Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #55 *ARREST*

[MassGuy]

Still, DNA of a male other than PF was found in the condo, and neither PF's DNA or his fingerprints were found. If KK cleaned up so well as to wipe away all traces of the killer, how does one explain KKL leaving all of the other samples that were presumptive positive?
Just asking. The question has bothered me for months, and I don't have an answer. JMO

I dunno. I still don’t think she’s telling the truth in regard to purposely leaving blood, but I guess it is possible.

I think another explanation is the fact that she described the scene as being very bloody, and that doesn’t lend itself to being able to clean up every drop.

Blunt force trauma creates medium velocity blood splatter. It’s going to to end up on the floor, the walls, objects, and even the ceiling.

It’s not like she could get under the floorboards either.

I’m not the least bit concerned about unknown DNA being found either. I don’t anticipate the source ever being discovered.

It won’t matter.

 

[?mysterian?]

I dunno. I still don’t think she’s telling the truth in regard to purposely leaving blood, but I guess it is possible.

I think another explanation is the fact that she described the scene as being very bloody, and that doesn’t lend itself to being able to clean up every drop.

Blunt force trauma creates medium velocity blood splatter. It’s going to to end up on the floor, the walls, objects, and even the ceiling.

It’s not like she could get under the floorboards either.

I’m not the least bit concerned about unknown DNA being found either. I don’t anticipate the source ever being discovered.

It won’t matter.

The unknown DNA could be from a service worker.

What would be more interesting to me would be to expect PF's DNA to be present, since he and KB were together at some point and shared a child, and then not find any there.

 

[MyBelle]

Didn't KB's mom and dad stay at her condo after she "disappeared" and before they found the blood? I'm leaning towards the male DNA being that of KB's dad.

jmo

I don't remember if it was her mom and dad or her mom and brother staying there but they did take their DNA.

11:27 a.m.


Slater said investigators collected swabs of Cheryl and Clint Berreth and they took a toothbrush, mouthguard and a bottle nipple from Kelsey’s bathroom. They said the blood returned with a high number, meaning investigators believe Kelsey Berreth’s blood was found in the bathroom.

Live blog: Patrick Frazee appears in court for preliminary hearing

 

[Dave F.]

You have some excellent points for sure, but in the Arrest Affidavit, Attachment A, Page 8, Item 66 it states:

"Frazee was concerned he left a tooth behind in the residence, because when he hit her in the face with the bat, it presumably caused several of her teeth to become dislodged."

In the face? In the living room? ......and it was cleaned up by one person in about four hours?
You don't need to reply, even though I phrased it as questions, it's really JMO

 

[MyBelle]

The unknown DNA could be from a service worker.

What would be more interesting to me would be to expect PF's DNA to be present, since he and KB were together at some point and shared a child, and then not find any there.

At the preliminary hearing, the prosecution didn't mention any service workers being in the condo. Who would have hired them?

 

[MassGuy]

You have some excellent points for sure, but in the Arrest Affidavit, Attachment A, Page 8, Item 66 it states:

"Frazee was concerned he left a tooth behind in the residence, because when he hit her in the face with the bat, it presumably caused several of her teeth to become dislodged."

In the face? In the living room? ......and it was cleaned up by one person in about four hours?
You don't need to reply, even though I phrased it as questions, it's really JMO

I don’t know why this is hard to believe. KK came with cleaning supplies, and was able to point out spots she missed when she was brought back there by law enforcement.

Obviously this rang true to investigators and the prosecution.

Law enforcement was convinced she had been in the house before, and cell phone data showed her phone as being in the area of Kelsey’s house, on the day and time this cleaning supposedly occurred.

Of course she initially lied, saying she was at PF’s house at that time, but that data said otherwise.

 

[susiQ]

she's not stupid......not by a long shot.
moo

SABBM
Are you 100% sure?? I'm going with incredibly stupid

 

[MyBelle]

You have some excellent points for sure, but in the Arrest Affidavit, Attachment A, Page 8, Item 66 it states:

"Frazee was concerned he left a tooth behind in the residence, because when he hit her in the face with the bat, it presumably caused several of her teeth to become dislodged."

