Father says DNA could solve one of country’s biggest murder mysteries: Who killed JonBenét Ramsey

[Tower]

This is a murder investigation.

The medical and academic records must be considered. The Grand Jury subpoenaed his third grade teacher and Doug Stine. The Grand Jury had full subpoena power to investigate.
Evidence swings both ways. What was discovered could have exonerated Burke Ramsey or not for any consideration. His age prevented him from indictment/prosecution, but the courts could have made special considerations if the courts found him guilty, through juvenile court? The four indictments released for both parents cite “murder in the first degree “ So if those indictments had moved forward, it would seem probable that first degree murder charges, if successfully prosecuted in some way, would not go without punishment.
The good news is that the statute of limitations does not run out for murder. Even in Colorado.

So, the GJ looked at Burke’s history and made their recommendations. There’s no further need to release any of Burke’s records and his privacy as a 9-year-old child can be preserved. I’m glad we can all agree.

 

[AddieBoo]

More than any other topic, this one “was she” “wasn’t she” is the most difficult to read information about and what that information means about the month of December 1996 in the life of Jon Benet.
So grateful for the panel of eminent professionals in this field who stand up and speak the truth. Who have devoted their careers to this subject,

I am having difficulty accessing Dr McCanns reports… so far.

Dr Cyril Wecht wrote an entire book on her murder, renamed the murder, manslaughter, and named John Ramsey as responsible. Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey?” He has also very plainly stated numerous times publicly “the father”
Surprisingly, he didn’t get sued… but Alan Dershowitz wrote a review…
Wecht also differs in opinion about the paintbrush piece used internally on JB as well as the order of events that caused her murder.

 

[AddieBoo]

So, the GJ looked at Burke’s history and made their recommendations. There’s no further need to release any of Burke’s records and his privacy as a 9-year-old child can be preserved. I’m glad we can all agree.

The recommendations made public ….so far. There must be some relevant information there. If BR is responsible for the murder of JB, his rights of privacy are null.

 

[AddieBoo]

If anything, perhaps he continues to be under such scrutiny because none of the rumors have been effectively dispelled by facts. Again, the lack of transparency (and again, I am not referring to making records available to the press or the public) is such a significant factor in this case.

The Dr. Phil interview was an absolute train wreck and is indicative of the lack of self awareness the Ramseys have exhibited since day one. Not only did it do nothing to dispel the BDI theory, it increased the chatter of how unusual his behavior is. And likely he will never speak out publicly again, so the BDI theory will remain as will the scrutiny of Burke. That could have gone away a long time ago if it had been handled differently.

And those editors on that program tried to patch up the train wreck before airing…they tried so hard…absolutely not salvageable- but they aired it anyway???!!!!
How much did BR get paid for that? Hands down the most bizarre interview in media history. Dr Phil lost some credibility after that…

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

Your opinion IMO would not stand up in a court of law on this issue.
This is one area of the case that is not debated. It is an accepted fact that Jon Benet Ramsey was the victim of SA at least 10 days prior to her murder if not longer.

I'm slow thos morning so bare with me.

At best what they indicated was suggestive of prior sexual abuse but there's no certainty. There are simply other possible explanations.

Even some updated research (https://cdn.icmec.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Revised-Adams-Guidelines-2023.pdf) says

Healed hymenal transection/complete hymen cleft- a defect in the hymen below the 3 to 9 o’clock location that extends to or through the base of the hymen,with no hymenal tissue discernible at that location.

Is highly suggestive of abuse not indicative.

Bare with me because I'm slow this morning but I'm not sure what you mean by highly suggestive of abuse not being indicative of abuse.
If I sat on the GJ and and expert or two told me something was highly suggestive of abuse, that is not going to play well for the person under suspicion. It would not be enough to hang a conviction on but it certainly would add credence to the totality of evidence if it was leaning that way.

 

[AddieBoo]

That’s a statement of your personal values (commonly shared by many), but it’s not a statement of fact or legal necessity.

