffles me. But the whole “we’re headed to Whitehorse to look for work” and the subsequent “yeah we got there and it wasn’t for us so we just turned around and left” a couple days later is especially baffling. I do not believe they ever intended to go to Whitehorse, nor do I believe they ever made it there. Factors such as the time to drive there, the timing of their trip along with actual job prospects (thank you @Optics ) out there make zero sense to me.

For any Simpsons fans this part of the case reminds me when Bart and his friends got fake drivers licences, borrowed a car for a cross country joyride and told all of their parents they were off to the grammar rodeo.

Whitehorse = Grammar Rodeo

All MOO, of course.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I posted a couple articles way back about another teenage duo from Vancouver Island who tortured and murdered together and when LE searched their computer forensics there was 1.4 billion pieces of paper evidence used in court - that's how big the digital trail was.

I wouldn't be surprised if K&B knew of this info of the other killer duo as it was huge, shocking news on the island that teenagers were capable of this crime. K&B maybe wanted to cover their tracks better knowing this (hypothetical of course)!

If that was the case though, wouldn't they have burned the computer right after the first two murders, and maybe dumped it in the woods where nobody would find it? Why wait four days before burning it? And clearly they kept at least one phone which was probably linked to the same accounts. Plus it goes without saying that they did a terrible job of covering their tracks in general.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Android and Apple can both use Skype. I have Skype but I never use it. In most cases iMessage for Facebook messenger are always the default routes to take when you have internet access but no signal. Also, when friends haven't been able to afford their monthly bill and their phones get "shut off" they do the same. Smart phone bills can be so expensive. Unless you're "grandfathered in" with an old cheaper plan like I am on T-Mobile. But then factor in a leasing fee for a new phone, plus insurance, plus a data plan and you will be well over 100 dollars a month. It's ridiculous. It's no wonder the majority of my friends, in their late 20's and early to mid 30's are still on family plans with their parents or siblings. Totally understandable why an 18 year old boy didn't have a cellphone provider and just used it's Wi-Fi capabilities. Kam on the other hand I suspect had a family plan, thus did have a provider. This also got me thinking about the phone recovered with their bodies. Was it Bryer's, Kam's or even possibly Leonard's as I mentioned briefly a few days ago. I also wondered too, obviously they kept the phone off the majority of the time to preserve the battery but did they turn it on once a day so they knew the current date? Even without a signal and the phone is turned off it still keeps the current date and time via the phone's "Real Time Clock." I'll also add, in regards to getting stuck in Cold Lake, I think the boys were driving through that little town in the middle of the night, Kam was very likely exhausted from all the driving, (it makes me exhausted just thinking about it) happened upon what looks to be the outskirts or an indiscreet part of Cold Lake and parked for the night to get some sleep. Just an opinion but I think that's exactly what happened.

And somehow they supposedly managed to delete their FB profiles which I'm wondering why they did this. LE denied deleting them, so they must've and would've had internet access. I wonder what day that was. I'm trying to find the MSM article where LE denies the deletion.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

They still wouldn't have had time to look for work in Whitehorse though. That's why I think the call where they gave that alibi to their parents came after the first two murders.

Their actual driving schedule between July 12-14 (Port Alberni to Liard Hot Springs) seems to be about 10 hours of driving a day, which isn't too bad.

If they were just cruising for potential murder victims the entire time, you would think they would have gone slower, gone on the back roads a bit, etc.

I think they didn't want the murder to go unnoticed. I think they definitely wanted their names out there and notoriety hence the burning up of vehicles. Dare I say, maybe that's why they chose a young, attractive couple as they knew the media would jump on that and be all over that (which they shallowly and sadly do).

 

[Lalalacasbah]

If that was the case though, wouldn't they have burned the computer right after the first two murders, and maybe dumped it in the woods where nobody would find it? Why wait four days before burning it? And clearly they kept at least one phone which was probably linked to the same accounts. Plus it goes without saying that they did a terrible job of covering their tracks in general.

