Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #17

[Jan424]

I am thinking they accessed the internet and their social media at some point, maybe they had burner phones. I have previously posted about Bryer’s IG profile pic changing from the first time I viewed his profile and I wasn’t alone in noticing. It’s now a pic of him and Kam with the butterfly filter. It seems, in my opinion, that was to send a message about their bond together until the end.

I believe butterflies are symbolic of resurrection, transformation or transition from an old life to a new life. I’ve no idea if they knew this or even if Bryer changed his IG photo while on the road, but it would explain all those pink butterflies. JMO

 

[SovereignSnake]

And somehow they supposedly managed to delete their FB profiles which I'm wondering why they did this. LE denied deleting them, so they must've and would've had internet access. I wonder what day that was. I'm trying to find the MSM article where LE denies the deletion.

That's a very good point, I can't remember when they exactly deleted their profiles either but I have a suspicion it was the RCMP. I do recall in the first days of August there being a fake account for Kam with his profile photo being a still from the Co-Op surveillance footage. It also said his current city was "Winnipeg." But that has since been deleted as well. The other interesting thing I noticed, those messages from Alan to Bryer were never actually received by Bryer. Notice the circles next to the messages are checked but they're not filled in. That means the messages were in the process of being sent but never marked as "read" or "received." In fact as of that 60 Minutes interview the messages were still marked as sent but not delivered unless Alan screenshot it and saved it. Let's not discount however that Kam very likely did have a mobile provider and they deleted their profiles from his phone. Alternatively they could have gone to like a McDonald's for free Wi-Fi. Funny, remember what Tommy Ste-Croix stated Bryer said when he pulled them out; "Yea we must have missed McDonald's." Or something to that effect.

Here's that video again with the cellphone screenshot if you don't have it saved.
Father holding out hope after two Port Alberni teens vanish in northern B.C.

 

[Jan424]

I don't think I've seen this pic of Bryer before. Looks like computer tower in background and maybe Kam in plaid shirt on computer? Hhhmm is Bryer drinking beer? Looks like a pop can in background and gaming headphones too.

View attachment 200183

Yes that appears to be Kam in the background... I was wondering if Bryer was drinking hard liquor but I can’t tell for sure.

 

[Jan424]

Duplicate post
DBM

 

[Tilly23]

On the question of did they or didn't they have a plan that included murder, I find myself thinking about their demeanour in the video from the Meadow Lake Co-op.

They are reasonably well-groomed and clean. They don't have any obvious physical signs of having been involved in a physical altercation - I don't see bruises or scratches. I also don't see obvious signs of serious fatigue or dishevelment such as might occur if you were up all night for a few nights in a row - perhaps you were driving, perhaps you were having trouble sleeping because your adrenaline was running high? Maybe we think we can see some anxiety in KM's expression, but is that because we think it should be there? To me, they seem pretty "calm, cool and collected".

If murder was not part of the plan, and was seriously unexpected, wouldn't you think there would be a lot of freaking out?

The Meadow Lake video was taken on July 21. The burning camper/truck as well as LD's body were found on July 19. Google maps says it's a 24 hour drive from Dease Lake to Meadow Lake. Seems to me that it would take a fair amount of focus to get on the road in the car you just stole and drive that far, if you were really freaked out by what happened.

Definitely MOO.

 

[FactFinder3000]

I think due to the news coverage of the case and the people all over the country who were affected, they will have to release information on motive, background, and all that just for closure. They did in the Danforth Ave shooting for exactly that reason and the affected people said that it was cathartic for them to know more information about why this happened. Also right after their bodies were found, the RCMP talked about how they were employing behavioral specialists to try to find the motive. I doubt they would mention that to the public if they weren't planning to release those findings.

I think we will know: motive, whether it was premeditated or not, warning signs and events leading up to the murders if there were any, possible diagnoses that could have contributed, where the guns came from, their best estimated route, forensics related to the murders, witness sightings, general details of the autopsy report, and general details of the goodbye message and any other messages they might have recorded (I'm hoping for a transcript but who knows).

Also I bet anything that isn't in the report, will all come out on some Fifth Estate documentary in a year or two anyway.

We shall see, I guess. I was thinking things like their specific route and every witness sighting would not come out. Just the facts that prove they're guilty with some general background.

I just had a look at that Danforth shootings report (here) and I have to say that something like that would be wonderful in this case. I will note though that it was produced by the Toronto Police, and not the RCMP. Also, that was a mass shooting, and this isn't. And a lot of the info in that case was leaked beforehand, anyway.

