CANADA - Lucas Fowler & Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #6

[HopeForTheBest]

I’m just expressing a personal view on relevance, nothing to do with what’s allowed; and I’m the one who said that if people want to keep going down this particular rabbit hole the better question might be, why a 33 year old vehicle.

I know some people here in the rural US who swear by old vans because full-size, old vans often are fairly cheap unlike trucks because vans aren’t that “cool”; while they can’t haul things like a truck, you can sleep in them and carry lots of things without them getting wet, and older vehicles are said by many to be easier to work on and cheaper to fix than newer vehicles are. I have no idea if that van actually had a carburetor but if it did, letting it sit and maybe putting a pencil in the float if need be could work. Also, while they’re usually not four-wheel-drive, old, full-size vans generally are heavy enough to deal with a little snow if need be. And one more thought is that the thing about an old vehicle is that if it does blow the motor or something, since you didn’t pay that much for it, you cut your losses and look for another cheap old van. You don’t have to get an expensive car towed or fixed in a place where it might be very expensive. That said, if I had the money, I’d rather be in a newer vehicle and I’d far rather my kids be in newer vehicles. Traveling around the country in an old van can be seen as kind of a romantic thing and when you’re young, well, like a cheap RV maybe? MOO.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

From the NYT

Manhunt for Murder Suspects in Remote Canada Yields Only Fear and Frustration

Well-written story. According to his NY Times bio, the journalist is a Canadian who lives in Ottawa and has been covering Canada for the NY Times for a decade.

I have a subscription to the NY Times. This story is on page 1 of the on-line edition. It’s been up for two hours. I believe that non-subscribers to the NYT can still access a limited number of stories per month, so most people should be able to read this.

Interesting that the writer has chosen to make no mention of Mr. Schmegelsky’s “book”. Looks like the NY Times has yet to become the Daily Mail

 

[huntergerrard]

If it were a flooded engine and not an overheated one as I thought, then they must have stopped on the side of the hwy. and THEN
tried to re-start it and that's when it flooded.
So apparently they had stopped there for some reason. ???

As others have said, there are many reasons to stop there.
It could've been that they saw that road crew working in the area and felt safe stopping with them nearby.
I don't know how close they stopped to that store/gas station they used, but the couple already knew the store was back since they'd been there, however they likely had no idea what was up ahead.
Or, the van completely quit and they had no choice but to steer off the road where they were.
Unless the van completely quit, my guess is they felt safe pulling over because of the road crew and other cars passing by, the area wasn't completely deserted.

 

[10ofRods]

And buy some polar bear spray once you cross the border because only with great difficulty can you bring a gun across the border or anything more than a small, folding, pocket knife.

I'm going shopping in Old Quebec in four weeks. I hope these young men and the polar bear don't head in that direction.

Love your user name. I think you'll be ready if the young men cross your path. Not sure about the polar bear though!

Plus, burning the truck probably just delays figuring out who the owner is, not a solid plan for keeping undercover. Why not drive it deep into the bush and leave it? No fire, nothing brings attention, etc.

Because there's a bit of Beavis and Butthead in these two? Fire has this certain appeal to some teens. 90% of deliberately set fires are by males, as well, IIRC. I think it's a sign that they were putting their impulses (and, perhaps, fantasies) ahead of common sense at that point, although perhaps they thought were destroying DNA or something.

I don't think burning the van/truck/suv destroyed plates but maybe they thought it could (if so, really not well-versed in real world use of materials, but they are quite young).

 

[Kubirai]

or was it positioning of the bodies ...

RCMP will not prepare charges based on how the bodies were staged. We can be certain they used ballistic match and DNA.

 

[Gardenista]

Re: Winnipeg. I was hoping it was something

Aarti Pole
@aartipole
Winnipeg Police responded to reports about an apparent arrest between St. Anne's and St. Mary's in Winnipeg - Police tell @CBCNews they were responding to a call which turned out to be 'unfounded. Manhunt for 2 BC suspect continues.

Aarti Pole on Twitter

 

[HopeForTheBest]

Purple gas is just regular gas dyed purple, only for use by gas-powered farm vehicles. Some farms still have their own gas tanks, often locked, but maybe not where people leave keys in vehicles.

So, I'm assuming this was a gas-powered engine. It would be strange if they bought $20 of gas in a jerry can for a diesel engine, right?

