Father says DNA could solve one of country’s biggest murder mysteries: Who killed JonBenét Ramsey

[Slebby]

Who has never committed another crime since 1996?

We are pretty sure no R has murdered any other Rs since 1996, is that what you mean?

 

[CloudedTruth]

If you believe RDI, that could also be true for them. There has not been a repeat of this type of murder/crime since 1996. Same for IDI. Same for RDI.

In the case of the mystery intruder who many (including the Ramseys) think was a pedophile, statistics show it's never a one time only crime. The DNA of UM1 has been in CODIS for years now. No hits. Nothing.

I do believe RDI but I also believe it was unintended.

 

[AddieBoo]

We are pretty sure no R has murdered any other Rs since 1996, is that what you mean?

Well…there has been no arrests in the Ramsey family so far, for any kind of domestic violence. Nor have any of the Ramsey’s, been accused,arrested, been associated with any “peculiar people” who have a nefarious appetite for crimes against children.
Although during an episode of “Leeza” the editor of “The Globe” who was a guest, spoke about a John Ramsey sighting at a shop in Atlanta, 2 weeks after JonBenets death by three people.
Not peculiar to seek out fraternity, reading materials, etc. But 2 weeks. And after that CNN interview? Or maybe someone had information for him.
Who knows.
Years ago, years ago, I distinctly remember one of the tabloids reporting something about sorority sisters had information…
Cannot find that issue anywhere.
But perhaps there was smoke:

In the case of the mystery intruder who many (including the Ramseys) think was a pedophile, statistics show it's never a one time only crime. The DNA of UM1 has been in CODIS for years now. No hits. Nothing.

I do believe RDI but I also believe it was unintended.

I don’t know if it was intended or not.
Her SA was intended….
I don’t know….
It was Christmas, after a party. Very late. Usually drinking going on…
Always a catalyst for loss of control….
Don’t know…

The CODIS “no hits” is of paramount importance IMO.

As of pedophile reoccurrence the light could be turned around from intruder to Ramsey household.
Any personal peculiarities would seem to be contained in the face of criminal prosecution.
Three people spotted JR at a shop in Atlanta 2 weeks after the murder - if you believe the editor of “The Globe” who stated that on national television. Don’t think he got sued for that statement either. One tabloid did and had to issue apology.. maybe about Burke. The tabloids are brutal in their pursuit.

Visiting a shop 2 weeks after your daughter is SA and brutally murdered…? Cmon…
Though maybe he was getting valuable information about the crime….

 

[Ponytale]

With the money and power that John and his attorneys had (have?), I'd think that even if there was anything else in those 28 years, would it even be known to public...

 

[FMB]

Well…there has been no arrests in the Ramsey family so far, for any kind of domestic violence. Nor have any of the Ramsey’s, been accused,arrested, been associated with any “peculiar people” who have a nefarious appetite for crimes against children.
Although during an episode of “Leeza” the editor of “The Globe” who was a guest, spoke about a John Ramsey sighting at a *advertiser censored* shop in Atlanta, 2 weeks after JonBenets death by three people.
Not peculiar to seek out fraternity, reading materials, etc. But 2 weeks. And after that CNN interview? Or maybe someone had information for him.
Who knows.
Years ago, years ago, I distinctly remember one of the tabloids reporting something about sorority sisters had information…
Cannot find that issue anywhere.
But perhaps there was smoke:

I don’t know if it was intended or not.
Her SA was intended….
I don’t know….
It was Christmas, after a party. Very late. Usually drinking going on…
Always a catalyst for loss of control….
Don’t know…

The CODIS “no hits” is of paramount importance IMO.

The CODIS " no hits"
I don't believe there ever will be a "hit" . Even if they ever had a hit what kind of case would a prosecutor have in light of there being no other physical evidence to link this person to the crime scene??. There is no evidence of an intruder...none. Defense would argue that DNA evidence was tainted or was a composite etc....
The alleged Perp has had 28 years to invent an alibi for that night.....he was with family and friends on Christmas...
and they all said so.....

As of pedophile reoccurrence the light could be turned around from intruder to Ramsey household.
Any personal peculiarities would seem to be contained in the face of criminal prosecution.
Three people spotted JR at a *advertiser censored* shop in Atlanta 2 weeks after the murder - if you believe the editor of “The Globe” who stated that on national television. Don’t think he got sued for that statement either. One tabloid did and had to issue apology.. maybe about Burke. The tabloids are brutal in their pursuit.

Visiting a *advertiser censored* shop 2 weeks after your daughter is SA and brutally murdered…? Cmon…
Though maybe he was getting valuable information about the crime….

