Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #20

[Lalalacasbah]

Either way, I do think there had to be some dark thoughts going through Kam's mind. He and Bryer from many sources were very close friends. It is known from what we seen on the media that Bryer was troubled, atleast going back to early teens, and for whatever reason nothing was done. His father wasn't present, and his mother sent or allowed him to go live with grandma.

I also wonder if Kam was just bored of being "normal". Middle-class kid (assuming) getting some sense of excitement through Bryer who might've been more the "taboo, bad boy with the crazy upbringing".

There's an element of excitement to surrounding yourself with dysfunctional rebel types (did so myself in my youth). I think Kam had some twisted thoughts too, maybe felt isolated, maybe some depression... but I have to wonder if his "issues" would've diffused had he had other friends and healthier outlets. Really hard to say on Kam. He is a mystery to me right now.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Question (I’m not sure if anyone can really answer, but):

When they were first declared missing, is it at all possible that the RCMP attempted to call them directly? Is this something they would do, or would they leave that up to family/friends?

When I first heard about the murders and that B&K were missing, I went and snooped Facebook for B&K posts. I was expecting to find (which I normally do when searching missing people) "missing posts" being shared frantically and friends/colleagues desperate to find their friends/loved ones and reaching out for ANY sign of them.

Well, I found zilch. No one was posting/sharing their missing poster! This made me think hhmmm these guys maybe weren't well liked as why isn't anyone concerned about finding them? I thought then, maybe they are suspects. I didn't dare post that or say it out loud, especially on this forum but that was definitely my thought.

Sorry not really to do with your post exactly, kinda jumped off your post! But I do wonder if friends/family suspected they were in trouble when first declared missing as opposed to being victims themselves.

 

[Grouper]

When I first heard about the murders and that B&K were missing, I went and snooped Facebook for B&K posts. I was expecting to find (which I normally do when searching missing people) "missing posts" being shared frantically and friends/colleagues desperate to find their friends/loved ones and reaching out for ANY sign of them.

Well, I found zilch, no one posting their missing poster! This made me think hhmmm these guys maybe weren't well liked as why isn't anyone concerned about finding them! I thought maybe they are suspects. I didn't dare post that or say it out loud, especially on this forum but that was definitely my thought.

Sorry not really to do with your post exactly, kinda jumped off your post! But I do wonder if friends/family suspected they were in trouble when first declared missing as opposed to being victims themselves.

I wouldn’t look too far into that, honestly. They went from missing persons to suspects in hardly two days. Not really enough time for people to spread “missing posters” online.

Plus, it was in the news. It was already spread across the country, on every screen.

Anyway, that’s not really an implication to me. I myself did not think twice about them being suspects at that time.

 

[Runningforthewind]

Another thing I forgot to add to my original post.

Another factor that doesn’t make sense is after they took off with Mr. Dyck’s vehicle, why didn’t they hurt another person? They are apparently these dangerous men, but there is no report of any other murders. Every witness that they interacted with them before they were named suspects described them as being docile, anxious and nervous. For men who often stuff their true feelings, this is the perfect description of someone who is terrified.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I wouldn’t look too far into that, honestly. They went from missing persons to suspects in hardly two days. Not really enough time for people to spread “missing posters” online.

Plus, it was in the news. It was already spread across the country, on every screen.

Anyway, that’s not really an implication to me. I myself did not think twice about them being suspects at that time.

Yes true, the turnaround was fast from missing to suspect. Usually if someone is genuinely "missing" I find desperate pleas and posts on FB in the past sleuthing I've done.

The fact that I didn't find anything was odd to me since sometimes there's way more detailed info on social media in comments (where they were last seen, what they were wearing, who they talked to last, etc.) from friends/family than what press conferences from LE tell us usually. Sometimes the friends/family desperation sets things rolling before LE can censor them!

 

[Zella]

(where they were last seen, what they were wearing, who they talked to last, etc.)

SBM

I suspect some of that might be since they didn't disappear from their hometown. Since they had been on a roadtrip for several days, their families wouldn't have been able to provide any more detail on their last known whereabouts or what they were last seen doing/wearing because any information they had was from July 12th or earlier and they were last spotted hundreds of miles from anyone who really knew them on July 18th, as of when they were declared missing on the 21st.

Bryer's dad and grandma did share what they had last heard they were doing, though of course that quickly seemed bizarre since they were told 2 different things.

