CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #56 *ARREST*

[Dave F.]

They couldn’t know what the lab results said at that point. Swabs were taken of cleaning solutions and a Swiffer, and they came back positive presumptive for blood.

If lab results confirm that blood to be Kelsey’s, then they are in huge trouble.

Not only that, but electronic items were seized, to include a laptop, phone, and tablet.

There’s plenty of stuff there that could prove problematic, and I can’t imagine that the defense would just take PF’s word for it that nothing incriminating was found.

If there was an objection to be made, I’m sure they would have made it. But like I said, that Facebook post took up a few lines of a 30 page document that outlined dozens of reasons justifying that search.

Nothingburger.

Wouldn't LE have to get a search warrant to serve on T-mobile before they could get damaging evidence from that phone? Just asking.

 

[MassGuy]

Wouldn't LE have to get a search warrant to serve on T-mobile before they could get damaging evidence from that phone? Just asking.

Probably. But we’ve only seen some of the warrants.

I think there was something like 30 total.

 

[Bluepopsicle]

Wouldn't LE have to get a search warrant to serve on T-mobile before they could get damaging evidence from that phone? Just asking.

Do you think PF is innocent? Just asking.

 

[PommyMommy]

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
The main premise is to decide on any outstanding motions before the trial. Both sides have the opportunity to reach a plea deal & avoid the trial, but I don't see that happening. #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee
(In response to a request to explain what is supposed to happen at the Oct 18 pre-trial hearing.)
2:59 PM - 1 Oct 2019

(Sam's response to a question about what is supposed to happen at the Oct 18 pre-trial hearing.)

 

[Dave F.]

I'm convinced that even if KK's minor children took the stand and testified that mommy made them breakfast and tied their shoes on Thanksgiving morning -- some will be insist that KK was in Woodland Park that day. (Never mind KK's dad, ex, and Michelle are cited in the docs).

I have no idea why the evidence doesn't speak for itself...

MOO

There is no reference to any of these individuals which, on it’s face, bears out a claim that KKL was in Idaho on November 22, 2018:

1. Ex husband CL did NOT verify KKL’s whereabouts on Thanksgiving day:
“After L** was interviewed on the phone around December 14, 2018 by FBI agents, C*** stated that she was very nervous when she talked to him about the phone call, and finally told C*** she had gone to Colorado to see a horse she and P***** owned together around Thanksgiving.”
Arrest Warrant Application, Attachment A, Page 6, Item 47 – Interview of C*** L**, K****** L88’s Ex-husband.
Colorado Judicial Branch - Teller - Cases of Interest - The People of the State of Colorado v. Patrick Frazee

2. Friend M.S. did NOT verify KKL’s whereabouts on Thanksgiving Day. If she said something about it, that has not been reported:
(LE did not report discussing Thanksgiving Day with MS)
Arrest Warrant Application, Attachment A, Page 7, Items 58 and 59 47 – Interview of M****** S**** in Twin Falls Idaho
Colorado Judicial Branch - Teller - Cases of Interest - The People of the State of Colorado v. Patrick Frazee

3. KK’s Dad did NOT confirm KKL’s whereabouts on Thanksgiving Day. Defense Attorney Adam Steigerwald mentioned that KKL’s Dad didn’t seem to notice anything different about about her on Thanksgiving day. It wasn’t a question, and no response from Investigator Gregg Slater was noted.
We haven’t got any indication what Steigerwald was talking about, and we don’t know whether “Dad” meant the ex-husband of KKL’s mother, the current husband of KKL’s mother, or some other person with which KKL has a father-daughter type of relationship, and we have no idea what state he saw her in.