Not sure why they'd wait. Maybe waiting for opportunity to light up? It's all puzzling!

 

[FactFinder3000]

And somehow they supposedly managed to delete their FB profiles which I'm wondering why they did this. LE denied deleting them, so they must've and would've had internet access. I wonder what day that was. I'm trying to find the MSM article where LE denies the deletion.

Facebook routinely does this, I believe. As soon as they catch wind of something like this, *poof*, the accounts are gone.

 

[NJSleuth91]

And somehow they supposedly managed to delete their FB profiles which I'm wondering why they did this. LE denied deleting them, so they must've and would've had internet access. I wonder what day that was. I'm trying to find the MSM article where LE denies the deletion.

I thought Facebook deleted them. I actually found an archive of Bryer's Facebook on the Wayback Machine (it scrapes the web and archives snapshots of web pages) and I'm pretty sure it was archived on July 24th, which, if so, means they definitely didn't delete it.

I think they didn't want the murder to go unnoticed. I think they definitely wanted their names out there and notoriety hence the burning up of vehicles. Dare I say, maybe that's why they chose a young, attractive couple as they knew the media would jump on that and be all over that (which they shallowly and sadly do).

If that was the case you would think there would be more social media presence from both of them. Usually killers who are doing it for notoriety, like Elliott Rodger, use social media a lot more. And they could have really played up the "killer duo" aspect with cryptic messages to each other, etc. Instead they had a very small social media presence for teenagers. There's literally only one picture of them together (the butterflies one). Kam's Instagram posts were all from years ago and I don't think any of them were even pictures of him.

 

[cartman]

And somehow they supposedly managed to delete their FB profiles which I'm wondering why they did this. LE denied deleting them, so they must've and would've had internet access. I wonder what day that was. I'm trying to find the MSM article where LE denies the deletion.

I am thinking they accessed the internet and their social media at some point, maybe they had burner phones. I have previously posted about Bryer’s IG profile pic changing from the first time I viewed his profile and I wasn’t alone in noticing. It’s now a pic of him and Kam with the butterfly filter. It seems, in my opinion, that was to send a message about their bond together until the end.

 

[FactFinder3000]

Yeah I think it's possible that the app just didn't receive them. The Facebook messenger app is truly awful. Actually this literally just happened to me 10 minutes ago. I logged into Facebook on my computer and saw my friends were talking in our group chat, and it hadn't showed up on my phone at all.

It was 6 messages sent over the span of a couple days, still not received days later.

We can be pretty sure that the app didn't receive them. That's what the icon means. The likely explanation is that there was never any internet service. Other explanations are, of course, possible.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I am thinking they accessed the internet and their social media at some point, maybe they had burner phones. I have previously posted about Bryer’s IG profile pic changing from the first time I viewed his profile and I wasn’t alone in noticing. It’s now a pic of him and Kam with the butterfly filter. It seems, in my opinion, that was to send a message about their bond together until the end.

Do you know around what day it changed?

 

[MistyWaters]

There are basically 2 types of 'industry' up north in the Yukon. 1. Road Construction; 2. Gold Mining. The work season is very short because of snow. This work on both 2 'work options' begins in the Spring, usually April and ends sometimes as early as beginning of October. Anyone LEGITIMATELY wanting to find work up there, aside from waiter in a restaurant, knows that. People do not go up in the middle of July to look for work unless they are specifically qualified and certified for something. Also in British Columbia most everyone knows that if you are young (like their age) and you actually want to make some bigger money working than minimum wage at somewhere like Walmart - then you go to Site C Dam construction or you go to the oil sands north of Fort McMurray in Alberta.

I’d say it’s near impossible for young people with no prior experience nor qualifications to walk onto a job site and get hired in either Alberta or B.C., or anywhere in Canada for that matter. For one thing, HR is rarely located in the same location and employment standards involving equal hiring opportunity require all jobs be publicly advertised. The exception is smaller companies not under contract looking for casual, short term labour.

