Cleaning crew member shot and killed on porch after arriving at the wrong house

[sunspun]

I wonder if it was a blindly as he makes out? As stated in his words to police upthread, and from pictures of the front door (i will see if I can find msm pics of the door), there's a window above and one to the side of the front door, if the stairs are directly in front of the door, could he see through the top window from the top of the stairs? He may not have been able to see Maria if she was directly in front of the door, but maybe her husband talking to her?

I believe he did say to the 911 dispatcher after he shot that he could see someone on the phone and could hear crying, so if he could see that one of the people on the porch was using his phone, it wasn't too blind of a shot.

But if he told 911 he could hear them crying after he shot, then why did he also tell them they were still trying to come in, and that he was still afraid. That sounds like he went into CYA mode immediately after he shot.

 

[Megnut]

As an exercise, let's say there were actual criminals intent on harm. Is a home owner ever justified in shooting blindly through a locked door? His castle was fortressed by that locked door.

Even if it was a lock pick in the door, can a homeowner fire through a still-locked door?

No duty to retreat but that's not the same as right to engage. He wasn't firing a warning shot, which would have been reckless enough. He aimed perhaps for center mass, resulting in a killshot to the head (she wasn't very tall)...

But then when you consider that there was actually zero threat to home owner. No way to breach the lock with incorrect keys and no intent for harm. He killed a young mother for going to the wrong door...

Horrifying.

JMO

 

[Gators North]

It amazes me that even after LE arrived at the scene, the homeowner still wouldn’t come outside until he finally exited the back door. JMO

 

[Cryptic]

Andersen's attorney, Guy Relford, who specializes in the Second Amendment, doesn't agree. In a statement posted online, Relford said his client "had every reason to believe his actions were absolutely necessary and fully justified at the time."

That is very good to hear.

(A) The legal eagle does not appear to have any experience in criminal defense, yet appears to enjoy (B) grandstanding about a criminal case via public statements. Something tells me that "A" + "B" is going to add up to bad news for the defense.

 

[Cryptic]

or she could simply be subservient to her spouse and thought the man of the house and holder of the gun should speak to police.

Equally possible.

Then again, she still seems to be too forthcoming about the fact that the attempt to enter the house was not aggressive and hubby had stated a willingness to shoot intruders before.

My guess is that a subservient spouse would fall back on: Hubby knows best, so the attempt to enter the home must have been aggressive, very aggressive. Instead, I still get "distancing" vibes.

 

[sunspun]

It amazes me that even after LE arrived at the scene, the homeowner still wouldn’t come outside until he finally exited the back door. JMO

By that time, he may have seen what possibly lay ahead for him and was avoiding going outside to delay his inevitable arrest.

 

[sunspun]

That is very good to hear.

(A) The legal eagle does not appear to have any experience in criminal defense, yet appears to enjoy (B) grandstanding about a criminal case via public statements. Something tells me that "A" + "B" is going to add up to bad news for the defense.

He really doesn't have much experience as a criminal defense lawyer? He chose him just for his staunch pro-2A position? Sounds like a risky (imo, dumb) choice.

 

[Gators North]

By that time, he may have seen what possibly lay ahead for him and was avoiding going outside to delay his inevitable arrest.

Agreed. By that time he must have known that he’d either hurt someone really badly or killed them, since Maria’s husband was crying on the porch.

 

[tlcya]

Equally possible.

Then again, she still seems to be too forthcoming about the fact that the attempt to enter the house was not aggressive and hubby had stated a willingness to shoot intruders before.

My guess is that a subservient spouse would fall back on: Hubby knows best, so the attempt to enter the home must have been aggressive, very aggressive. Instead, I still get "distancing" vibes.

point taken, you may be right or we may both be right subservient but not to the point of lying to authorities to bolster her husband's excuses.

OT I wonder what had them up so late into the wee hours that they had only just gone to sleep a couple of hours before the cleaning couple arrived. Up til 2 or 3 am. Lort I am ready for bed and sleep at 9pm most nights.

 

[sunspun]

point taken, you may be right or we may both be right subservient but not to the point of lying to authorities to bolster her husband's excuses.

