Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #55 *ARREST*

[MemPat]

Life in 2 sentences.....

#1 True story of life in the real world:
When you're sitting at a company dinner next to the Vice President's wife/Macbeth witch with whom you disagree on most everything, you're just stuck.

#2 True story of life sitting on your sofa:
When you're eating a burger while on a WS thread and posts pop up with which you don't agree, you can discuss to your heart's content or just move along to the next and the next and the next.

The End

 

[crhedBngr]

Interesting. Well, a nurse was hired by a facility here, and promptly fired when the news publicized about her felony conviction for elder abuse! WTH?!

I know, I know.

I've expressed frustration every time I check the type of her license and the expiration date. (And, pitched a hissy fit or two.) She has an "unencumbered" license, which means:

that the nurse has a full and unrestricted license to practice by the state board of nursing.

Her license is due to expire in August, 2021. And, as of today, she can practice nursing in roughly 30 other states.

Above data obtained from Nursys®

 

[katydid23]

Nope, that isn’t my question. Think about it, sometimes if it is just a theory there is nothing to pick apart. So all you have to say is that you don’t see it that way. We don’t have all the evidence.

Tell you what, I can wait till trial and then if prosecution or the defense introduces evidence we haven’t heard, and they will, can we then offer a theory that won’t be picked apart?

See, I thought this was a thread where people shared their ideas, no matter if it sounds crazy to others. The other threads are that way.

If the trial was over and there was a resolution then I would agree that no one should pick it apart.

I just don’t want to see any of us picking each other apart because we disagree.

If someone puts out their murder theory, in a post, on a crime discussion board, the others are going to discuss that theory. Otherwise why bother?

And the process of discussing a murder theory, includes criticising some of it's aspects or assumptions. What else can one do?

 

[katydid23]

I know, I know.

I've expressed frustration every time I check the type of her license and the expiration date. She has an "unencumbered" license, which means:

Her license is due to expire in August, 2021. And, as of today, she can practice nursing in roughly 30 other states.

Above data obtained from Nursys®

UGH, that bothers me to no end. I cannot stand the thought of her 'caring' for patients. She shouldn't be that close to anyone vulnerable.

If I was one of the victim's friends or family, I would keep track of her employment and routinely send her potential employers notices about her past deeds and transgressions.

 

[mickey2942]

UGH, that bothers me to no end. I cannot stand the thought of her 'caring' for patients. She shouldn't be that close to anyone vulnerable.

If I was one of the victim's friends or family, I would keep track of her employment and routinely send her potential employers notices about her past deeds and transgressions.

Or the media.

 

[gitana1]

I have a genuine question for everyone. Why do we have to only discuss the one theory police have, and KK gave? This is a thread dedicated to KB. We want her killer to get convicted. Why do you not want posters to comment on alternate theories?

Since there has been no trial and no conviction, why does it irritate you that someone thinks PF could have wanted to hire a hit man and paid KK to find him? He would still have the same result. But since LE tied KK to this, isn’t it possible she didn’t want to say she paid a hit man for fear of that person? And since LE knew there were solicitations it was better for her to lay the blame on PF?

I understand the simplest theory is usually right but why are other ideas attacked? When you do that you run other posters off the thread. Is that the goal here?

It’s a fair question. If you want us gone, say so. Otherwise, we just join in unison and it makes for a dull thread.

Who says we can't discuss all sorts of theories? Isn't that exactly what we're doing? "Discuss" shouldn't be confused with "agree".

We examine each ofher's theories. We discuss and debate them. I really don't understand what's going on here. People are discussing each other's theories but it seems as if mere disagreement is being twisted into: "You're not allowed to state that here." Who ever said such a thing?

 

[gitana1]

^^SBM

I promise you the Police do not go over theories as you propose.

Police theories are based on the facts available to them.

If they have evidence a suspect drove from Vancouver BC to Yukon, they might theorize the route, where they stopped, or if they drove straight through but they wouldn't theorize they drove Vancouver to Denver to Yukon because the facts don't support that whatsoever.

Proposing a theory that the suspect drove to Denver is fantasy, and Police would tell you that it's ludicrous.

I think there might be a thread on WS that you can make up facts so you can hypothesize, but this is a real case with real evidence.

MOO

Ditto. There's no: "We need to discuss 1)Mexican cartel; 2)Human trafficking; 3) Incels; 4) Drug trafficking; 5) Alien abduction", etc., unless facts point in one of those directions.

 

[PommyMommy]

Ditto. There's no: "We need to discuss 1)Mexican cartel; 2)Human trafficking; 3) Incels; 4) Drug trafficking; 5) Alien abduction", etc., unless facts point in one of those directions.