But we're not far apart on this. I expect a little less than you do. We shall see.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I believe butterflies are symbolic of resurrection, transformation or transition from an old life to a new life. I’ve no idea if they knew this or even if Bryer changed his IG photo while on the road, but it would explain all those pink butterflies. JMO

The weird thing is that it's pretty much the least murdery picture you could imagine. You would think if they were trying to send a final message, it would be a picture of them looking intimidating, along the lines of the pictures Bryer sent to his friends on Steam. Generally whenever you think back on the last communications of teenage spree killers, in all cases it's something like that.

Instead it's a picture of them both looking really happy (I think that's the happiest Bryer has looked in any of the pictures of him as a teenager out there), smiling, with their arms around each other, just looking like two lifelong best friends chilling. Plus the addition of butterflies, which could have been a joke, or not. Maybe it was a symbol of transformation, or love for each other, or whatever...or maybe even trolling. But honestly, given that these guys seemed to be "Trailer Park Boys" levels of dumb, I think that level of symbolic nuance may have been beyond them.

Either way, if it was posted after the murders, that would be probably the most bizarre last message I've ever heard of. I've never heard of anything like that happening before.

 

[NJSleuth91]

We shall see, I guess. I was thinking things like their specific route and every witness sighting would not come out. Just the facts that prove they're guilty with some general background.

I just had a look at that Danforth shootings report and I have to say that something like that would be wonderful in this case. I will note though that it was produced by the Toronto Police, and not the RCMP. Also, that was a mass shooting, and this isn't. And a lot of the info was leaked beforehand, anyway.

But we're not far apart on this. I expect a little less than you do. We shall see.

The public will not be happy if they don't give a bunch of details. A lot of people are still convinced these two are innocent, at least of the first two murders.

As I said though, the Fifth Estate will likely come out with it all in the end. JMO.

 

[Optics]

Did the remoteness factor into their travel route? If this was all pre-planned that is the way to go.

I feel that is exactly why they went there for the 'remoteness factor' - common sense to them would say it takes a lot longer for police to get to a scene, and easier to escape a crime without question IMHO

 

[NJSleuth91]

On the question of did they or didn't they have a plan that included murder, I find myself thinking about their demeanour in the video from the Meadow Lake Co-op.

They are reasonably well-groomed and clean. They don't have any obvious physical signs of having been involved in a physical altercation - I don't see bruises or scratches. I also don't see obvious signs of serious fatigue or dishevelment such as might occur if you were up all night for a few nights in a row - perhaps you were driving, perhaps you were having trouble sleeping because your adrenaline was running high? Maybe we think we can see some anxiety in KM's expression, but is that because we think it should be there? To me, they seem pretty "calm, cool and collected".

If murder was not part of the plan, and was seriously unexpected, wouldn't you think there would be a lot of freaking out?

The Meadow Lake video was taken on July 21. The burning camper/truck as well as LD's body were found on July 19. Google maps says it's a 24 hour drive from Dease Lake to Meadow Lake. Seems to me that it would take a fair amount of focus to get on the road in the car you just stole and drive that far, if you were really freaked out by what happened.

Definitely MOO.

To me they both look like they're internally freaking out and Kam definitely looks pretty upset about something. But they also don't want to arouse suspicion, so they're keeping it to themselves. They also definitely both look tired to me. Also keep in mind the first murders were on July 14th/15th. They had already had a week to get used to the idea of "well, I guess we're murderers now."

I also have sort of a theory that, because Bryer was the more openly suicidal of the two, it's possible he had already accepted death at that point, and that's why he doesn't look as upset as Kam. A lot of times when people make the decision to commit suicide after thinking about it for a long time, they become content and even happy. It's possible that he had already decided to commit suicide, having created a situation where none of his options for remaining on Earth were good, and he was basically just staying alive to keep Kam company until Kam came to the same decision.

 

[FactFinder3000]

The public will not be happy if they don't give a bunch of details. A lot of people are still convinced these two are innocent, at least of the first two murders.

As I said though, the Fifth Estate will likely come out with it all in the end. JMO.

Yes, the whole point of releasing this information will be to end public speculation. But really, if they tell us Kam bought the guns and the ballistics match and they were seen in the areas of the murders, what more do we need?

And I have a feeling their might be more than that.