 

[AddieBoo]

With the money and power that John and his attorneys had (have?), I'd think that even if there was anything else in those 28 years, would it even be known to public...

Yeh- high profile cases such as Epstein or Weinstein continued for decades before the public knew anything because they were powerful, wealthy and were surrounded by like minded parasites. Any religious organizations?

 

[CloudedTruth]

Yeh- high profile cases such as Epstein or Weinstein continued for decades before the public knew anything because they were powerful, wealthy and were surrounded by like minded parasites. Any religious organizations?

Religious organizations. Now there's a can of worms that really needs a much deeper dive. It deserves its own thread but it's something that doesn't get much discussion, so I'm not sure there's a lot of verifiable information out there.

 

[Slebby]

Is there a suggestion of a religious organization giving cover for the killer or having involvement in this case? That seems like an allegation out of nowhere, imo.

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

One thing that often stuck out to me about the letter is how immature the writer sounds.

• “Small foreign faction” - I bet that is how the elves who work for Santa describe themselves, very unitimidating
• Your writing a ransom letter - not the Iliad - more than one page is just too much, get straight to the point, you want money and the Ramsey want their daughter back, you don’t even have to introduce yourselves
• “listen carefully” - this is a letter, not a conversation, we aren’t talking
• leaving a letter at all when the child is not yet fully removed from the house and thereby risking alerting the family that she is in danger and the chances of hindering the kidnapper’s escape and having him neutralized
• not waiting to contact the parents until both child and kidnapper are at an undisclosed location with untraceable phone or device
• giving the time of the drop off and how JB will be returned to them (via a cashier) in the letter instead of drawing it out so that you can confirm police were not contacted, test the parents’ complacency and make the parents even more fearful and desperate, and thereby more complacent, by proving to the father and mother you do indeed have their daughter by either letting her talk to them directly or overhear her in the background
• Expecting the bank not to grow suspicious or alert LE after having JR take out such a large amount
• Demand JR put large amount of cash in paper bags as though he is packing an order of deli sandwiches as though these bags can’t rip or cash inside won’t be obvious or suspicious to any onlookers
• Also how many paper bags or trips back and forth to the car did these kidnappers expect JR to make take or were they willing to take themselves
• Why not cut the phone lines so they can’t call 911 instead of ordering them not to
• Warning that two gentlemen are watching outside the house - hostage takers are further sabotaging themselves since the purpose of lookouts is supposed to both keep watch, pass intel and remain off LE radar, now they have to run to before they get caught
• Never writes Jon Bennet’s name

All this to say that it almost does seem like a kid, a teenager or some amateur who has watched too many spy movies wrote or directed the format of this letter. The letter is so long and ridiculous it is almost hard to imagine that PR and JR wrote the letter after their beloved daughter JBR just died/was assaulted and murdered and staging the scene of the crime together? Shouldn’t they have been to frantic, overcome with grief or disbelief to really write or format anything cohesive, let alone for 2-pages? If anything, I think would imagine their letter should have been much shorter considering they possibly couldn’t hold even hold it together long enough to keep adding more details?

Though I do agree that details regarding the letter, like including the bonus amount and the kidnapper using paper found inside the house to write it is confounding or suspicious I couldn’t help but wonder what type of person, whether JBR’s parents or not, or what type of mentality does a person have to have to write a letter like that? Considering the length and wording of it I also wonder far in advance did they think of writing it, was it practically scripted or memorized in the person’s head and what, if anything can this show about the preparation and premeditation of this horrific life that resulted in JonBenet Ramsey’s vicious sexual and physical assault and murder?

Also, another thing that bothers me is that whoever is responsible for JonBenet Ramsey’s assault and murder or possible coverup had their words somewhat memorialized by this letter where JBR was forever silenced by her killer and continues to be until they are held accountable.

Just my own thoughts/opinions

 

[CloudedTruth]

Is there a suggestion of a religious organization giving cover for the killer or having involvement in this case? That seems like an allegation out of nowhere, imo.

It has to do with the Ramseys church and some rumored unsavory goings on which involved someone whom Patsy described as the church sexton / caretaker. He lived on the church property.

 

[touch]

• Demand JR put large amount of cash in paper bags as though he is packing an order of deli sandwiches as though these bags can’t rip or cash inside won’t be obvious or suspicious to any onlookers
• Also how many paper bags or trips back and forth to the car did these kidnappers expect JR to make take or were they willing to take themselves

It's actually not that much cash to carry.
$100,000 in $100 bills is 1000.
Here is what a stack of 1000 looks like (but these are $1 bills, not $100 bills):

The remaining $18000 in $20 bills is 900 so it would be roughly 2 of the stacks in that image. Probably could fit it into a deli sandwich bag.