OT I wonder what had them up so late into the wee hours that they had only just gone to sleep a couple of hours before the cleaning couple arrived. Up til 2 or 3 am. Lort I am ready for bed and sleep at 9pm most nights.

He stated he and his wife were night owls, and this was a normal bedtime for them (in a linked article upthread from a local news outlet)

 

[Rolypolyoly]

I believe he did say to the 911 dispatcher after he shot that he could see someone on the phone and could hear crying, so if he could see that one of the people on the porch was using his phone, it wasn't too blind of a shot.

But if he told 911 he could hear them crying after he shot, then why did he also tell them they were still trying to come in, and that he was still afraid. That sounds like he went into CYA mode immediately after he shot.

True, which means his claim that he didnt mean from anyone to get hurt is not true, because he could see them there and shot directly at Maria! Seems quite premeditated to me.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

As an exercise, let's say there were actual criminals intent on harm. Is a home owner ever justified in shooting blindly through a locked door? His castle was fortressed by that locked door.

Even if it was a lock pick in the door, can a homeowner fire through a still-locked door?

No duty to retreat but that's not the same as right to engage. He wasn't firing a warning shot, which would have been reckless enough. He aimed perhaps for center mass, resulting in a killshot to the head (she wasn't very tall)...

But then when you consider that there was actually zero threat to home owner. No way to breach the lock with incorrect keys and no intent for harm. He killed a young mother for going to the wrong door...

Horrifying.

JMO

I was looking out of curiosity, and personally cannot find a case where someone blindly shot through a locked door and was not charged. But other sleuthers may be able to!

I think there’s a couple points to it. A locked door is a barrier. If the door itself is intact, courts will argue that the threat was not immediate. Also, there’s no visual confirmation. Even if you had someone threaten you that they were going to show up to your house with a gun, if you hear a knock and shoot indiscriminately without seeing the possible threat, you could very well shoot the mailman.

All IMO

 

[legalmomma]

From the PCA: Sleep on a futon in the loft area upstairs. No furniture in front room. No curtains but have lived there 4 years. Hmmmm

 

[Mauig’ma]

From the PCA: Sleep on a futon in the loft area upstairs. No furniture in front room. No curtains but have lived there 4 years. Hmmmm

Odd

 

[steeltowngirl]

Joe Biden once said, "[If] you want to keep someone away from your house, just fire the shotgun through the door."

Did Joe Biden Once Advise the Public to Use Shotguns for Self-Defense?

A meme featured an eye-catching quotation attributed to the former vice president.

www.snopes.com

Somehow I doubt this shooter was inspired by Biden.

JMO

 

[mickey2942]

Now that the shooter has been identified, I have changed my mind. Previously, I was thinking that the shooter could have been an elderly woman. And I could understand, perhaps the fear of a home invasion, or sexual assault. I would have more sympathetic for a woman. Especially if she had a history of assault.

But, a man? Forget it. Wait for the police, or for the people to cross the threshold.

 

[Lebowski]

By that time, he may have seen what possibly lay ahead for him and was avoiding going outside to delay his inevitable arrest.

i don't think he realized it until the end of the police interview when they told him who he'd shot. his reaction to that was significant.

why the delay exiting? not sure. still hiding in fear of the home invaders, maybe? if he thought the cleaners were an undercover murder squad, maybe he thought the cops were too?

 

[ChatteringBirds]

I really wonder how much of them he saw through the window. They are such kind-looking people. He saw enough to tell 911 that they were Hispanic. That tells me something, IMO.

 

[tlcya]

i don't think he realized it until the end of the police interview when they told him who he'd shot. his reaction to that was significant.

why the delay exiting? not sure. still hiding in fear of the home invaders, maybe? if he thought the cleaners were an undercover murder squad, maybe he thought the cops were too?

yeah that delay when he was told LE were there and requesting he exit the residence is troubling. He said he went upstairs and peeped out a window from which he could see a large LEO presence outside his home.

 

[julyj]

I can't understand where the world is coming to. What strucks me is that based on the article, many individuals were in the house. The cleaning crew wouldn't have a van parked somewhere close, with a logo? I get that they might think it was a freud, but, first shoot then ask? Everyone hot headed in this house?