3:44 pm
"Defense asking is Slater was involved in discussion with C**** L**, K******’s ex-husband. The defense says L** didn’t know much about F*****. Same goes for K*******’s Dad, who didn’t notice anything different of Thanksgiving Day when he was with K******. "
Sam Kraemer Courtroom Tweets, February 19, 2019
Live blog: Patrick Frazee appears in court for preliminary hearing

 

[Tippy Lynn]

There is no reference to any of these individuals which, on it’s face, bears out a claim that KKL was in Idaho on November 22, 2018:

1. Ex husband CL did NOT verify KKL’s whereabouts on Thanksgiving day:
“After L** was interviewed on the phone around December 14, 2018 by FBI agents, C*** stated that she was very nervous when she talked to him about the phone call, and finally told C*** she had gone to Colorado to see a horse she and P***** owned together around Thanksgiving.”
Arrest Warrant Application, Attachment A, Page 6, Item 47 – Interview of C*** L**, K****** L88’s Ex-husband.
Colorado Judicial Branch - Teller - Cases of Interest - The People of the State of Colorado v. Patrick Frazee

2. Friend M.S. did NOT verify KKL’s whereabouts on Thanksgiving Day. If she said something about it, that has not been reported:
(LE did not report discussing Thanksgiving Day with MS)
Arrest Warrant Application, Attachment A, Page 7, Items 58 and 59 47 – Interview of M****** S**** in Twin Falls Idaho
Colorado Judicial Branch - Teller - Cases of Interest - The People of the State of Colorado v. Patrick Frazee

3. KK’s Dad did NOT confirm KKL’s whereabouts on Thanksgiving Day. Defense Attorney Adam Steigerwald mentioned that KKL’s Dad didn’t seem to notice anything different about about her on Thanksgiving day. It wasn’t a question, and no response from Investigator Gregg Slater was noted.
We haven’t got any indication what Steigerwald was talking about, and we don’t know whether “Dad” meant the ex-husband of KKL’s mother, the current husband of KKL’s mother, or some other person with which KKL has a father-daughter type of relationship, and we have no idea what state he saw her in.

3:44 pm
"Defense asking is Slater was involved in discussion with C**** L**, K******’s ex-husband. The defense says L** didn’t know much about F*****. Same goes for K*******’s Dad, who didn’t notice anything different of Thanksgiving Day when he was with K******. "
Sam Kraemer Courtroom Tweets, February 19, 2019
Live blog: Patrick Frazee appears in court for preliminary hearing

I think this is where the cell phone data is going to play a crucial role at the trial.

Phone records show KB’s phone and PF’s phone were together the entire day on Nov 22. Records show both phones move west, go off the grid, come back on at a later time. The phones are shown heading toward Cripple Creek. They go dark once again.

4:37 pm Nov. 22, PF called an Idaho number. Slater says PF’s phone pinged off a tower in Divide, CO, when he made that call. Shortly after, PF received a return call from that number and his phone pinged in vicinity of KB’s home, it hit off a tower, southwest of KB’s townhome. Reporter Sam Kraemer, who was present at the hearing, understood Slater's testimony to mean that KK was in Idaho on November 22, the day KB was murdered. Sam (Kraemer Retweeted **********KK was in Idaho on Thanksgiving, swapped cars with her best friend the next day & drove to CO.

 

[Dave F.]

I think this is where the cell phone data is going to play a crucial role at the trial.

Phone records show KB’s phone and PF’s phone were together the entire day on Nov 22. Records show both phones move west, go off the grid, come back on at a later time. The phones are shown heading toward Cripple Creek. They go dark once again.

4:37 pm Nov. 22, PF called an Idaho number. Slater says PF’s phone pinged off a tower in Divide, CO, when he made that call. Shortly after, PF received a return call from that number and his phone pinged in vicinity of KB’s home, it hit off a tower, southwest of KB’s townhome. Reporter Sam Kraemer, who was present at the hearing, understood Slater's testimony to mean that KK was in Idaho on November 22, the day KB was murdered. Sam (Kraemer Retweeted **********KK was in Idaho on Thanksgiving, swapped cars with her best friend the next day & drove to CO.

"Reporter Sam Kraemer, who was present at the hearing, understood Slater's testimony to mean that KK was in Idaho on November 22, the day KB was murdered. Sam (Kraemer Retweeted **********KK was in Idaho on Thanksgiving, swapped cars with her best friend the next day & drove to CO."