You can never fully prove anything. <modsnip>

 

[Optics]

That's a very good point, I can't remember when they exactly deleted their profiles either but I have a suspicion it was the RCMP. I do recall in the first days of August there being a fake account for Kam with his profile photo being a still from the Co-Op surveillance footage. It also said his current city was "Winnipeg." But that has since been deleted as well. The other interesting thing I noticed, those messages from Alan to Bryer were never actually received by Bryer. Notice the circles next to the messages are checked but they're not filled in. That means the messages were in the process of being sent but never marked as "read" or "received." In fact as of that 60 Minutes interview the messages were still marked as sent but not delivered unless Alan screenshot it and saved it. Let's not discount however that Kam very likely did have a mobile provider and they deleted their profiles from his phone. Alternatively they could have gone to like a McDonald's for free Wi-Fi. Funny, remember what Tommy Ste-Croix stated Bryer said when he pulled them out; "Yea we must have missed McDonald's." Or something to that effect.

Here's that video again with the cellphone screenshot if you don't have it saved.
Father holding out hope after two Port Alberni teens vanish in northern B.C.

Yeah I think especially in the case of Kam McLeod his family got all his accounts closed down as quick as possible.

 

[SovereignSnake]

On the question of did they or didn't they have a plan that included murder, I find myself thinking about their demeanour in the video from the Meadow Lake Co-op.

They are reasonably well-groomed and clean. They don't have any obvious physical signs of having been involved in a physical altercation - I don't see bruises or scratches. I also don't see obvious signs of serious fatigue or dishevelment such as might occur if you were up all night for a few nights in a row - perhaps you were driving, perhaps you were having trouble sleeping because your adrenaline was running high? Maybe we think we can see some anxiety in KM's expression, but is that because we think it should be there? To me, they seem pretty "calm, cool and collected".

If murder was not part of the plan, and was seriously unexpected, wouldn't you think there would be a lot of freaking out?

The Meadow Lake video was taken on July 21. The burning camper/truck as well as LD's body were found on July 19. Google maps says it's a 24 hour drive from Dease Lake to Meadow Lake. Seems to me that it would take a fair amount of focus to get on the road in the car you just stole and drive that far, if you were really freaked out by what happened.

Definitely MOO.

Personally I thought Kam looked exhausted and passive in the Meadow Lake footage. Bryer looked somewhere between deer in the headlights and excitable. Keep in mind they were 18 and 19 and won't necessarily tire out or look as haggard as say a 30 or 40 something year old person would after days of no sleep and dozens of hours on the road. I would also suspect perhaps two days after whatever happened with Leonard (I do still wonder if they hit him with the Dodge pickup) most of that adrenaline was long gone.

 

[sprucetip]

I think due to the news coverage of the case and the people all over the country who were affected, they will have to release information on motive, background, and all that just for closure. They did in the Danforth Ave shooting for exactly that reason and the affected people said that it was cathartic for them to know more information about why this happened. Also right after their bodies were found, the RCMP talked about how they were employing behavioral specialists to try to find the motive. I doubt they would mention that to the public if they weren't planning to release those findings.

I think we will know: motive, whether it was premeditated or not, warning signs and events leading up to the murders if there were any, possible diagnoses that could have contributed, where the guns came from, their best estimated route, forensics related to the murders, witness sightings, general details of the autopsy report, and general details of the goodbye message and any other messages they might have recorded (I'm hoping for a transcript but who knows).

Also I bet anything that isn't in the report, will all come out on some Fifth Estate documentary in a year or two anyway.

Yes good point. It'll be the journalists putting in access to info requests down the road and getting more info if it isn't provided.

 

[Bluedaisy100]

Yeah I think especially in the case of Kam McLeod his family got all his accounts closed down as quick as possible.

Kam's family from their earliest response seemed professionally handled. I'm guessing they immediately got legal advice on the best way to respond. They put out an attractive photo, described his charming character and their disbelief that he could be involved. A lawyer was probably looking into character references. In no way did they expect this. I've read posts here referring to Kam taking the camper without their knowledge. Am I remembering this right?

 

[NJSleuth91]

Kam's family from their earliest response seemed professionally handled. I'm guessing they immediately got legal advice on the best way to respond. They put out an attractive photo, described his charming character and their disbelief that he could be involved. A lawyer was probably looking into character references. In no way did they expect this. I've read posts here referring to Kam taking the camper without their knowledge. Am I remembering this right?

People on here speculated that maybe Kam took the camper without their knowledge. However, there is no evidence that this is the case. Since Bryer's grandma and great-uncle knew they were going on the trip on the 11th, and Bryer's great-uncle said they had a good amount of cash when they left, chances are Kam's family knew about the trip and gave them the truck/camper and probably the money also.

Agreed that they likely got a lawyer immediately. I can't blame them considering how the media and public can be.

 

[Shlock Homes]

The timeline would be very tight if they left Port Alberni on July 12, drove all the way to Whitehorse only to discover a lack of jobs, then immediately turned back and were in the Laird Hot Springs area by the night of July 14th. The shortest route requires at least 40 hours of driving time.