MOO

 

[Lalalacasbah]

SBM

I suspect some of that might be since they didn't disappear from their hometown. Since they had been on a roadtrip for several days, their families wouldn't have been able to provide any more detail on their last known whereabouts or what they were last seen doing/wearing because any information they had was from July 12th or earlier and they were last spotted hundreds of miles from anyone who really knew them on July 18th, as of when they were declared missing on the 21st.

Bryer's dad and grandma did share what they had last heard they were doing, though of course that quickly seemed bizarre since they were told 2 different things.

MOO

Yes! Sorry my comment in brackets was more a hypothetical example on other missing posts I've seen about other people! Usually they provide more detailed comments/info than MSM or LE provide so I just pulled that outta the air lol...

For B&K I was expecting to find maybe a couple other locals or youths would post on their behalf. Like - "hey, my old classmates are missing and people were just murdered, help me find them please!" or "my ex-coworker (Walmart) is missing out in the bush, anyone who lives out there keep your eyes open for these two and bring them home" or "omg, my cousin and his friend can't be found and they're on a roadtrip, spread the word and help find them!"

You know... the typical pleas that people put out there when someone goes missing!

 

[Zella]

Yes! Sorry my comment in brackets was more a hypothetical example on other missing posts I've seen about other people! Usually they provide more detailed comments/info than MSM or LE provide so I just pulled that outta the air lol...

For B&K I was expecting to find maybe a couple other locals or youths would post on their behalf. Like - "hey, my old classmates are missing and people were just murdered, help me find them please!" or "my ex-coworker (Walmart) is missing out in the bush, anyone who lives out there keep your eyes open for these two and bring them home" or "omg, my cousin and his friend can't be found and they're on a roadtrip, spread the word and help find them!"

You know... the typical pleas that people put out there when someone goes missing!

Oh yes I see what you mean! LOL I got a little weirdly literal there.

I never looked at their social media when they were missing, so I don't really have any firsthand knowledge of that. But I do wonder if some of it is due to privacy settings? So, maybe folks were posting, but it just wasn't visible to people outside their group of friends/friends of friends. Also I think fewer people their age are on Facebook and from what I can tell neither were very active on Facebook, at least visibly for some time, so that maybe that's another factor too? I'm not sure. MOO

The general impression I've gotten from reading what people who have known them have said since they were declared suspects is general shock for Kam and a mixture of shock and "well, not surprised" for Bryer, depending on their relationship to him/experiences with him.

 

[SovereignSnake]

I still think something happened at Mr. Dyck's murder scene, that made them run away. I've been researching and looking at every article and I just don't believe they are responsible.

I do too. I would really like to know where they were between the 15th-18th (when they were finally spotted in Jade City, then later that same Thursday afternoon at the Super A in Dease Lake.) So where were they the Monday Lucas and Chynna were found until that Thursday? There's been no other reported sightings. The timeline had them traveling from Liard River to Dease Lake but that trip would not have taken them four days. They had to have been camped somewhere in between or maybe somewhere else entirely? Then there were reports that they were camped just outside Dease Lake (but not the spot where the Dodge and Camper were found burning, it was a "third spot" the RCMP investigated. But then no one knows for how long. I also don't recall if anything was even found there in terms of evidence or if it was even confirmed to be Kam and Bryer or just local gossip.) Then I also pictured a scenario of Kam and Bryer happening upon Lucas and Chynna in the middle of the night already murdered? (Reaching, I know.) Still, I keep wondering, if they did kill them why not burn their van? Did they go through it? Maybe even attempt to start it? I would think they would be paranoid they left some kind of DNA evidence there as well and decided it needed to be burned. Yet they did nothing with it. Perhaps they didn't even touch the van and they just wanted to get out of there. They must have wanted something from Lucas and Chynna. I just can't picture Kam or Bryer approaching that van on a deserted highway in the darkness. I said the other night; "Who approaches an old broken down van on the side of the road at night, unaware of who, what or how many may be inside?" It sounds spooky just typing that. Yet the burnings didn't start until their encounter with Leonard and finally in Sundance. I had asked earlier if burning vehicles was one of their modus operandi but we can't be certain. Other than a blasted out back window the van appeared to be completely untouched. I guess thinking about it a bit more, maybe they only burned the Dodge, the Camper and the RAV because they had spent so much time in them, leaving traces of themselves on everything, literally living in them. Some really high strangeness must have went down with Leonard because why not burn everything immediately after Lucas and Chynna? (If it was indeed Kam and Bryer.) Why wait four whole days before fleeing across half of Canada in what seemed like record breaking time?