I believe you are citing Sam's courtroom Tweet on 2/19/2019 which is Slater repeating facts as given by KKL in her statement(s). TGhe exact citation is:
1:52 pm
"Slater says Kenney exchanged her car with her friend M****(unsure of spelling) on Nov. 23. It's a Volkswagen Passat with expired plates. She left around 6:30 pm that day, arriving around 7:30 am on Nov. 24."

The information could not possibly come from the owner of the Volkswagen, as she stated that she exchanged vehicles at the WalMart Supercenter parking lot in Jerome, Idaho at approximately 3:30 pm. Since that statement, MG voluntarily called the FBI to arrange to make a revised statement, to include her concerns about the missing bullet from her pistol.

Not the greatest witness to have as the only person backing an alibi IMO

Live blog: Patrick Frazee appears in court for preliminary hearing

 

[MassGuy]

"Reporter Sam Kraemer, who was present at the hearing, understood Slater's testimony to mean that KK was in Idaho on November 22, the day KB was murdered. Sam (Kraemer Retweeted **********KK was in Idaho on Thanksgiving, swapped cars with her best friend the next day & drove to CO."

I believe you are citing Sam's courtroom Tweet on 2/19/2019 which is Slater repeating facts as given by KKL in her statement(s). TGhe exact citation is:
1:52 pm
"Slater says Kenney exchanged her car with her friend M****(unsure of spelling) on Nov. 23. It's a Volkswagen Passat with expired plates. She left around 6:30 pm that day, arriving around 7:30 am on Nov. 24."

The information could not possibly come from the owner of the Volkswagen, as she stated that she exchanged vehicles at the WalMart Supercenter parking lot in Jerome, Idaho at approximately 3:30 pm. Since that statement, MG voluntarily called the FBI to arrange to make a revised statement, to include her concerns about the missing bullet from her pistol.

Not the greatest witness to have as the only person backing an alibi IMO

Live blog: Patrick Frazee appears in court for preliminary hearing

Who said she’s the only alibi witness?

Regardless, she came forward to reveal the information about the missing bullet. It doesn’t seem to make sense that she’d cover her in that regard, but commit a crime by lying as to when this exchange occurred.

Besides that, KK’s phone would almost certainly reveal where she was. Of extreme importance, is where she was when PF called her after leaving Kelsey’s house on Thanksgiving.

This won’t be hard to verify, and it’s absolutely something the FBI and CBI would have done.

After all, they knew she was at Kelsey’s house on the 24th, when she claimed she was really at PF’s.

That’s why I’m convinced that the defense is going to have to somehow shift the timeline to the 24th.

They’ll have to explain away PF’s lie about when he last saw Kelsey, and why he had her phone.

They’ll also have to explain away any evidence found at his house, and at that barn.

Whatever their approach, it’s going to be hugely problematic. I can’t figure out how they can do it, and make it any way plausible.

 

[Dave F.]

Who said she’s the only alibi witness?

Regardless, she came forward to reveal the information about the missing bullet. It doesn’t seem to make sense that she’d cover her in that regard, but commit a crime by lying as to when this exchange occurred.

Besides that, KK’s phone would almost certainly reveal where she was. Of extreme importance, is where she was when PF called her after leaving Kelsey’s house on Thanksgiving.

This won’t be hard to verify, and it’s absolutely something the FBI and CBI would have done.

After all, they knew she was at Kelsey’s house on the 24th, when she claimed she was really at PF’s.

That’s why I’m convinced that the defense is going to have to somehow shift the timeline to the 24th.

They’ll have to explain away PF’s lie about when he last saw Kelsey, and why he had her phone.

They’ll also have to explain away any evidence found at his house, and at that barn.

Whatever their approach, it’s going to be hugely problematic. I can’t figure out how they can do it, and make it any way plausible.

