Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #55 *ARREST*

[MassGuy]

According to KK's statement to LE, PF wanted her to kill KB and she couldn't bring herself to do it. Why is it such a stretch to believe she wouldn't find someone else to do it for her?

It isn't an "other" theory. PF has been charged with solicitation. To me, it doesn't matter who was solicited whether it was KK or someone else.

Planting a little blood (if it was blood) isn't staging a crime scene. There needs to be a lot of blood to the point there was no chance for survival.

I don't believe PF would premeditate a killing in a townhome using bloody violence, remove the body, purse and cell phone but leave behind bloody, incriminating evidence including the murder weapon, one of KB's teeth and risk someone finding the scene while KK made the long trip from Idaho. He didn't need to use a ball bat to kill KB. He was much bigger and could have used his bare hands, a choke hold or poisoned her coffee with the drugs KK intended to use.

JMO

It’s “a stretch,” because the evidence in no way supports it.

This idea that PF wouldn’t do anything as dumb as leaving a bloody crime scene or using a baseball bat as a weapon, is the definition of “weak sauce.”

This guy didn’t know how cell phones work.

There is no evidence that anyone other than PF murdered Kelsey, nor is there evidence that anything was planted.

Stupidity is not a defense.

 

[Area52]

According to KK's statement to LE, PF wanted her to kill KB and she couldn't bring herself to do it. Why is it such a stretch to believe she wouldn't find someone else to do it for her?

It isn't an "other" theory. PF has been charged with solicitation. To me, it doesn't matter who was solicited whether it was KK or someone else.

Planting a little blood (if it was blood) isn't staging a crime scene. There needs to be a lot of blood to the point there was no chance for survival.

I don't believe PF would premeditate a killing in a townhome using bloody violence, remove the body, purse and cell phone but leave behind bloody, incriminating evidence including the murder weapon, one of KB's teeth and risk someone finding the scene while KK made the long trip from Idaho. He didn't need to use a ball bat to kill KB. He was much bigger and could have used his bare hands, a choke hold or poisoned her coffee with the drugs KK intended to use.

JMO

PF is being charged with 8,count em,
8 separate crimes. The top one is murder. A judge, after seeing a small portion of the evidence against him, has decided that there is enough proof that PF has committed this murder, that he has denied him bail. The solicitation charge is minor compared to what the paramount charge is. Do you really believe he is being held without bail because of solicitation??

 

[MyBelle]

The condition of “NO BOND” was requested in the original APPLICATION FOR ARREST WARRANT and approved by signature of Judge Larry Martin, of Division E, El Paso County on Thursday, December 20, 2018. That condition has not changed.
Colorado Judicial Branch - Bio

Thanks for pointing that out. Plus, neither PF nor his defense attorney was allowed to read the content of that arrest warrant until more than a week after his arrest.

Judge allows Patrick Frazee to see his arrest affidavit; postpones preliminary hearing

 

[girlhasnoname]

PF actually had a pretty good plan. The weak link was KK.

Yes he did Mickey, albeit inhumane and very disturbing.

Unfortunately for Kelsey, she had picked up and moved away from the strong support of her family, friends and church. She was working a full time job and being pregnant/having baby K, so I don't think she had developed a network of local support yet.

That certainly worked to PF's advantage and I think he preferred having Kelsey out of the community social circles (he was juggling KK and who knows who else, and was driving the narrative of 'Kelsey is an alcoholic and child abuser, etc'). It bought him an extra week of cover up/disposal time and alibi building before Mama Bear Berreth put the squeeze to him and then raised the alarm.

 

[MassGuy]

Yes he did Mickey, albeit inhumane and very disturbing.

Unfortunately for Kelsey, she had picked up and moved away from the strong support of her family, friends and church. She was working a full time job and being pregnant/having baby K, so I don't think she had developed a network of local support yet.

That certainly worked to PF's advantage and I think he preferred having Kelsey out of the community social circles (he was juggling KK and who knows who else, and was driving the narrative of 'Kelsey is an alcoholic and child abuser, etc'). It bought him an extra week of cover up/disposal time and alibi building before Mama Bear Berreth put the squeeze to him and then raised the alarm.

Yeah. Kelsey was isolated from her support base, atleast in terms of distance.

From what I can gather, she was a quiet person by nature. If I recall correctly, her mom said that she focused on the quality of her friendships, over her quantity of friends.

With a full time job and a baby to care for, it doesn’t appear that she had an opportunity to interact with a great number of people on a daily basis.

Her friends would chalk up any lack of communication to Kelsey being busy.

This played right into PF’s hands, as all he had to do was keep Kelsey’s mom at bay.

That’s where the fake text messages and lies came in.

It bought him time to muddy the waters. Unfortunately for him, the lies he told are both documented, and inexplicable.

Inexplicable if you’re saying you are innocent anyways.

 

[Seattle1]

Planting a little blood (if it was blood) isn't staging a crime scene. There needs to be a lot of blood to the point there was no chance for survival.