In fact, it’s not actually your job to ‘prove your innocence’ (although one may feel compelled to do so for a variety of reasons) - it’s the police/DA’s job to prove your guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

The Ramsey’s are singularly consumed with forgiveness from their God. There is nothing in their public dialogue that promotes justice for JonBenet in a court of law. They can’t even answer the question surrounding what justice would look like. It’s just religious word salad. Their faith served them well, but betrayed their daughter.
It is impossible to prosecute or exonerate anyone in this case due to the extraordinary obstacles that were at every level of discovery.
New Grand Jury and a POI coming forward with information…?
Ya never know… secrets fester…

 

[sunspun]

Your opinion IMO would not stand up in a court of law on this issue.
This is one area of the case that is not debated. It is an accepted fact that Jon Benet Ramsey was the victim of SA at least 10 days prior to her murder if not longer.

not according to her own personal doctor who has no reason to lie about it

 

[sunspun]

I think Dr. McCann's testimony on the stand in a courtroom would be extremely compelling and very difficult to dispute. His extensive research on the subject is still considered to be of such relevance as to be the basis for criteria for identifying SA in children in the entire state of California which uses reporting forms developed with his assistance and based on his research.

I think they could find as many doctors as they needed, of the same caliber as Dr McCann, who would give expert testimony refuting Dr McCann's opinion.

 

[CloudedTruth]

not according to her own personal doctor who has no reason to lie about it

Respectfully, Dr. Beuf never did the kind of exam that would’ve discovered the SA that she was subjected to. He claimed not to have seen outward signs of SA, that is in no way a definitive determination that there was no SA, it was an opinion without having done a full and complete examination. Notably, Dr. Beuf was also a personal friend of the Ramseys. And based upon his questionable medically ethical decision to supply controlled substances to Patsy Ramsey for a significant period of time after the murder when he was not her doctor, I have to question his credibility.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

I think they could find as many doctors as they needed, of the same caliber as Dr McCann, who would give expert testimony refuting Dr McCann's opinion.

The person whose opinion I'm most interested in knowing what they think is Sirotnak who is the only expert who examined the body. We don't have a direct statement or report from him, and what second-hand info we have us contradictory.

 

[cenazoic]

If that small circle is never allowed to be fully investigated and cleared, the circle is hindered in its ability to widen.

The facts are the Ramseys really haven't done much to assist in getting justice for their daughter. Does that make them guilty of murdering her? No, it doesn't. But it also doesn't do anything to promote the idea that they are innocent.

Your points are well-taken, and in general, I don’t necessarily disagree with your overall gist.

I do find it important to push back against the idea, generally speaking, that the innocent should be open books to law enforcement. There are many valid reasons why one shouldn’t talk to police without an attorney present (people tend to forget the ‘anything you say can be used against you’ bit); and who of us, in an anxiety or fear-inducing situation, could swear they wouldn’t misspeak, get details wrong, change their story, or just otherwise say something ‘stupid’?

That said, I do absolutely agree that the Ramseys seem to have done very little to advance ‘justice for JonBenet’ through the years.

not according to her own personal doctor who has no reason to lie about it

I think her doctor had several good reasons to lie (if he did): preservation of reputation/career chief among them.

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

To be fair, and in my opinion, it does appear that by advocating for the DNA to be tested using updated technology and forensic tools, petitioning the governor to let an independent testing facility to conduct the test, asking Boulder police to keep him updated and giving multiple interviews over the years with the hope that they can keep JBR’s memory and love for her alive as they wait for the day her case gets solved, that the Ramsey’s are assisting and actively advocating for justice for their daughter. Upon request they also provided DNA samples to LE and JR has shared recently how he still grieves over the loss of his beloved “little spark plug” JonBenet and that he is relentless in doing what he can to find his daughter’s killer so he can be held accountable for her horrific rape and murder and he and her other loved ones can finally get answers.


It appears too that LE may have also contributed to the tension between them and the Ramsey’s and ostracizing them from the investigation and losing the JBR’s parents confidence that they had the skills and competency to solve it the case or lead the investigation.

BPD admitted that the 1996 original investigation was botched and that evidence and the crime scene were potentially contaminated due to the investigators only securing or roping off JBR’s bedroom but not the rest of house so that people coming in and out, not looking thoroughly around the house upon arrival even though they were investigating a potential kidnapping and this led to not only JBR’s father having to go through the trauma of finding her body but also contamination of the crime scene, as heartbreaking as it is to do to a grieving mom LE was responsible for preventing PR from touching or holding JBR’s body yet nonetheless they still did not secure the child’s body and to the surprise of no one fibers from PR’s coat transferred onto to her clothes. Despite not searching a basement where a broken window was located, responding officers determined they saw no plausible signs that an intruder could have broken in nor that one would write such an odd ransom letter, let alone on the Ramseys’ own paper, leading them to focus their attention very early in the investigation on the Ramseys at the expense of not assessing other potential and plausible theories thoroughly enough. This led to tips not being further assessed or checked, DNA evidence not being disclosed for a long period of time, evidence not searched for by the basement window, evidence not being properly collected and LE resorting to antagonistic or hostile interviews with both JR and PR in hopes that either the husband or wife would break and give them confession to compensate for their poor investigation yielding no credible evidence to support LE’s allegations that JBR’s parents are responsible for her rape and murder or are covering for each other.