 

[Grouper]

I do too. I would really like to know where they were between the 15th-18th (when they were finally spotted in Jade City, then later that afternoon at the Super A in Dease Lake.) So where were they the Monday Lucas and Chynna were found until that Thursday? There's been no other reported sightings. The timeline had them traveling from Liard River to Dease Lake but that trip would not have taken them four days. They had to have been camped somewhere in between or maybe somewhere else entirely? Then there were reports that they were camped just outside Dease Lake (but not the spot where the Dodge and Camper were found burning, it was a "third spot" the RCMP investigated. But then no one knows for how long. I also don't recall if anything was even found there in terms of evidence or if it was even confirmed to be Kam and Bryer or just local gossip.) Then I also pictured a scenario of Kam and Bryer happening upon Lucas and Chynna in the middle of the night already murdered? (Reaching, I know.) Still, I keep wondering, if they did kill them why not burn their van? Did they go through it? Maybe even attempt to start it? I would think they would be paranoid they left some kind of DNA evidence there as well and decided it needed to be burned. Yet they did nothing with it. Perhaps they didn't even touch the van and they just wanted to get out of there. They must have wanted something from Lucas and Chynna. I just can't picture Kam or Bryer approaching that van on a deserted highway in the darkness. I said the other night; "Who approaches an old broken down van on the side of the road at night, unaware of who, what or how many may be inside?" It sounds spooky just typing that. Yet the burnings didn't start until their encounter with Leonard and finally in Sundance. I had asked earlier if burning vehicles was one of their modus operandi but we can't be certain. Other than a blasted out back window the van appeared to be completely untouched. I guess thinking about it a bit more, maybe they only burned the Dodge, the Camper and the RAV because they had spent so much time in them, leaving traces of themselves on everything, literally living in them. Some really high strangeness must have went down with Leonard because why not burn everything immediately after Lucas and Chynna? (If it was indeed Kam and Bryer.) Why wait four whole days before fleeing across half of Canada in what seemed like record breaking time?

The speed with which they moved across three provinces still blows my mind. And if it was just one person driving... that is immense dedication.

Another question: why are people saying the van window was smashed from inside? What evidence is there of this?

I recall seeing the photo of the broken window, but I couldn’t tell from which way it had been broken.

 

[Grouper]

Very good question. I'd think they would try if family wasn't having much luck.

The reason I asked was, if we are following the theory that they witnessed something awful and decided to flee — such as, another murder in progress — and then received a phone call from police, or even someone they know suggesting they were labeled by police as missing... would it freak them out more? Perhaps spurring them away further into hiding?

Any phone calls they received would have come after they’d taken Leonard’s car and were on the way through Alberta and into Manitoba, though. So I don’t know if that holds.

It seems believable to me that they did go into hiding between the murders of Lucas and Chynna, and the murder of Leonard.

I’m still a bit thrown off by the timeline, tbh. Probably because it all happened so, so fast, it’s hard for my brain to contain all the events in such a small window of time.

 

[Esprite]

I don't think the question about Kam and Bryer being lovers is shocking ... the thought has crossed my mind as well, only because it would help some pieces fit just a little better I guess. But, otherwise, it really is irrelevant in the big scheme of this entire tragedy. Their close bond was actually impressive to me, its just a sad shame the foundation of that bond was warped and toxic.
Also, a suicide pact makes alot of sense .... I believe they both accepted (early on) that this was a very real possible outcome for them. All MOO

Yes, I agree that it's irrelevant to the tragic outcome, and certainly not an issue for me, but was probably very important to them at the time. Just knowing that they were stuck in their family homes, and probably could never be together in small town PA, may have been part of the reason that they set out on the road together. Whatever their twisted motive, Kam seemed to act as Bryer's chauffeur throughout, while simply accepting his overall weirdness and penchant for creepy public displays back in PA.

<modsnip: off limits>

 

[srper2]

When I first heard about the murders and that B&K were missing, I went and snooped Facebook for B&K posts. I was expecting to find (which I normally do when searching missing people) "missing posts" being shared frantically and friends/colleagues desperate to find their friends/loved ones and reaching out for ANY sign of them.

Well, I found zilch. No one was posting/sharing their missing poster! This made me think hhmmm these guys maybe weren't well liked as why isn't anyone concerned about finding them? I thought then, maybe they are suspects. I didn't dare post that or say it out loud, especially on this forum but that was definitely my thought.

Sorry not really to do with your post exactly, kinda jumped off your post! But I do wonder if friends/family suspected they were in trouble when first declared missing as opposed to being victims themselves.