But I think it’s entirely possible B&K did lead their family to believe they were aware of a lucrative job opportunity, even if they were not, in order to experience freedom and the use of a truck and camper. A notion to suddenly quit their jobs at Walmart to go on an extended road trip which required a vehicle might not have went over very well. It wouldn’t be the first time teens have created a ruse to pull the wool over their parents eyes to do something that otherwise wouldn’t fly.

 

[sprucetip]

@NJSleuth91
Actually that blue line on the road map is not the alternate route people in BC usually take. They either take the Stewart Hwy (thru Dease Lake) or they go to Prince George and take the hwy up to Fort St. John and on to Fort Nelson then west toward Liard Hot Springs. (both of which are 32 hours) The 2 routes are the way more common ones. The route through Alberta is usually only if one lives near the Alberta border in southern and mid BC,

Yep. Though many prefer the AK hwy because the Cassiar hwy is much slower on average. Crappier road, slower speed limits. But often people choose it because it's quieter and more remote. More chances of seeing wildlife too. Did the remoteness factor into their travel route? If this was all pre-planned that is the way to go.

They still wouldn't have had time to look for work in Whitehorse though. That's why I think the call where they gave that alibi to their parents came after the first two murders.

Their actual driving schedule between July 12-14 (Port Alberni to Liard Hot Springs) seems to be about 10 hours of driving a day, which isn't too bad.

If they were just cruising for potential murder victims the entire time, you would think they would have gone slower, gone on the back roads a bit, etc.

No, definitely not enough time to actually LOOK for work in Whitehorse. The whole route is weird. Usually people take one hwy or the other, the doubling-back on from the AK hwy to the Cassiar is just odd. Maybe after the murders of L&C, they panicked, drove north to Watson Lake for a day or more, maybe staying somewhere super remote. From WL, there is the Robert Campbell hwy which is pretty remote, maybe they hid out for a couple days there? Hardly any traffic up there. Then came back down a different hwy because no way were they going past the murder site. Maybe that's when they realized the news was everywhere and panicked and realized they needed a new vehicle asap.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Facebook routinely does this, I believe. As soon as they catch wind of something like this, *poof*, the accounts are gone.

Wow really? I had no idea. Are they legally allowed? So nuts as they seem so tight to not give out info on folk's profiles but yet have the big brother power to delete at their discretion? Scary.

 

[cartman]

Do you know around what day it changed?

Early in the case when Bryer’s IG link was first posted here I had a look. Then about a week later I went back to look at their IG’s again because posters here were talking about a pic of him and Kam together and I had never seen a pic of the two of them together. I also wondered if Bryer’s IG was scrubbed as I thought there was more than one pic... but I’m not as certain on that one.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I am thinking they accessed the internet and their social media at some point, maybe they had burner phones. I have previously posted about Bryer’s IG profile pic changing from the first time I viewed his profile and I wasn’t alone in noticing. It’s now a pic of him and Kam with the butterfly filter. It seems, in my opinion, that was to send a message about their bond together until the end.

Their shrine to themselves I suppose. They ain't no Butch Cassidy or Sundance Kid that's for sure!

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I’d say it’s near impossible for young people with no prior experience nor qualifications to walk onto a job site and get hired in either Alberta or B.C., or anywhere in Canada for that matter. For one thing, HR is rarely located in the same location and employment standards involving equal hiring opportunity require all jobs be publicly advertised. The exception is smaller companies not under contract looking for casual, short term labour.

But I think it’s entirely possible B&K did lead their family to believe they were aware of a lucrative job opportunity, even if they were not, in order to experience freedom and the use of a truck and camper. A notion to suddenly quit their jobs at Walmart to go on an extended road trip which required a vehicle might not have went over very well. It wouldn’t be the first time teens have created a ruse to pull the wool over their parents eyes to do something that otherwise wouldn’t fly.

Totally agree. Not to mention some of the big jobs, good paying jobs require drug and alcohol testing if a dry camp/site and might be a longer hiring process than just a walk in off the street.