I'd like to add hitmen to that. MOO

 

[MassGuy]

BBM. I agree. The DA isn't up for reelection so his sweet plea deal with KK was a gamble only if he aspires to another political office AND if PF isn't convicted. I think the jury will have no trouble convicting PF on the solicitation charges. There is a real possibility this was a hired hit all along. I don't believe PF asked KK to do it herself, I think she was supposed to come up with the assassin and did so. Assassins don't hang around and clean up their mess or dispose of the body and other evidence.

I do have a legal question for you: can there be a conviction on all three solicitation charges?

JMO

How does the evidence support a hired hit?

We know Kelsey was alive when they exchanged the baby.

We know PF returned to the house after this point, despite his lie to law enforcement (camera footage and cell phone evidence).

We know that PF spent over two hours there, and when he left, Kelsey’s phone left.

When did this supposed hit man kill Kelsey?

Why did PF tell this enormous lie?

Why did Kelsey’s phone leave with PF?

Why was Kelsey never heard from or seen ever again?

Using the evidence, can you walk us through this?

 

[MyBelle]

Nope, that isn’t my question. Think about it, sometimes if it is just a theory there is nothing to pick apart. So all you have to say is that you don’t see it that way. We don’t have all the evidence.

Tell you what, I can wait till trial and then if prosecution or the defense introduces evidence we haven’t heard, and they will, can we then offer a theory that won’t be picked apart?

See, I thought this was a thread where people shared their ideas, no matter if it sounds crazy to others. The other threads are that way.

If the trial was over and there was a resolution then I would agree that no one should pick it apart.

I just don’t want to see any of us picking each other apart because we disagree.

What is your theory about how all this went down? Do you believe the scented candles story? It doesn't seem to me to be a scenario a cowboy would think up on his own.

The solicitation isn't just a theory considering PF has been charged with three counts of it. And I do agree the defense has a lot more information than we have. We do know KK told LE that PF solicited HER. We also know KK initially lied to the FBI and they caught her in her lie. Most lies contain a small nugget of truth, imo.


JMO

 

[MyBelle]

^^SBM

I promise you the Police do not go over theories as you propose.

Police theories are based on the facts available to them.

If they have evidence a suspect drove from Vancouver BC to Yukon, they might theorize the route, where they stopped, or if they drove straight through but they wouldn't theorize they drove Vancouver to Denver to Yukon because the facts don't support that whatsoever.

Proposing a theory that the suspect drove to Denver is fantasy, and Police would tell you that it's ludicrous.

I think there might be a thread on WS that you can make up facts so you can hypothesize, but this is a real case with real evidence.

MOO

BBM. Actually, based on media reports about this case that is exactly what police did is create theories based on the evidence. It is up to the jury to decide if that evidence is factual and credible. In fact, DA May said early on charges were based on theories. afaik, the investigation into this case is still ongoing. Their theory that PF solicited KK is based on what KK told them. Her testimony will be evidence and the jury will decide if she is credible. The burden rests squarely on the prosecution.

The defense has two investigators on their witness list. I'm assuming those two investigators have valid testimony the jury will find credible. Even though DA May told the media months ago that one charge is based on a theory of robbery, I've not seen any discussion by DA May or the media since then.

JMO

District Attorney Dan May clarified that the two counts of murder correspond to two different theories, with the first charge being "after deliberation" and the second murder charge being related to an alleged robbery that resulted in Berreth's death. May wouldn't elaborate on why three separate solicitation charges were filed.

https://www.krdo.com/news/top-stori...avit-with-reason-for-murder-charges/965495931

 

[k-mac]

my biggest beef with kk's deal is why why why the no doubt watered down (who me??) self admitted version of her conspiracy attempts on KB not enough to charge her with stuff......

BUT we know, this info didn't come to light till she had her deal firmly in place.
two points on that imo LE were screwed over by her and her excellent legal representation LE hate the I am sure but they know she didn't physically kill Kelsey and have let all that slide for honesty and proof of statements and accusations .

the second.... my guess LE EXPECTED a body from KKs deal.

and that.......makes me very mad.

just my gut feelings about why when we know what we know happened what happened......u know u know?? lol

 

[MassGuy]

BBM. Actually, based on media reports about this case that is exactly what police did is create theories based on the evidence. It is up to the jury to decide if that evidence is factual and credible. In fact, DA May said early on charges were based on theories. afaik, the investigation into this case is still ongoing. Their theory that PF solicited KK is based on what KK told them. Her testimony will be evidence and the jury will decide if she is credible. The burden rests squarely on the prosecution.

The defense has two investigators on their witness list. I'm assuming those two investigators have valid testimony the jury will find credible. Even though DA May told the media months ago that one charge is based on a theory of robbery, I've not seen any discussion by DA May or the media since then.

JMO

District Attorney Dan May clarified that the two counts of murder correspond to two different theories, with the first charge being "after deliberation" and the second murder charge being related to an alleged robbery that resulted in Berreth's death. May wouldn't elaborate on why three separate solicitation charges were filed.