 

[AddieBoo]

It has to do with the Ramseys church and some rumored unsavory goings on which involved someone whom Patsy described as the church sexton / caretaker. He lived on the church property.

I just watched what was presumably the final interview from Patsy Ramsey with John at some sort of religious event.
First of all it’s heartbreaking on a very base human level. She is very frail looking to me, very thin but perfectly coiffed…
The entire interview is based around their religious beliefs and its tenants of forgiveness etc,
Patsy does Christian word salad expertly. “Out there” best describes to me. John is more thoughtful. Then the final question and both of them are lost. Just frickin lost. IMO
Have you seen it?

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[AddieBoo]

Yeh- high profile cases such as Epstein or Weinstein continued for decades before the public knew anything because they were powerful, wealthy and were surrounded by like minded parasites. Any religious organizations?

Speaking of DNA. John carried JB up the stairs etc. where’s his DNA?

 

[CloudedTruth]

I just watched what was presumably the final interview from Patsy Ramsey with John at some sort of religious event.
First of all it’s heartbreaking on a very base human level. She is very frail looking to me, very thin but perfectly coiffed…
The entire interview is based around their religious beliefs and its tenants of forgiveness etc,
Patsy does Christian word salad expertly. “Out there” best describes to me. John is more thoughtful. Then the final question and both of them are lost. Just frickin lost. IMO
Have you seen it?

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Yes, I just watched it yesterday. She died 2 months later. Her face seemed very puffy (steroids maybe?) and her left eye looked funny. She was clearly not well, but not incoherent as John described her as to why he ordered her treatments to be stopped.

Someone posted something on another forum that I thought was quite relevant, which had to do with how the different denominations within the Christian faith look at forgiveness. The Ramseys ascribed to the idea that God knows all your sins and that forgiveness is an automatic if you are a believer in Jesus Christ. Whereas Catholics for example, believe that one must confess sins in order to be forgiven. I was struck at the reactions both John & Patsy had when interviewed together with Steve Thomas on the Larry King show. Patsy was discussing sins and forgiveness as she was in this interview, when Thomas interjected that the Bible says that without confession there is no forgiveness. John bristles and denies the Bible says that (it does), and Patsy looks down and is biting her lip like she’s fighting to control herself. It was an interesting moment.

When asked by police right after the murder what JAR feels should happen to the murderer, he replied “forgiveness”. It’s a common thing we have heard from them almost since day 1. And yet they had / have so much anger for the police and everyone who has dared to doubt their innocence over the years. It feels very much like the forgiveness they so frequently refer to is for themselves. I’m guessing, and this is just my opinion of course, it’s how they’ve gotten / get through the aftermath, believing they’ve been forgiven.

 

[AddieBoo]

Yes, I just watched it yesterday. She died 2 months later. Her face seemed very puffy (steroids maybe?) and her left eye looked funny. She was clearly not well, but not incoherent as John described her as to why he ordered her treatments to be stopped.

Someone posted something on another forum that I thought was quite relevant, which had to do with how the different denominations within the Christian faith look at forgiveness. The Ramseys ascribed to the idea that God knows all your sins and that forgiveness is an automatic if you are a believer in Jesus Christ. Whereas Catholics for example, believe that one must confess sins in order to be forgiven. I was struck at the reactions both John & Patsy had when interviewed together with Steve Thomas on the Larry King show. Patsy was discussing sins and forgiveness as she was in this interview, when Thomas interjected that the Bible says that without confession there is no forgiveness. John bristles and denies the Bible says that (it does), and Patsy looks down and is biting her lip like she’s fighting to control herself. It was an interesting moment.

When asked by police right after the murder what JAR feels should happen to the murderer, he replied “forgiveness”. It’s a common thing we have heard from them almost since day 1. And yet they had / have so much anger for the police and everyone who has dared to doubt their innocence over the years. It feels very much like the forgiveness they so frequently refer to is for themselves. I’m guessing, and this is just my opinion of course, it’s how they’ve gotten / get through the aftermath, believing they’ve been forgiven.

