Found Deceased Chile - Tom Marsh 60, Uk National, University Professor missing from a research trip, 16 September 2022

  • #201
This! Also JMO as someone with 15 years in language-related fields including legal translation though not for Spanish.
Translation is very nuanced work and Google Translate can't compete with a qualified human.

Might include gramatical errors (by me)
"He told me something super weird": student reveals details of argument with missing astronomer
T13 had access to the contents of the statement made by the British thesis student, in which he gave his version of the events that took place in the days prior to Thomas Marsh's disappearance.
The student who accompanied Thomas Richard Marsh, the British astronomer who disappeared in mid-September from La Silla Observatory, affirmed that he had a discussion with the researcher the day before he dissapeared.

T13 had access to the contents of the statement given by the British student, in which he said that he met Marsh in August 2021 at the University of Warwick, where he was a professor of physics.

Although he has already left the country, the testimony appears as transcendental in the framework of the investigation, since the subject appears as a key witness.

In his account he states that during May 2022, the academic invited him to Chile to visit the observatories and work with the NTT telescopes, to which he accepted and ended up traveling to the country on September 12.

After arriving in Chile, and according to his account, he arrived in La Serena on the 14th of the same month and after moving to the La Silla Observatory they carried out the first works.

However, in the statement, the young student notes that after spending September 15 with Thomas, during the night he told him "something super strange", pointing out that he was not happy with what he was doing and reproaching him for not seeing any interest in astronomy, physics or science on his part.

"On the 15th (of September) I was practically all day with Thomas, we had breakfast, lunch and dinner, we also worked on the NTT telescope (.... ) I remember that Thursday at about 7:00 PM after dinner we went to our bedrooms where Thomas told me something very strange to me, saying loudly: 'I'M NOT CONTENT WITH WHAT YOU DO, YOU HAVE NO INTEREST IN ASTRONOMY, PHYSICS OR SCIENCE, THAT PISSES ME OFF, IT WAS BY CHANCE, LET'S CONTINUE TOMORROW'. All this was said to me by Thomas crying, locking himself in his bedroom, and I was terribly surprised", says the student in his statement.

And he adds: "I was upset by what he told me, since what I study is something very important for me, it is my life, astronomy, physics and science is my passion, then I went to the canteen because in my room I do not have wifi in order to call a friend in my country and tell him what the professor told me, to let off some steam".

According to what is indicated in the document, the astronomer and the student did not see each other again, since he did not find him during the morning even though they had a meeting with a telescope operator.

According to what he said, he looked for him constantly in the vicinity of the site, but without success. He did meet with the telescope operator, who also said he did not know details about Thomas Marsh's whereabouts, only that he had received an e-mail stating that he needed to rest and sleep.

According to the statement, one of the people working at the site had received an e-mail from the astronomer that was "very confusing and strange". The same person reportedly spoke to Thomas' wife, who also reportedly received a "confusing" message.
Ignacio, are you a Chilean Spanish speaker? Websleuthers are wondering if the translation from the Spanish/Chilean newspapers matches what Mr Vega is stating. Sleuthers wonder if the translation done from Google is correct? If you can help us it would be much appreciated and thank you very much in advance.
 
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  • #202
This! Also JMO as someone with 15 years in language-related fields including legal translation though not for Spanish.
Translation is very nuanced work and Google Translate can't compete with a qualified human.
I see your point but at the same time some of what Google has translated would be correct if we put a percentage on that it would probably be on he higher end than the lower end. I would be concerned the translation was only say 10%
 
  • #203
I think we're having 2 separate discussions here, and I don't know if I can explain it any better, but I'll try.

I am not saying that the Google translation is inaccurate, or that either Sr Vega or Google was wrong in using "caracteristicas" / "characteristics." He said "caracteristicas," and that is translated, "characteristics" (or "area code," but that's clearly not what he was going for) in English.

I am saying that it does not make sense to dissect the use of an English word when it was not originally communicated in English. Not just in this example, but in anything that has been translated from 1 language to another.

So we cannot read anything into the choice of the word "characteristics" / "caracteristicas" over another word (like "attributes" or "designs" or what have you) because most of us here - are not deeply familiar with both Chilean Spanish and English.

I don't know if that's any clearer, and I know this is very off-topic, but it is good practice. If anyone else is able to further clarify what I'm trying to explain, feel free - my brain hurts.
 
  • #204
I think we're having 2 separate discussions here, and I don't know if I can explain it any better, but I'll try.