Earlier on I found numerous posts within the gaming community from people who all said Bryer was a really nice person and he would never do something like this. I even found a gaming video in which Bryer may be talking, in which he is telling somebody off for being rude. I didn't post here as not from a suitable source.

 

[srper2]

It would be interesting to know if they took their monitors as well. If this was pre-planned they could have taken their computers just to keep their hard drives away from police. An Adam Lanza type bid to be opaque and completely control the situation and narrative.

I think f they were just worried about their hard drives, they would have just taken the hard drives or destroyed them.

 

[srper2]

The speed with which they moved across three provinces still blows my mind. And if it was just one person driving... that is immense dedication.

Another question: why are people saying the van window was smashed from inside? What evidence is there of this?

I recall seeing the photo of the broken window, but I couldn’t tell from which way it had been broken.

As far as I have found, the only reason people are assuming it was smashed from the inside is because the person who had to stay with the van until the police arrived said it looked like it had been smashed from the inside, making his own assumption. I believe it could have been smashed from the outside as glass usually falls to the outside and inside whichever way it is smashed. There is a link to the interview with the person way back in the threads!

 

[JudgeJudi]

That was Trevor Pierre, the roadside worker / paramedic. "The vehicle’s two passenger-side side doors were open, he said, and the van’s back window had been smashed outward, with glass strewn outside the vehicle."

‘Still troubled by it’: Witness recounts securing the scene of northern B.C. double murder

 

[srper2]

That was Trevor Pierre, the roadside worker / paramedic. "The vehicle’s two passenger-side side doors were open, he said, and the van’s back window had been smashed outward, with glass strewn outside the vehicle."

‘Still troubled by it’: Witness recounts securing the scene of northern B.C. double murder

He said that the window had been smashed from the inside, but that was his own assumption. If you look at testing of windows being smashed by gunfire and other methods, glass always falls to the outside as well, not just if smashed from the inside. I believe the window was shot out from the outside when the van was first approached, by somebody who already knew LF and CD were there alone. The bullet must have hit something inside the van or embedded in something inside the van and there did not appear to be any damage or bullet holes in the van.

 

[Jan424]

I don’t think anyone of us knows what it’s like to kill anyone (um, I hope not anyway...)

So who are we to comment on that experience? It’s not any kind of stretch for me to imagine there would be a whole spectrum of emotions at play in that moment.

It’s a limit breaking experience that I doubt any of us will ever approach, or ever have (sweeping generalizations here, my apologies). So we cannot say what emotions could or could not arise. It’s divorced from any logic we can understand.

ETA: oops. @NJSleuth91 i didn’t see your above post and basically just paraphrased you! I guess this post can stand as a reinforcement of your own.

My earlier post in response to this showed up a## backwards (was very late) so I’ll try again. My point was simply that I wasn’t saying what emotions can and cannot be felt. All I said was that it sounded strange to me... that one part about fear and confusion (mostly confusion). I’m not commenting on any sort of experience, thankfully, just giving my opinion. In the meantime, @NJSleuth91 broke it down very well and I can see some sense in it after all.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I mean, it kind of does make sense if you think about it. Like imagine a typical botched robbery where the robbers are freaking out and kill someone in a panic. They could completely avoid their freakout and other negative consequences if they just didn't commit the robbery. In many cases they probably aren't enjoying the experience either. But they do it anyway. And once someone crosses that line of committing to doing it, it can be very hard to snap out of it and stop it, even if part of them wants to.

It's a bunch of conflicting emotions at play. And who has more simultaneously occurring conflicting emotions, than disturbed teenagers? Kam and Bryer likely had a ton of built-up negative emotions and little capacity to deal with them in a healthy way, and this whole thing was probably some sort of explosion of extreme angst.

I saw a comment on this case elsewhere, where someone said (paraphrased) "I work with young adult offenders in the criminal justice system. Most of them cannot clearly articulate the reasons why they did what they did, and seem just as confused as anyone else that they did it."

I've never seen those particular type of teen killers including those who want to become spree or mass murderers, and had started doing so.

Instead for the ones who didn't take the cowardly way out, and were convicted.. in their police interviews the common denominator seems they tend to have the same flat affect with no emotional responses nor remorse, and certainly shows no regret for anything they have done.

Even many years later when they agree to be interviewed again by anyone they are constantly each asked if they ever think of the victims they brutally murdered. Sadly, the most common answer given is No, not at all or very little.

Jmho

 

[Jan424]

It would be interesting to know if they took their monitors as well. If this was pre-planned they could have taken their computers just to keep their hard drives away from police.

SBM
Exactly what I thought.... possibly to keep them from police.