I'd be afraid to look in a freezer in an unlocked barn or garage right now anywhere along their route.

I didn’t realize the different fuel types in the vehicles. Thanks! I meant the freezers might have food that could be taken but I see what you mean! Thanks!

 

[10ofRods]

Respectfully, this debate over the van and its registration has gone on for 6 threads now, with the same statements being recycled, over and over again. The main things we need to know about the victims are that they were perfectly innocent, and in no way contributed to their own deaths. Being disabled by the side of a highway is not an invitation to be murdered, regardless of where, or even if the van was registered.

Yes, there's a lot that's been "recycled" and mulled over in this lull in events. Practically every aspect of what's known has already been mentioned.

Who in their right mind would be interested in trying to blame the victims? I pretty much resent the notion that those of us who are interested in the wilderness preparedness issue (which, btw, several have said is a useful topic) are being splashed with that paint. It's regrettable.

I work with LE frequently. There are reasons why registration plates need to be updated when a person moves. It is indeed a safety thing (and a LE thing, of course as well). Some people wouldn't think about remoteness of medical care on the highway to Alaska; others wouldn't think much about making sure their registration is up to date. R. Provencher and his friend would not be known to be missing if their car registration wasn't up to date, etc.

I think it would be great to have a compilation of advice for traveling in, say, Manitoba - but that's not going to happen. People are going to continue to join threads and ask about the known chain of events (and repeat things MSM has implied or said that aren't quite accurate). I'm here to check my facts. All of them, if possible.

If WS has no mission to analyze cases with a view to preventative measures or caution or better systems, I am surprised.

 

[puppyraiser]

From a Global News Video Journalist:

Marek Tkach
@MarekTkach
·
3h
Manitoba RCMP have confirmed they WILL be releasing an update on Gillam search efforts this afternoon, they say the update will not include any “significant developments” #bcmurders

 

[scrappinkat]

RCMP will not prepare charges based on how the bodies were staged. We can be certain they used ballistic match and DNA.

DNA maybe, info gleaned from public/witnesses calling the tip line definitely but not ballistics as there’s no mention that LD died as a result of being shot.

 

[otto]

Well, it does have to do with how long it took to identify them, which is a part of their story and a part of this crime story. The victims themselves are part of the story. Their families had to wait, as I understand it, for identification (accomplished eventually when Chynne's well hidden passport was unearthed in the van, despite the fire). The plates did not lead to their identification.

And I do ask questions, myself, as to why people do what they do in general (take a 33 year old van on that journey). I ask those questions all the time. If that's not allowed here, I will stop, but I would hope that would come from a mod. I am interested in human nature, adventurousness, risk taking and so on. I think it's a valid interest and is connected to the story here.

That's my interest as well. This might have played out very differently if the victims had been identified on the morning of July 15. It would have been in the news on July 15, and the botanist might have made different choices on July 19.

There was a 3 day delay in identification of the suspects because ID was missing and vehicle did not track to Fowler's address. During those 3 days, the suspects were a danger to everyone. As soon as the double murder victims were identified the murders hit the news. Within 24 hours the suspects ditched their vehicle, murdered a botanist and stole his Rav4.

 

[MassGuy]

From a Global News Video Journalist:

Marek Tkach
@MarekTkach
·
3h
Manitoba RCMP have confirmed they WILL be releasing an update on Gillam search efforts this afternoon, they say the update will not include any “significant developments” #bcmurders

Damn. Onward...

 

[10ofRods]

RCMP will not prepare charges based on how the bodies were staged. We can be certain they used ballistic match and DNA.

Do you think that DNA has been collected from hair brushes, etc. back at their houses? Has there been a mention of that. Maybe that's what they're waiting for (to file charges). I would be very curious to know what, in the van or on the bodies, they could match to that. Perhaps B&K left something else behind. Perhaps there is DNA on bullet casings. Probably have to wait until trial to know that, and if no trial, we may not know at all. I'd think the ballistic match would be plenty to go on, for now.