There is that, and then there's the fact they hung around the area for about 4 days before murdering Leonard Dyck. None of it makes any sense. It's easier just to assume they were in Whitehorse for a number of days, then made their way down to Dease Lake. Maybe they had stops along the way, but not in Laird Springs by July 14th or so when LF and CD were murdered.

Maybe.....but maybe not.
At this point we know so very little that it is still possible that they made it to Whitehorse and left. It is still possible that they didn't. It is still possible that they did not kill Lucas and Chynna. It is still possible that they did. NONE of us know either way on any of these things, however it seems there are many here who have already made up their minds about it all even without knowing for sure what did or did not happen.
That is all I am saying. Same thing I have been saying all along. Wait for the facts. There is no use dominating the threads with the same things over and over again.

I've been saying this since the beginning. I didn't jump on the 'they're guilty of all the murders' bandwagon because they didn't give any reason for us to believe they could have done it. Strangely, they also charged them with second degree murder, before they were even caught. All I've read is that there was some sort of tip that was given to the RCMP that connected BS and KM to the murder of LF and CD. But the police won't say what that was. They won't even say what kind of weapon or size of bullets were used in that case, or how Leonard Dyck was killed. Too many questions are coming out from their vagueness, yet they're so quick to publish all kinds of background information on the suspects to get the public to believe that they were capable of this type of crime, and too eager to wrap this up really nicely with a tight bow.

I think they didn't want the murder to go unnoticed. I think they definitely wanted their names out there and notoriety hence the burning up of vehicles. Dare I say, maybe that's why they chose a young, attractive couple as they knew the media would jump on that and be all over that (which they shallowly and sadly do).

That's where there is inconsistency in the narrative to explain their behaviour. On the one hand, they want to say these two were doing it as a thrill kill, wanted the bodies to be found, etc... but then they go completely social media silent. There are plenty of places along their route that could have had free wifi, even if their internet access was spotty.
As for them choosing LF and CD, why would they just drive down a random road, and then expect to find a young couple? They would have had to head south from where they were. So they decide to murder these two, then head north again? Why not just keep heading south, then keep going east? Their movements don't add up.

 

[Shlock Homes]

Unless they weren't really coming up here for summer work and wanting a more long-term work solution. Local establishments are desperate for workers year-round but then that relegates them back to Walmart or restaurant jobs. There's also the high cost of living and almost impossible to find housing.

Nobody has talked about the possibility that they were hired to transport or pick up something? That could explain why their plan was so abrupt and leading them to quit their regular jobs and travel so far. Plus it would be a reason to torch the camper and truck, to get rid of evidence of carrying it, if that was what they were instructed to do. Just throwing ideas out there.

 

[Shlock Homes]

Definitely. Their "job search" was either a lie that they concocted or a case of entitlement. I work in an industry where a lot of young men feel that they're entitled to earn big paycheques (even though they have a bare minimum grade 12), but don't want to start at the bottom like everyone else. Heaven forbid they actually have to put in some time before they go rushing off to buy some 90k gas guzzling monster truck!!

Whatever job search may have been done, wouldn't police have found evidence of it by now? Did they ever go to BS and KM respective homes with warrants to search through their computers and personal items? We never heard about that. Nor have police ever talked about them using their cellphones during the course of their 'spree'. Surely their phones would have been pinging towers all along their route.

 

[Zella]

Couple of quick thoughts: I definitely agree the McLeods are savvier about media than Bryer's family. That is not a criticism of them. It was smart.

I've thought that from the beginning just based on the pics they gave RCMP. Friendly, smiling, unthreatening, clear pic of their kid versus the blurry paramilitary-looking image of Bryer.

Also I have lost count of the number of times I've watched that store footage of Kam and Bryer. I watch it a few times every night, actually, always trying to see if something new pops out to me.

And my opinions have gone back and forth on it. But I've always thought Kam looks eerily focused and determined while also very tense and cagey, like he's propelled by pure adrenaline and force of will at that point. Bryer seems fidgety and like a space cadet, but that look on his face when he's leaving the store. That's the most peaceful expression I've seen on his face in any picture or image of him.

I've thought for awhile that Bryer had decided on suicide long before Kam, and I think, minus his freakouts when he feared capture, he was kind of enjoying being along for the ride with his best friend, away from his troubled homelife, maybe engaged in what he considered one of his little militia adventures.

I think Kam looks more wired because he hadn't reached that point yet of accepting suicide as the only alternative to capture and still thought there was some way out. And I suspect that's why they lived a few days in the woods. Kam still hadn't reached that point yet. I think they killed themselves when Kam finally broke.

All MOO.