I am not saying that the Google translation is inaccurate, or that either Sr Vega or Google was wrong in using "caracteristicas" / "characteristics." He said "caracteristicas," and that is translated, "characteristics" (or "area code," but that's clearly not what he was going for) in English.

I am saying that it does not make sense to dissect the use of an English word when it was not originally communicated in English. Not just in this example, but in anything that has been translated from 1 language to another.

So we cannot read anything into the choice of the word "characteristics" / "caracteristicas" over another word (like "attributes" or "designs" or what have you) because most of us here - are not deeply familiar with both Chilean Spanish and English.

I don't know if that's any clearer, and I know this is very off-topic, but it is good practice. If anyone else is able to further clarify what I'm trying to explain, feel free - my brain hurts.
Agreed. But it is frustrating to not have a clearer understanding of the reporting in the Chilean media.

I wonder if the language barrier has also impacted the efforts to find Tom. What if the family & British police are struggling with a translation problem, too?

I would hope someone based at La Silla would have the skill to help with any language barrier.

It definitely has impacted this case IMO.
 
  • #205
DBM
 
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  • #206
Agreed. But it is frustrating to not have a clearer understanding of the reporting in the Chilean media.

I wonder if the language barrier has also impacted the efforts to find Tom. What if the family & British police are struggling with a translation problem, too?

I would hope someone based at La Silla would have the skill to help with any language barrier.

It definitely has impacted this case IMO.
BBM
Actually the police ought to be able to get a proper legal or certified translation done. I'm not based in the UK but generally courts, police and various official bodies like that will have lists of qualified translators to do this kind of work. Just found this for Leicestershire but surely similar all over England and Wales if not the whole of the UK: https://www.police.uk/pu/policing-i...t_3ul9fBdPaaasdKGlu4-1667405424-0-gaNycGzNCGU

Note that due to a shortage of interpreters (oral work), people without the proper qualifications may sometimes be called upon to do this work, but that doesn't happen for translators (written work). There are enough qualified translators around, undoubtedly even for Chilean Spanish.

Sorry, it's all gone a trifle off topic. otoh it seems to me that a little knowledge in the field of translation wouldn't go amiss on this thread. JMO
 
  • #207
I see your point but at the same time some of what Google has translated would be correct if we put a percentage on that it would probably be on he higher end than the lower end. I would be concerned the translation was only say 10%


Even if the translation is 95% correct but incorrect in an instance where it's really crucial that it's correct then that's a potential problem. MOO

Repeat of own post because forgot to insert quote
 
  • #208
BBM
Actually the police ought to be able to get a proper legal or certified translation done. I'm not based in the UK but generally courts, police and various official bodies like that will have lists of qualified translators to do this kind of work. Just found this for Leicestershire but surely similar all over England and Wales if not the whole of the UK: https://www.police.uk/pu/policing-in-the-uk/national-police-language-services-npls/what-we-do/police-approved-interpreters-and-translators-scheme-pait/? Fa__cf_chl_tk=onYqEpUyCemrOabcsfxGo59t_3ul9fBdPaaasdKGlu4-1667405424-0-gaNycGzNCGU

Note that due to a shortage of interpreters (oral work), people without the proper qualifications may sometimes be called upon to do this work, but that doesn't happen for translators (written work). There are enough qualified translators around, undoubtedly even for Chilean Spanish.

Sorry, it's all gone a trifle off topic. otoh it seems to me that a little knowledge in the field of translation wouldn't go amiss on this thread. JMO
I don't think it's off topic at all. It's probably an integral factor in bringing resolution/finding Tom.

What happened? Without good translation, we may always have an unclear picture of even a resolution.

JMHO
 
  • #209
I don't think it's off topic at all. It's probably an integral factor in bringing resolution/finding Tom.

What happened? Without good translation, we may always have an unclear picture of even a resolution.

JMHO
Sorry, I'm always excusing myself on here for going off-topic. As a translator myself I know how important good translation is and ought not be excusing myself.
 
  • #210
Is this article in Portugese? It may be a Portugese newspaper.

It's a Chilean article from the country he went missing in, hence it's in Spanish. They speak Spanish in Chile!
 
  • #211
Other evidence was found between 1 and 3.5 kilometers to the south-west of the observatory, which made it possible to project the site of interest and limit the tracking space.
Prosecutor Vega added that “the laboratories have confirmed that they belong to Mr. Marsh and, due to their characteristics, we can confirm this.
Well, this is good news, at least we now know in which direction he went.

Although I'm not sure what the other evidence is.....some personal articles or possessions maybe?
I wonder whe is abandoning them on the way.