Yes, and that is their public message.
Patsy did the whole Lazarus bit when JB was brought over to the Christmas tree. But wasn’t her minister there at that point? Showtime from the very beginning to the very end.
My good friend died of same cancer 2007. It was horrible what she went through. When you get to hospice it’s pretty much all hard core drugs. I don’t know about continuing treatment for that cancer and this was PR 2nd time around. So she suffered terribly, if her cancer was anything like my friends. Hospice was a blessing,
I think Patsy knew what her status was. It’s just macabre to think her husband keeping her sedated to prevent her from any unwanted disclosures in the end stages of life. That’s quite a feat of management.
The whole forgiveness message with absolutely no perspective or reality.
Months ago I had a dream (this is revealing about how much this murder was permeating my subconscious-which prompted me to take a break) that Jon Benet and Beth Ramsey were together, happy playing… and Patsy was there but apart from them and she was confused, very confused.
So yeh, I took a break. Not because it was a nightmare but because that I had dreamt it.

Patsys shell seems steel. And my considerations about who did it are reversing increasingly away from BDI. But I wonder what the evidence from the Grand Jury is.

Glad you saw same interview. Am going to revisit the LK one - love Steve Thomas.

 

[lonetraveler]

Yes, I just watched it yesterday. She died 2 months later. Her face seemed very puffy (steroids maybe?) and her left eye looked funny. She was clearly not well, but not incoherent as John described her as to why he ordered her treatments to be stopped.

Someone posted something on another forum that I thought was quite relevant, which had to do with how the different denominations within the Christian faith look at forgiveness. The Ramseys ascribed to the idea that God knows all your sins and that forgiveness is an automatic if you are a believer in Jesus Christ. Whereas Catholics for example, believe that one must confess sins in order to be forgiven. I was struck at the reactions both John & Patsy had when interviewed together with Steve Thomas on the Larry King show. Patsy was discussing sins and forgiveness as she was in this interview, when Thomas interjected that the Bible says that without confession there is no forgiveness. John bristles and denies the Bible says that (it does), and Patsy looks down and is biting her lip like she’s fighting to control herself. It was an interesting moment.

When asked by police right after the murder what JAR feels should happen to the murderer, he replied “forgiveness”. It’s a common thing we have heard from them almost since day 1. And yet they had / have so much anger for the police and everyone who has dared to doubt their innocence over the years. It feels very much like the forgiveness they so frequently refer to is for themselves. I’m guessing, and this is just my opinion of course, it’s how they’ve gotten / get through the aftermath, believing they’ve been forgiven.

So telling.

 

[lonetraveler]

One thing that often stuck out to me about the letter is how immature the writer sounds.

• “Small foreign faction” - I bet that is how the elves who work for Santa describe themselves, very unitimidating
• Your writing a ransom letter - not the Iliad - more than one page is just too much, get straight to the point, you want money and the Ramsey want their daughter back, you don’t even have to introduce yourselves
• “listen carefully” - this is a letter, not a conversation, we aren’t talking
• leaving a letter at all when the child is not yet fully removed from the house and thereby risking alerting the family that she is in danger and the chances of hindering the kidnapper’s escape and having him neutralized
• not waiting to contact the parents until both child and kidnapper are at an undisclosed location with untraceable phone or device
• giving the time of the drop off and how JB will be returned to them (via a cashier) in the letter instead of drawing it out so that you can confirm police were not contacted, test the parents’ complacency and make the parents even more fearful and desperate, and thereby more complacent, by proving to the father and mother you do indeed have their daughter by either letting her talk to them directly or overhear her in the background
• Expecting the bank not to grow suspicious or alert LE after having JR take out such a large amount
• Demand JR put large amount of cash in paper bags as though he is packing an order of deli sandwiches as though these bags can’t rip or cash inside won’t be obvious or suspicious to any onlookers
• Also how many paper bags or trips back and forth to the car did these kidnappers expect JR to make take or were they willing to take themselves
• Why not cut the phone lines so they can’t call 911 instead of ordering them not to
• Warning that two gentlemen are watching outside the house - hostage takers are further sabotaging themselves since the purpose of lookouts is supposed to both keep watch, pass intel and remain off LE radar, now they have to run to before they get caught
• Never writes Jon Bennet’s name

All this to say that it almost does seem like a kid, a teenager or some amateur who has watched too many spy movies wrote or directed the format of this letter. The letter is so long and ridiculous it is almost hard to imagine that PR and JR wrote the letter after their beloved daughter JBR just died/was assaulted and murdered and staging the scene of the crime together? Shouldn’t they have been to frantic, overcome with grief or disbelief to really write or format anything cohesive, let alone for 2-pages? If anything, I think would imagine their letter should have been much shorter considering they possibly couldn’t hold even hold it together long enough to keep adding more details?