In the face? In the living room? ......and it was cleaned up by one person in about four hours?
You don't need to reply, even though I phrased it as questions, it's really JMO

Her comments are a jumble of contradictions for sure. She told Slater the crime scene was the back office/bedroom. Yet she claimed there was blood spatter on tin foil covering cinnamon rolls in the kitchen. ( I think we know where the missing cinnamon roll went.)

Twice, she told cops she left "clues" because she wanted cops to find the clues and contact her. She said she left the blood clues and also said she left her phone on so they could call her. How would cops know to contact HER? When they did contact her, she lied and got caught in the lie.

JMO
2:05 p.m.
Kenney did find a tooth but threw it away. When she was done, she put the trash bags out front, got her car and then picked up the trash before going to Sonic.

2:04 p.m.
Per Slater, Kenney says she purposely left blood spatter in certain areas of the house. That includes spots on the fireplace, a switch near the fireplace, and the baby gate that was leaning on the wall that leads upstairs. Why she did that? She told Slater she wanted police to find that and find her soon.

1:58 p.m.
Kenney collected a stuff animal, tin foil on top of cinnamon rolls, some of Kaylee’s toys and some cookie cutters that Frazee told her to clean. She put those in trash bags, along with curtains, pillows & a Bible with blood on it, and discarded those items.


1:57 p.m.
Going room by room starting in the living room, Frazee told Kenney to grab a sweater, look for a tooth in a vent & clean up Kaylee’s toys covered in blood.

 

[GordianKnot]

I dunno. I still don’t think she’s telling the truth in regard to purposely leaving blood, but I guess it is possible.

I think another explanation is the fact that she described the scene as being very bloody, and that doesn’t lend itself to being able to clean up every drop.

Blunt force trauma creates medium velocity blood splatter. It’s going to to end up on the floor, the walls, objects, and even the ceiling.

It’s not like she could get under the floorboards either.

I’m not the least bit concerned about unknown DNA being found either. I don’t anticipate the source ever being discovered.

It won’t matter.

I don't believe for one red, hot skinny minute that KK intentionally left blood behind for LE to find.

For one thing, if that were true, she would have clasped LE to her (not inconsiderable) bosom and exclaimed, "Oh, thank heavens you found me!" when they first came knocking on her door...instead, she tried to lie her way out of it.

I think she did a superficially adequate job of cleaning the crime scene. It sounds like she bagged any objects she could that were bloody, e.g., toys, pillows, Bibles, etc. and what she couldn't bag up got the bleach treatment.

I don't think she went painstakingly over every inch of walls, floors, ceilings, appliances, etc.

I think KK wanted to get in and out of that house as quickly as possible. She had no way of knowing if and when someone was going to show up at KBs looking for her.

I'm unhappy with whatever LEO did the initial wellness check/walkthrough at KBs. That blood in the bathroom should have been spotted, ditto the blood on the tv, I think it was, although I need to double-check that. I also think it's very possible the unknown male DNA found at KB's could have been left by a male LEO.

JMO.

 

[Dave F.]

I don’t know why this is hard to believe. KK came with cleaning supplies, and was able to point out spots she missed when she was brought back there by law enforcement.

Obviously this rang true to investigators and the prosecution.

Law enforcement was convinced she had been in the house before, and cell phone data showed her phone as being in the area of Kelsey’s house, on the day and time this cleaning supposedly occurred.

Of course she initially lied, saying she was at PF’s house at that time, but that data said otherwise.

My friend was struck in the face, with a five foot length of wood. One investigator told a mutual friend that if he was ever called to another scene like that again, he would quit the force. The best cleaners employed by the state of Colorado have tried to get rid of the stains, and it's still obvious all over the room fifty years later. That is my only experience with medium velocity blood splatter from a direct hit in the face. This one just seems so different somehow, like almost surreal. JMO

 

[MassGuy]

My friend was struck in the face, with a five foot length of wood. One investigator told a mutual friend that if he was ever called to another scene like that again, he would quit the force. The best cleaners employed by the state of Colorado have tried to get rid of the stains, and it's still obvious all over the room fifty years later. That is my only experience with medium velocity blood splatter from a direct hit in the face. This one just seems so different somehow, like almost surreal. JMO

Ok, so if you don’t buy the baseball bat story, how do you think blood got under the floorboards, on the fireplace, and wherever else it was found?