Anyway, it's the most hopeful news we've had yet.
 
  • #212
It's a Chilean article from the country he went missing in, hence it's in Spanish. They speak Spanish in Chile!
I was just responding to an OP that stated it was Chilean Spanish. So the post you saw was a response to the original post. The OP was differentiating Spanish being spoken in Chile with their countrie's culture/customs etc. whatever else goes with linguisitcs. I believe it was kind of technical but IMO the technacality obscures from what is happening in Tom's case. MOO.
 
  • #213
I think we're having 2 separate discussions here, and I don't know if I can explain it any better, but I'll try.

I am not saying that the Google translation is inaccurate, or that either Sr Vega or Google was wrong in using "caracteristicas" / "characteristics." He said "caracteristicas," and that is translated, "characteristics" (or "area code," but that's clearly not what he was going for) in English.

I am saying that it does not make sense to dissect the use of an English word when it was not originally communicated in English. Not just in this example, but in anything that has been translated from 1 language to another.

So we cannot read anything into the choice of the word "characteristics" / "caracteristicas" over another word (like "attributes" or "designs" or what have you) because most of us here - are not deeply familiar with both Chilean Spanish and English.

I don't know if that's any clearer, and I know this is very off-topic, but it is good practice. If anyone else is able to further clarify what I'm trying to explain, feel free - my brain hurts.
So, what was he going for in English in your opinion. I would like your input if possible. By the way what does area code mean or what context I suppose is it being used in. Thanks.
 
  • #214
Even if the translation is 95% correct but incorrect in an instance where it's really crucial that it's correct then that's a potential problem. MOO

Repeat of own post because forgot to insert quote
I fully agree. Its a tool we can use, its a tool at our disposal instantly. Check out
it gives an idea of the accuracy. Its actually good because native speakers evaluate accuracy here's a quotation from the article "Furthermore, Google carried out a test that required native speakers of each language to rate the translation on a scale between 0 and 6, and Google Translate scored 5.43 on average.[13]"
 
  • #215
Here we are marching into November. After all this time, IMO there is no hope of finding him alive. :(
 
  • #216
So, what was he going for in English in your opinion. I would like your input if possible. By the way what does area code mean or what context I suppose is it being used in. Thanks.
No one here knows what were the objects found or why they are believed to belong to Tom Marsh, or so no one can say what Sr Vega means to convey about that evidence. His communication is accurate, I'm sure.

A second meaning of the word "caracteristicas" is "area code," like the prefix to a phone number. This meaning does not seem to fit here.
 
  • #217
I was just responding to an OP that stated it was Chilean Spanish. So the post you saw was a response to the original post. The OP was differentiating Spanish being spoken in Chile with their countrie's culture/customs etc. whatever else goes with linguisitcs. I believe it was kind of technical but IMO the technacality obscures from what is happening in Tom's case. MOO.

No, it wasn't that at all...... I was responding to 2 people who thought it was in Portuguese. Screenshots below.
That's why I was clarifying that they speak Spanish in Chile.
 

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  • #218
He has been there many times, His system is accustomed to it, however.

Doesn't work that way. Dr. Marsh works at Warwick University, and lives in Coventry, England -- elevation of 400 feet above sea level.

La Silla Observatory is 7900 feet above sea level.

It takes a couple days to adjust, and the articles indicate Dr. Marsh disappeared shortly after his arrival at the site.

Some people would still be jet lagged as well after the four hour time change from GMT in England.

Chile's standard time zone is UTC/GMT -4 hours.



Yes, as a returning scientist he likely knew about the adjustments to altitude -- but that does not get easier as we age.
 
  • #219
Well, this is good news, at least we now know in which direction he went.

Although I'm not sure what the other evidence is.....some personal articles or possessions maybe?
I wonder whe is abandoning them on the way.

Anyway, it's the most hopeful news we've had yet.
I am thinking these “objects” are FOOTPRINTS.

They would indicate what direction TM was walking, and could be identified as his based on his known shoe size and type of shoe he was wearing or had brought on the trip with him.
 
  • #220
No one here knows what were the objects found or why they are believed to belong to Tom Marsh, or so no one can say what Sr Vega means to convey about that evidence. His communication is accurate, I'm sure.

A second meaning of the word "caracteristicas" is "area code," like the prefix to a phone number. This meaning does not seem to fit here.
They weren't objects they were substances quoted by the original post way back. Yes I agree that word doesen't fit. I'd have to go back and look but is there any context even perhaps a small one for example area and somehow it got confused with area code?
 

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