Though I do agree that details regarding the letter, like including the bonus amount and the kidnapper using paper found inside the house to write it is confounding or suspicious I couldn’t help but wonder what type of person, whether JBR’s parents or not, or what type of mentality does a person have to have to write a letter like that? Considering the length and wording of it I also wonder far in advance did they think of writing it, was it practically scripted or memorized in the person’s head and what, if anything can this show about the preparation and premeditation of this horrific life that resulted in JonBenet Ramsey’s vicious sexual and physical assault and murder?

Also, another thing that bothers me is that whoever is responsible for JonBenet Ramsey’s assault and murder or possible coverup had their words somewhat memorialized by this letter where JBR was forever silenced by her killer and continues to be until they are held accountable.

Just my own thoughts/opinions

I believe that they were so frantic at the time that they pretty much just wrote what was flying through their brains. JMO

 

[oceanverde]

Sadly, truth can not be told because Ramsey's have done everything that prevents it from happening. Just some examples that come to mind:
- GJ indictments are not made public. At least 14 pages of actual information that could possibly help solving this case.
- Burkes records (medical, school) are not made public. There is no reason for that if JB's parents were interested in getting the truth out there to help the case.
- Phone and bank records being sealed. Again IMO something that an innocent parent would not be interested in doing.

Innocent parents/family would not need them to be sealed. Knowing them would surely help in knowing the facts and clearing the misinformation.

Ramsey's did nothing to help finding the killer of their daughter, but did plenty to muddy the waters and defend themselves.

What a wild statement to make. How does Burke's medical and school records help solve the case?

It is very clear that some of you will never believe it when the case is solved and the Ramsey's had nothing to do with it.

 

[oceanverde]

Have you read the report that Dr. McCann wrote after he examined ALL the materials, or the results of his groundbreaking research in the area of identifying sexual abuse in prepubertal girls? Doesn't sound like you have.

Every child abuse expert who examined the genital findings from JonBenet's autopsy recognized physical signs of sexual abuse that predated her death. Among the experts who have been publicly identified were: Andrew Sirotnak, Richard Krugman, James Monteleone, Valorie Rao and John McCann. Dr. Sirotnak at the time was a child abuse pediatrician who headed the Child Protection Team at Children's Hospital Colorado. The coroner Dr. Meyer asked Dr. Sirotnak to consult on the case as he suspected SA from what he saw during the autopsy. Dr. Sirotnak accompanied Dr. Meyer to the morgue and personally examined JonBenet and confirmed the suspicions of Dr. Meyer.

The severe damage that was found could only have been caused by accidental penetration, impalement or SA. In the instance of the first two injuries, they would have caused significant pain and bleeding requiring medical treatment. There is no such medical history for JonBenet that either such serious injury was ever suffered.

Dr.John McCann is a noted expert in the field of child abuse and neglect, and a pioneer in developing a classification system for evaluating children for suspected sexual abuse. His conclusions in this case are undisputed.

Here's a portion of his biography and experience:

​

Recognizing that very little was known about the "normal" genital findings of the prepubertal female, he and his colleagues developed a research project aimed at answering many of those questions. In addition, they followed up with articles on the healing of genital injuries, the use of the colposcope in the evaluation of the prepubertal and adolescent girl suspected of having been sexually abused or molested and the application of the "multi-method" examination approach to the evaluation of these subjects. Dr. McCann spent the last twelve years of his medical career as the Medical Director of the Child Protection Center at University of California Davis, Medical Center. There he continued his research in the healing process of anal/genital injuries as well as chairing the American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children (APSAC) committee that developed the Practice Guidelines: Descriptive Terminology in Child Sexual Abuse Medical Evaluations. He was also instrumental in the development of the child and adolescent sexual abuse reporting forms used throughout the State of California. Dr. McCann has won numerous awards including the 2001 American Academy of Pediatrics section on child abuse and neglect award for Outstanding Service to Maltreated Children.

​

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At best what they indicated was suggestive of prior sexual abuse but there's no certainty. There are simply other possible explanations.

Even some updated research (https://cdn.icmec.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Revised-Adams-Guidelines-2023.pdf) says

Healed hymenal transection/complete hymen cleft- a defect in the hymen below the 3 to 9 o’clock location that extends to or through the base of the hymen,with no hymenal tissue discernible at that location.

Is highly suggestive of abuse not indicative.

 

[Tower]

What a wild statement to make. How does Burke's medical and school records help solve the case?

It is very clear that some of you will never believe it when the case is solved and the Ramsey's had nothing to do with it.

I am firmly not BDI and I believe demanding the release of a 9-year-old’s personal information is extreme. There are certain records law enforcement would have access to, but it is certainly not our right to know anything about a 9-year-old, even if he killed someone. He would never be a criminal or felon at that age and his records should never be released. Imo