I don't believe PF would premeditate a killing in a townhome using bloody violence, remove the body, purse and cell phone but leave behind bloody, incriminating evidence including the murder weapon, one of KB's teeth and risk someone finding the scene while KK made the long trip from Idaho. He didn't need to use a ball bat to kill KB. He was much bigger and could have used his bare hands, a choke hold or poisoned her coffee with the drugs KK intended to use.

JMO

^^SBM

I don't think it was coincidence that PF chose Thanksgiving holiday to murder KB.

He knew that this date would extend the time before KB would be discovered missing. He used the holiday to buy himself time, and reasonable alibi for KB to leave town to visit her grandmother.

It would be days before KB had to report back to work.

He knew KB's habits, and that she did not have local family or friends that might "stop by" for a visit, or be alarmed she was not home or had not been seen.

KB's life revolved around PF and her daughter.

PF had no fear leaving the crime scene overnight for KK to come clean up for him.

Also, it's pretty much impossible to plant blood spatter and or fake splattering --plenty of forensic blood stain analysis for reference.

MOO

 

[Gigi3]

Yeah. Kelsey was isolated from her support base, atleast in terms of distance.

From what I can gather, she was a quiet person by nature. If I recall correctly, her mom said that she focused on the quality of her friendships, over her quantity of friends.

With a full time job and a baby to care for, it doesn’t appear that she had an opportunity to interact with a great number of people on a daily basis.

Her friends would chalk up any lack of communication to Kelsey being busy.

This played right into PF’s hands, as all he had to do was keep Kelsey’s mom at bay.

That’s where the fake text messages and lies came in.

It bought him time to muddy the waters. Unfortunately for him, the lies he told are both documented, and inexplicable.

Inexplicable if you’re saying you are innocent anyways.

Agreed. I would love to know what, if any, his internet searches showed. Maybe that’s where he got the whole idea of the blinfolding, scented candles ruse. Then again, KK could have definitely given him the idea. IDK but I think that detail is so fantastical that is has to be true! MOO

 

[Dave F.]

Once again, for the record......

December 20, 2018 - "NO BOND" was set by Judge Larry Martin of El Paso County

February 18, 2019 - The Amended Complaint featuring eight counts was signed by the Senior Deputy District Attorney

February 20, 2019 - The Amended Complaint featuring eight counts was accepted by Judge Sam Sells of Teller County

The setting of "No Bond" clearly preceeded the filing of eight charges against PF, by 52 days. IMO

https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...18CR330/Amended Complaint and Information.pdf

 

[Seattle1]

Agreed. I would love to know what, if any, his internet searches showed. Maybe that’s where he got the whole idea of the blinfolding, scented candles ruse. Then again, KK could have definitely given him the idea. IDK but I think that detail is so fantastical that is has to be true! MOO

PF is a coward. I've no doubt his preference would be to blindfold and strike a helpless, unsuspecting woman-- than face her, and take a chance of KB defending herself.

 

[MyBelle]

^^SBM

I don't think it was coincidence that PF chose Thanksgiving holiday to murder KB.

He knew that this date would extend the time before KB would be discovered missing. He used the holiday to buy himself time, and reasonable alibi for KB to leave town to visit her grandmother.

It would be days before KB had to report back to work.

He knew KB's habits, and that she did not have local family or friends that might "stop by" for a visit, or be alarmed she was not home or had not been seen.

KB's life revolved around PF and her daughter.

PF had no fear leaving the crime scene overnight for KK to come clean up for him.

Also, it's pretty much impossible to plant blood spatter and or fake splattering --plenty of forensic blood stain analysis for reference.

MOO

BBM. I agree which is why LE didn't find it. We don't know what KK planted or if it contained KB's DNA. We only know the blood found by KB's mother contained KB's DNA.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

According to KK's statement to LE, PF wanted her to kill KB and she couldn't bring herself to do it. Why is it such a stretch to believe she wouldn't find someone else to do it for her?

It is a stretch for a few reasons.
PF was the one with custody issues, and the one who wanted KB dead and gone.

KK lived 800 miles away from the victim. How is she going to find someone willing to travel that far ?

And how is she going to pay them?

It isn't an "other" theory. PF has been charged with solicitation. To me, it doesn't matter who was solicited whether it was KK or someone else.

Wait, I thought you just said that 'KK found someone else to do it for her'? One paragraph up that is was you stated. Now you are saying that PF was the one who hired a hitman?

Planting a little blood (if it was blood) isn't staging a crime scene.

Planting blood in a missing woman's condo is not staging a crime scene? Since when?

There needs to be a lot of blood to the point there was no chance for survival.

Not necessarily. It is still a crime scene, if someone was assaulted and kidnapped there, and there was only minimal blood.

IIRC, in this case there was evidence of blood splatter, which indicates stabbing or blunt force assault. And the blood under the floorboards indicates there was a lot of blood at one time.

So this was not someone planting a little blood. JMO

I don't believe PF would premeditate a killing in a townhome using bloody violence, remove the body, purse and cell phone but leave behind bloody, incriminating evidence including the murder weapon, one of KB's teeth and risk someone finding the scene while KK made the long trip from Idaho.