Excellent points that you make, for sure. The defense does not have to prove that KK is guilty, nor do they have to prove PF is innocent. Steigerwald's sole job is to convince the jury that he cannot be found guilty as charged, beyond a shadow of doubt.
I am not a lawyer, but I'd like to paraphrase that noted expert on almost everything, Randall Darius Jackson when I say that AS just needs to get one juror to say:
"I'm sorry, dawg, but it just didn't cut it for me. Better luck next time."
IANAL, IMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Excellent points that you make, for sure. The defense does not have to prove that KK is guilty, nor do they have to prove PF is innocent. Steigerwald's sole job is to convince the jury that he cannot be found guilty as charged, beyond a shadow of doubt.
I am not a lawyer, but I'd like to paraphrase that noted expert on almost everything, Randall Darius Jackson when I say that AS just needs to get one juror to say:
"I'm sorry, dawg, but it just didn't cut it for me. Better luck next time."
IANAL, IMO

Nope.
It’s beyond a reasonable doubt. Not beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Big difference.

 

[MassGuy]

Nope.
It’s beyond a reasonable doubt. Not beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Big difference.

Ha! Good catch.

If it was beyond a shadow of a doubt, there would have to be video evidence of every murder.

And even that might not be enough for some people.

 

[Dave F.]

Nope.
It’s beyond a reasonable doubt. Not beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Big difference.

You are right, I stand corrected. Steigerwald's sole job is to convince the jury that he cannot be found guilty as charged, beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[pcrum12]

I think that there's a lot of reasonable doubt here based on what we know. Poking holes in the prosecution case gets a lot of snide remarks on here. I typically try to do just that and not just go with the prosecutions case. Not because I'm pro-defense, I'm not. I like "playing" the defense. I sure hope they (prosecution) have all this other evidence we have yet to see. He is guilty as sin. I'd hate to see him somehow get acquitted. As we all know, there's jurors out there that just can't put all the circumstantial evidence together.

 

[PommyMommy]

I think that there's a lot of reasonable doubt here based on what we know. Poking holes in the prosecution case gets a lot of snide remarks on here. I typically try to do just that and not just go with the prosecutions case. Not because I'm pro-defense, I'm not. I like "playing" the defense. I sure hope they (prosecution) have all this other evidence we have yet to see. He is guilty as sin. I'd hate to see him somehow get acquitted. As we all know, there's jurors out there that just can't put all the circumstantial evidence together.

I don't think anyone minds poking holes in the prosecution's case. It's only when the facts are twisted or theories are presented with no basis in fact that posters take issue. ie: Baby K was left in the truck for two hours, KK planted blood all over the townhome, KK hired a hitman... There is no evidence of any of those things.

Many here appreciate Websleuths because unlike Facebook or other platforms, it is fact-based and victim-friendly. It derails the thread and creates more work for the mods when posters don't follow the rules. MOO

#JusticeforKelsey

 

[PommyMommy]

DEC 21, 2018, updated SEP 30, 2019 - Timeline Article

Kelsey Berreth case: A timeline of events
Sept. 17: Frazee's defense misses deadline to name alternate suspect in Berreth's death
The attorneys representing Frazee did not file a motion naming an alternate suspect in the death of Berreth, according to the spokesperson for Colorado Courts. The defense had until 11:59 p.m. on Monday to do so.

Aug. 30: Judge rules jury can hear statements Frazee made to social worker after arrest
The social worker was going to make a recommendation to the court about who should take care of Frazee and Berreth's daughter.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I think that there's a lot of reasonable doubt here based on what we know. Poking holes in the prosecution case gets a lot of snide remarks on here. I typically try to do just that and not just go with the prosecutions case. Not because I'm pro-defense, I'm not. I like "playing" the defense. I sure hope they (prosecution) have all this other evidence we have yet to see. He is guilty as sin. I'd hate to see him somehow get acquitted. As we all know, there's jurors out there that just can't put all the circumstantial evidence together.