 

[k-mac]

SABBM
Are you 100% sure?? I'm going with incredibly stupid

your too quick susiQ I addressed this lol

 

[MyBelle]

I don’t know why this is hard to believe. KK came with cleaning supplies, and was able to point out spots she missed when she was brought back there by law enforcement.

Obviously this rang true to investigators and the prosecution.

Law enforcement was convinced she had been in the house before, and cell phone data showed her phone as being in the area of Kelsey’s house, on the day and time this cleaning supposedly occurred.

Of course she initially lied, saying she was at PF’s house at that time, but that data said otherwise.

I have no doubt KK was in KB's condo Thanksgiving weekend. She admitted she had been there before and she was removing DNA evidence of her and PF. She told Slater she used KB's Oxiclean and Windex. She pointed out the clues she claimed she left behind because she wanted LE to contact her. If the blood spatter belonged to KB, how was LE supposed to know to call KK specifically? And, at the preliminary hearing, Slater said the testing had not yet come back on the things she pointed out.

2:04 p.m.


Per Slater, Kenney says she purposely left blood spatter in certain areas of the house. That includes spots on the fireplace, a switch near the fireplace, and the baby gate that was leaning on the wall that leads upstairs. Why she did that? She told Slater she wanted police to find that and find her soon.

 

[MassGuy]

I have no doubt KK was in KB's condo Thanksgiving weekend. She admitted she had been there before and she was removing DNA evidence of her and PF. She told Slater she used KB's Oxiclean and Windex. She pointed out the clues she claimed she left behind because she wanted LE to contact her. If the blood spatter belonged to KB, how was LE supposed to know to call KK specifically? And, at the preliminary hearing, Slater said the testing had not yet come back on the things she pointed out.

2:04 p.m.


Per Slater, Kenney says she purposely left blood spatter in certain areas of the house. That includes spots on the fireplace, a switch near the fireplace, and the baby gate that was leaning on the wall that leads upstairs. Why she did that? She told Slater she wanted police to find that and find her soon.

I’ve already said that I don’t believe for a second that she left blood so law enforcement could solve this.

Had she done that, she wouldn’t have lied to the FBI when they did link her to PF, and this crime.

 

[MemPat]

You have some excellent points for sure, but in the Arrest Affidavit, Attachment A, Page 8, Item 66 it states:

"Frazee was concerned he left a tooth behind in the residence, because when he hit her in the face with the bat, it presumably caused several of her teeth to become dislodged."

In the face? In the living room? ......and it was cleaned up by one person in about four hours?
You don't need to reply, even though I phrased it as questions, it's really JMO

I'm not one who struggles with a healthy, highly motivated person being able to clean up a tiny condo by herself in four hours. Knowing it was not perfectly cleaned makes it even easier to believe.

I can picture the frenzy as KK worried about someone showing up at the door.

She is/was a nurse who received hours of training in cleaning up blood and other bodily fluids which the hospital was required to test her on annually. She knew exactly what highly absorbent implements and which chemicals were required and she brought them along with her hazmat suit.

No time had to be used to rinse out the cleaning materials as they were being discarded in the plastic bags.

If LE's Luminol or BlueStar glowed on the ceilings, which I fully expect, that will solve the dilemma of where the murder occurred and how it was accomplished.

The prospect of PF's first blow failing to knock Kelsey out doesn't seem beyond the realm of possibility, in which case she might have run (or crawled) into another room where he finished the job. MOO

.......................................Subject Change...............................................................................................................
Now I realize we could have the first case ever of a hired hitman killing a young mother and hanging around to scrub down the crime scene and eat cinnamon rolls but I'm placing my bet right here on that not happening.
If it did I'll post a picture of me eating my hat.
I don't even own a hat but I'll buy one.