 

[Thinkzerz]

From a Global News Video Journalist:

Marek Tkach
@MarekTkach
·
3h
Manitoba RCMP have confirmed they WILL be releasing an update on Gillam search efforts this afternoon, they say the update will not include any “significant developments” #bcmurders

Sounds like they do have “significant developments” just not willing to share at this time...IMO

 

[HopeForTheBest]

It very possibly was just a matter of not having, or wanting to spend, the money it would have cost to have the van towed to a town 4 hours away, and then having to stay somewhere in that town for a night or more while a repair, one that LF thought he could do himself, was done. They were only the second day into what was going to be a rather long driving adventure, and even if they had the money, they probably had not budgeted an expensive tow and repair into their plans. JMO

And they had what seemed to matter most to them right then: the company of each other in a gorgeous area. MOO. I’d have waited, too, if I thought it was a flooded carb. Or even if I didn’t if I wasn’t on my way somewhere specific because in my experience, sometimes if you let an old car sit, you can get it started later. It’s so sad! MOO.

 

[otto]

Respectfully, the only known is that the vehicle had Alberta tags.

It's been reported that Lucas owned the van, thus the Ownership Certificate contained his name and his address. No evidence the ownership certificate has a false address.

Pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Act of BC, exemptions exist for the Owner to to drive vehicle without changing plates and/or registering the vehicle. LF met the "touring" exemption.

There's no basis to claim LF illegally registered and insured the van in Alberta. No basis at all.

MOO

When a vehicle is sold, the licence plate remains with the seller. It is not legal to drive a vehicle in Canada without a licence plate.

 

[MassGuy]

That's my interest as well. This might have played out very differently if the victims had been identified on the morning of July 15. It would have been in the news on July 15, and the botanist might have made different choices on July 19.

There was a 3 day delay in identification of the suspects because ID was missing and vehicle did not track to Fowler's address. During those 3 days, the suspects were a danger to everyone. As soon as the double murder victims were identified the murders hit the news. Within 24 hours the suspects ditched their vehicle, murdered a botanist and stole his Rav4.

I don’t think the lack of identification is the major issue here, it’s that they didn’t release right away that two people had been shot to death.

I frequently defend law enforcement when they say “there is no danger to the public.”

That’s because most murders are personal.

The circumstances here didn’t lend themselves to a personal crime though.

I’m still not convinced it would have made any difference at all, but I do think it was an error.

 

[10ofRods]

That's my interest as well. This might have played out very differently if the victims had been identified on the morning of July 15. It would have been in the news on July 15, and the botanist might have made different choices on July 19.

There was a 3 day delay in identification of the suspects because ID was missing and vehicle did not track to Fowler's address. During those 3 days, the suspects were a danger to everyone. As soon as the double murder victims were identified the murders hit the news. Within 24 hours the suspects ditched their vehicle, murdered a botanist and stole his Rav4.

This is precisely my interest, as well. Police often get ridiculed for stopping unregistered cars here in the US (or harassed, or even attacked), but there are good reasons for wanting registration to be up to date. Without the identities, stories do not tend to hit the wider news cycle, that's for sure. In this case, Chynne and Lucas certainly had identification on their persons (most of it apparently stolen by the perps).

If hiking, people are increasingly encouraged to have a personal satellite beacon and many people are renting satellite phones. But we aren't often reminded that keeping our cars registered and our secondary ID safely stored in a vehicle are important. Those of us who have kids that go out in the middle of no where are interested in these details as well.

 

[huntergerrard]

And they had what seemed to matter most to them right then: the company of each other in a gorgeous area. MOO. I’d have waited, too, if I thought it was a flooded carb. Or even if I didn’t if I wasn’t on my way somewhere specific because in my experience, sometimes if you let an old car sit, you can get it started later. It’s so sad! MOO.

That's true. They probably had a nice view, so stopping wasn't all so bad. Plus, maybe they were tired from driving and wanting a break anyway. MOO.

 

[Satchie]

I guess by witness I meant someone who was driving by and noticed another vehicle stopped near the victim’s van, not necessarily someone who had any interaction with the perps. We do know that several people came forward who witnessed the victims by the side of the road and a couple who actually spoke to them. Another witness reported she had seen the male victim arguing with another male in the roadway at around 11:30 pm the night before the bodies were found. There may be more. We do not know at this time how LE connected the first homicides with that of LD. Perhaps a witness?

'Witness' also meaning CCTV footage and dashcam video. Requests for dashcam video had already gone out, before the deaths were even identified as homicide. The teens might have even made the leap to consider the possiblity of CCTV footage showing their truck in the vicinity that night.
RCMP seek witnesses, dashcam footage in Liard Hot Springs death investigation