Patrick Frazee gets access to affidavit with reason for murder charges

@Seattle1 said that police don’t just make up theories; they use the evidence to formulate them.

You agreed with her, but made it sound like you disagreed.

 

[MemPat]

BBM. Actually, based on media reports about this case that is exactly what police did is create theories based on the evidence. It is up to the jury to decide if that evidence is factual and credible. In fact, DA May said early on charges were based on theories. afaik, the investigation into this case is still ongoing. Their theory that PF solicited KK is based on what KK told them. Her testimony will be evidence and the jury will decide if she is credible. The burden rests squarely on the prosecution.

The defense has two investigators on their witness list. I'm assuming those two investigators have valid testimony the jury will find credible. Even though DA May told the media months ago that one charge is based on a theory of robbery, I've not seen any discussion by DA May or the media since then.

JMO

District Attorney Dan May clarified that the two counts of murder correspond to two different theories, with the first charge being "after deliberation" and the second murder charge being related to an alleged robbery that resulted in Berreth's death. May wouldn't elaborate on why three separate solicitation charges were filed.

Patrick Frazee gets access to affidavit with reason for murder charges

BBM


Now we're cookin'!

Theories based on evidence!

 

[steeltowngirl]

LOL! Don’t cry. We won’t discuss football. Off topic. But let me just say Tom Brady is real easy on the eyes. So if anyone just has to bring up football, let’s talk about him.

Arrrgghh now THAT hurts. Lol.

How about we talk about Antonio Brown instead?
9 million for 11 days work....

That’s even more a sweet beauty of a deal than the rodeo queen got!

 

[MemPat]

@Seattle1 said that police don’t just make up theories; they use the evidence to formulate them.

You agreed with her, but made it sound like you disagreed.

You said it better and first!

Consider my post a High Five, MG.

 

[MyBelle]

Not afraid MG. Police go over many theories all the time. They aren’t fantasies. The one theory I mentioned, posed by someone else, is based on the very few acts and evidence at this time.

You do understand well exactly what I said. And you know it is with good intention. But yes, you come across as mean spirited and that’s too bad, really.

And you also gave me my answer without even meaning to.

So thanks for that.

BBM. Right. The theory of robbery that DA May initially proposed wasn't based on fantasy. Police develop theories as they follow the evidence. That's what they are supposed to do and I have no doubt in a case that has involved local, state and federal LE, it was done here.

One aspect of this case which I think is unusual is that PF was arrested and held without bond and, at first, neither he nor his attorney even knew what the arrest affidavit contained. I can't recall a similar case I've followed.

I don't believe KB was ever in the landfill and I applaud LE for investing the time, expertise and $$$ in the search of the landfill. I think that was a big lie by KK and if this makes it to trial, more of her lies will be exposed. Who knows, maybe PF cuts a deal?

JMO

 

[MemPat]

my biggest beef with kk's deal is why why why the no doubt watered down (who me??) self admitted version of her conspiracy attempts on KB not enough to charge her with stuff......

BUT we know, this info didn't come to light till she had her deal firmly in place.
two points on that imo LE were screwed over by her and her excellent legal representation LE hate the ***** I am sure but they know she didn't physically kill Kelsey and have let all that slide for honesty and proof of statements and accusations .

the second.... my guess LE EXPECTED a body from KKs deal.

and that.......makes me very mad.

just my gut feelings about why when we know what we know happened what happened......u know u know?? lol

When I feel the frustration of the sweetie beauty of a deal, I take a deep breath and remember that Kelsey's baby had already spent a good bit of time with the Frazees during which the Berreth family wasn't allowed to see her, having no clue whether PF would kill her or run off with her, Mama and all.

The Berreth's would have agreed to most anything to get that baby in their arms and if they're good with it, I'm good with it.

Disappointed, but good.

MOO

 

[MyBelle]

@Seattle1 said that police don’t just make up theories; they use the evidence to formulate them.

You agreed with her, but made it sound like you disagreed.

I didn't say I agreed with her. Not at all. For some reason that poster believes facts and evidence are one and the same and you do as well. They are not. A jury decides what evidence is credible.

That poster said: I promise you the Police do not go over theories as you propose. Police theories are based on the facts available to them.

I provided a link to a media report about this case that supports that police DO develop theories based on evidence and it is not unusual as the case unfolds that the theory changes. I think everyone here agrees, this case did not involve a robbery which was an initial theory proposed by DA Dan May.

JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Ditto. There's no: "We need to discuss 1)Mexican cartel; 2)Human trafficking; 3) Incels; 4) Drug trafficking; 5) Alien abduction", etc., unless facts point in one of those directions.

Or, if you are on the Abby and Libby thread...