 

[MyBelle]

My friend was struck in the face, with a five foot length of wood. One investigator told a mutual friend that if he was ever called to another scene like that again, he would quit the force. The best cleaners employed by the state of Colorado have tried to get rid of the stains, and it's still obvious all over the room fifty years later. That is my only experience with medium velocity blood splatter from a direct hit in the face. This one just seems so different somehow, like almost surreal. JMO

I'm so sorry about your friend. Surreal is a good descriptive of this case so far.

KK said blood was all over KB's house is what I find surreal...and bizarre because she said the crime scene was the back office/bedroom. Yet she started her "clean up" in the living room and went room to room: a tooth, tinfoil from the cinnamon rolls, precious toys of the baby, a blood-spattered Bible. All very personal belongings of KB, a beautiful young woman with a beautiful smile who dared to have a baby with PF whom KK described to Slater as:

4:08 p.m.
Defense asking about Kenney’s view of Frazee. Slater says Frazee was Krystal’s first love & that she still loved him. This was taken from interviews with her.

JMO

 

[susiQ]

For me the fact that KK had to pick up baby K's toys covered in blood, tells me the murder took place in the living room. At least that's were the majority of my grandkids toys are. She also disposed of curtains and pillows, iirc, She used the bathroom as a clean up station. I imagine once she turned the water onto the items needing to be washed the blood splashed all over the place. CB mentioned the bath mat was missing from the bathroom. Likely soiled by PF's bloody footprints when he went there to clean KB's blood off himself before leaving. Doesn't surprise me one bit that KB's blood was all over the place in there even though she was murdered in the living room.

One more thing. I doubt one could swing a baseball bat in the bathroom of that condo. It is likely not much larger than a closet. JMO

ETA: Didn't PF put baby K in the "office" while he murdered KB? Maybe I'm getting confused

 

[MyBelle]

I’ve already said that I don’t believe for a second that she left blood so law enforcement could solve this.

Had she done that, she wouldn’t have lied to the FBI when they did link her to PF, and this crime.

I absolutely agree. She told Slater she deliberately left on her cell phone during the trip back to Idaho yet when LE first spoke with her, she refused to turn it over.

 

[Dave F.]

Ok, so if you don’t buy the baseball bat story, how do you think blood got under the floorboards, on the fireplace, and wherever else it was found?

In the hearing on February 19, 2019, Investigator Slater described the bathrrom being sprayed with BlueStar and the rest of the condo with Luminol. Both of these products react to a variety of common substances. A "presumptive positive" is an indicator that the sample should be removed, bagged and tagged for evidence and taken to the CBI forensic lab in Denver for further identification. Essentially, "presumptive Positive" means that it COULD be blood. In the tagging process, the normal procedure is to photograph the area to assure it's exact location later on, and to record any spatter patterns or other phenomena that may be present. The return of SW 18-106 indicates that this was done in the bathroom and kitchen areas, but the only sample noted as "possible blood" was the toilet smear that Slater described as being DNA tested, with a resulting probable match to KB's blood.
There was obviously a second search, conducted after December 21, 2018 which we have not seen. KK would presumably have given input into that mission.
The long and short of it is.......I don't know what was there until I see more evidence. Both lab results and the return from that third search warrant of KB's condo would seem to have great potential for clearing the questions IMO

https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...ofinterest/2018CR330/002/18-106 Execution.pdf

 

[MyBelle]

For me the fact that KK had to pick up baby K's toys covered in blood, tells me the murder took place in the living room. At least that's were the majority of my grandkids toys are. She also disposed of curtains and pillows, iirc, She used the bathroom as a clean up station. I imagine once she turned the water onto the items needing to be washed the blood splashed all over the place. CB mentioned the bath mat was missing from the bathroom. Likely soiled by PF's bloody footprints when he went there to clean KB's blood off himself before leaving. Doesn't surprise me one bit that KB's blood was all over the place in there even though she was murdered in the living room.

One more thing. I doubt one could swing a baseball bat in the bathroom of that condo. It is likely not much larger than a closet. JMO

Why do you believe the murder was in the living room? KK told Agent Slater that PF told her it took place in the back office/bedroom. I don't believe a ball bat was the murder weapon.

JMO