Why wouldn't he leave her body there?
He knew no-one was coming to see her that day. He knew no-one had a key but her brother and he was out of state. So being locked up in her condo was the best place to hide her for now.

He had the baby with him, and he was expected at T-Giving dinner. So he had no way to dispose of her himself at that time anyway.

He didn't need to use a ball bat to kill KB. He was much bigger and could have used his bare hands, a choke hold or poisoned her coffee with the drugs KK intended to use.

JMO

A husband in Florida beat his wife to death with a baseball bat last month.
Deputies say Florida man beat wife to death with baseball bat before stashing her and 4 children’s bodies: report

It's not all that unusual.

Pf could have choked or poisoned her. But maybe he wanted to beat her to death. Seems like the choice some killers prefer.

 

[MassGuy]

BBM. I agree which is why LE didn't find it. We don't know what KK planted or if it contained KB's DNA. We only know the blood found by KB's mother contained KB's DNA.

JMO

BBM
We don’t know she planted anything in the first place.

There is zero evidence to support this claim.

 

[mickey2942]

If PF had cleaned up the scene himself, and tossed the cell phone away, he wouldn't be in jail now.

He over thought the crime. And involving KK was a mistake. I believe that KK is actually afraid of PF. She saw what he did to Kelsey. Who would want to be with PF, after seeing that type of violence? Definitely wouldn't be an aphrodisiac for romance.

KK saw telling the story as a way out, because PF could have easily realized KK was a liability, and she could have had an "accident" at any time. Falling while hiking, whatever...it was only a matter of time.

 

[katydid23]

BBM. I agree which is why LE didn't find it. We don't know what KK planted or if it contained KB's DNA. We only know the blood found by KB's mother contained KB's DNA.

JMO

Wait...so the blood that KK planted is NOT the same blood that KB's mom found?

How does that work?

What evidence is there that KK planted any blood then?

 

[MyBelle]

If PF had cleaned up the scene himself, and tossed the cell phone away, he wouldn't be in jail now.

He over thought the crime. And involving KK was a mistake. I believe that KK is actually afraid of PF. She saw what he did to Kelsey. Who would want to be with PF, after seeing that type of violence? Definitely wouldn't be an aphrodisiac for romance.

KK saw telling the story as a way out, because PF could have easily realized KK was a liability, and she could have had an "accident" at any time. Falling while hiking, whatever...it was only a matter of time.

If KK was actually afraid of PF, she would not have lied to the FBI.

One of KK's friends told the media that KK told her that PF threatened to harm her child. Other than tell that friend, I'm not aware that she did anything to ensure the safety of her child.

JMO

 

[PommyMommy]

Agreed. I would love to know what, if any, his internet searches showed. Maybe that’s where he got the whole idea of the blinfolding, scented candles ruse. Then again, KK could have definitely given him the idea. IDK but I think that detail is so fantastical that is has to be true! MOO

Yep, yep.

It's been discounted many times because "a man wouldn't think of that," as if PF has never had any women in his life. This could have been something he did with a prior girlfriend for all we know. He didn't have to come up with it himself out of the blue. MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Once again, for the record......

December 20, 2018 - "NO BOND" was set by Judge Larry Martin of El Paso County

February 18, 2019 - The Amended Complaint featuring eight counts was signed by the Senior Deputy District Attorney

February 20, 2019 - The Amended Complaint featuring eight counts was accepted by Judge Sam Sells of Teller County

The setting of "No Bond" clearly preceeded the filing of eight charges against PF, by 52 days. IMO

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/Amended Complaint and Information.pdf

Dave, I’m trying to understand the significance of this information. To me, it just indicates that the judge found PF to be that dangerous and/ or a flight risk even earlier than the charges being filed.

What am I missing?

 

[Gigi3]

Honestly, I think PF is so self absorbed that he never considered the idea that KK would even get a plea deal, much less accept it.
I think he figured she was up to her eyeballs in the whole situation and would NEVER sell him out. Especially, knowing that she tried not once but THREE times to murder Kelsey.
In PFs mind, he saw KK as equally culpable and figured she would sink right along with him if she were to ever admit to anything.
I’m absolutely disgusted by KK’s actions, BUT I am thankful that she will hopefully be able to put him away for life. MOO

 

[Area52]

Wait...so the blood that KK planted is NOT the same blood that KB's mom found?

How does that work?

What evidence is there that KK planted any blood then?

There is no evidence that KK planted blood. Some people just add illogical and unsubstantiated info to their posts to p**s people off!

 

[MassGuy]

Honestly, I think PF is so self absorbed that he never considered the idea that KK would even get a plea deal, much less accept it.
I think he figured she was up to her eyeballs in the whole situation and would NEVER sell him out. Especially, knowing that she tried not once but THREE times to murder Kelsey.
In PFs mind, he saw KK as equally culpable and figured she would sink right along with him if she were to ever admit to anything.
I’m absolutely disgusted by KK’s actions, BUT I am thankful that she will hopefully be able to put him away for life. MOO

Totally agree.

He saw her as part of this, and it’s not like he was wrong.

What he didn’t plan on was authorities being able to make the connection to KK, and KK talking if they did.

Those damn phones again...