I like and appreciate your line of thinking with not just going with the prosecutions case. I try to see cases in that way as well. With this case I just can't seem to find holes to poke.
jmo

 

[Hatfield]

I like and appreciate your line of thinking with not just going with the prosecutions case. I try to see cases in that way as well. With this case I just can't seem to find holes to poke.
jmo

I also try to put both hats on to look at what types of things the Defense is going to be able to use at the trial that will give the Prosecution some trouble. For me, I am pretty convinced the Prosecution will be ultimately successful in prosecuting PF, but I do think some of us are under-estimating the difficulties that the Prosecution will have with KK and her "stories" and the Jury's acceptance of her stories....eh "testimony". LOL

Juries usually do an outstanding job of not being Bias going into a case and they honestly try to look at the evidence presented from both sides. So even though some of us feel this should be a slam dunk to convict PF, I suspect that the jury will have major issues with KK and her testimony. It will all depend on how well the Defense can demonstrate she is a liar, liar, pants on fire type of person. If they can do that I would not be surprised if the jury elects to throw out ALL her testimony and totally ignore it.

 

[1mtroyal]

I also try to put both hats on to look at what types of things the Defense is going to be able to use at the trial that will give the Prosecution some trouble. For me, I am pretty convinced the Prosecution will be ultimately successful in prosecuting PF, but I do think some of us are under-estimating the difficulties that the Prosecution will have with KK and her "stories" and the Jury's acceptance of her stories....eh "testimony". LOL

Juries usually do an outstanding job of not being Bias going into a case and they honestly try to look at the evidence presented from both sides. So even though some of us feel this should be a slam dunk to convict PF, I suspect that the jury will have major issues with KK and her testimony. It will all depend on how well the Defense can demonstrate she is a liar, liar, pants on fire type of person. If they can do that I would not be surprised if the jury elects to throw out ALL her testimony and totally ignore it.

KK did tell a friend that PF asked her to kill someone. I think the jury will 100% believe that.

 

[katydid23]

I also try to put both hats on to look at what types of things the Defense is going to be able to use at the trial that will give the Prosecution some trouble. For me, I am pretty convinced the Prosecution will be ultimately successful in prosecuting PF, but I do think some of us are under-estimating the difficulties that the Prosecution will have with KK and her "stories" and the Jury's acceptance of her stories....eh "testimony". LOL

Juries usually do an outstanding job of not being Bias going into a case and they honestly try to look at the evidence presented from both sides. So even though some of us feel this should be a slam dunk to convict PF, I suspect that the jury will have major issues with KK and her testimony. It will all depend on how well the Defense can demonstrate she is a liar, liar, pants on fire type of person. If they can do that I would not be surprised if the jury elects to throw out ALL her testimony and totally ignore it.

It would be hard for them to throw out ALL of her testimony because the actual evidence supports some of her most important statements.

For example, LE discovered her identity by looking at all of the communication between her cell and PF's cell. And they also tracked KB's cell and saw that it traveled up to Idaho, same time that KK traveled there too.

So when the jury sees that she took the victim's cell on that road trip, and sent some of the texts from the victim's phone, then it becomes clear that she was involved in the crime to some degree.

That makes it hard to throw out ALL of her testimony because she is in fact a player in the case.

I can't assume she is lying about everything, when there is evidence to support much of what she has said. And much of what she has said is very detrimental to her. JMO

 

[MassGuy]

I don't think anyone minds poking holes in the prosecution's case. It's only when the facts are twisted or theories are presented with no basis in fact that posters take issue. ie: Baby K was left in the truck for two hours, KK planted blood all over the townhome, KK hired a hitman... There is no evidence of any of those things.

Many here appreciate Websleuths because unlike Facebook or other platforms, it is fact-based and victim-friendly. It derails the thread and creates more work for the mods when posters don't follow the rules. MOO

#JusticeforKelsey

Exactly. I’m dying for someone to make a case for the defense, because I want to have an idea of what the defense’s approach will be.

In order for that to happen, this evidence needs to be addressed, not ignored completely.

Or worse, just pulled out of thin air.