IMO, it seems that after enough frustration, antagonism and tension built up and years later LE still didn’t catch their daughter’s killers, the Ramseys trust and engagement with LE was completely broke down and they turned to private agencies, filmmakers, public interviews and journalists instead to help solve JBR’s murder and get justice for her while lawyering up to help deal with the tension with LE. Eventually in 2008 the District Attorney acknowledged the mistakes made during the investigation and both cleared the Ramseys as suspects in JBR’s murder and wrote them an apology letter.

JonBenét Ramsey Doc Director Responds to Boulder Police Statement: “The Family Is Owed Communication” About DNA Tests (Exclusive)

"After being so mistreated by BPD’s original investigation and the ripple effect of pain that the family has endured as a result, the Ramsey family is owed direct and specific communication,” says Joe Berlinger after the department responded to his Netflix true-crime docuseries.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

Who killed JonBenét Ramsey? Murdered girl's father believes DNA could reveal killer

A look back at how "48 Hours" covered the 1996 Christmastime murder of JonBenét Ramsey in 2002, and what her father John Ramsey says about the unsolved Colorado case nearly 28 years later.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[CloudedTruth]

This is a murder investigation.

The medical and academic records must be considered. The Grand Jury subpoenaed his third grade teacher and Doug Stine. The Grand Jury had full subpoena power to investigate.
Evidence swings both ways. What was discovered could have exonerated Burke Ramsey or not for any consideration. His age prevented him from indictment/prosecution, but the courts could have made special considerations if the courts found him guilty, through juvenile court? The four indictments released for both parents cite “murder in the first degree “ So if those indictments had moved forward, it would seem probable that first degree murder charges, if successfully prosecuted in some way, would not go without punishment.
The good news is that the statute of limitations does not run out for murder. Even in Colorado.

Absolutely those records should be considered. But as the Grand Jury documents are sealed, we do not know with any certainty what records were subpoenaed and obtained. It was rumored that the 3rd grade teacher and Doug gave testimony, and since the reference to the 3rd grade teacher is so specific, it points to the possibility that it's true.

But.....the DA does control the process and the jurors, and has almost absolute power and discretion.

 

[FMB]

Respectfully, Dr. Beuf never did the kind of exam that would’ve discovered the SA that she was subjected to. He claimed not to have seen outward signs of SA, that is in no way a definitive determination that there was no SA, it was an opinion without having done a full and complete examination. Notably, Dr. Beuf was also a personal friend of the Ramseys. And based upon his questionable medically ethical decision to supply controlled substances to Patsy Ramsey for a significant period of time after the murder when he was not her doctor, I have to question his credibility.

I believe there was some degree of negligence on the part of Dr Beuf. This little girl had frequent UTI's and Vaginitis visiting him over 30 times during a 3 year period prior to her death and he never questioned this?? Never referred Jonbenet to a specialist??

I believe Jonbenet's parents were equally negligent in never addressing the chronic bedwetting and frequent Doctor vistis. The Ramsey's when interviewed were always very dismissive of these issues. Either they knew what the real causes were or there was a high degree of neglect and or emotional disconnect.

As a parent I would be very very concerned if any of my kids at Jonebenet's age exhibited these same issues.

This simply is not normal and paints a picture of a young girl almost in crisis.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

not according to her own personal doctor who has no reason to lie about it

Did her doctor due an internal exam and if he did, was he qualified to recognise SA?
If you debate the merit of the expert called in, how much weight do we put on Dr. Beufs opinion?

 

[CloudedTruth]

I do find it important to push back against the idea, generally speaking, that the innocent should be open books to law enforcement. There are many valid reasons why one shouldn’t talk to police without an attorney present (people tend to forget the ‘anything you say can be used against you’ bit); and who of us, in an anxiety or fear-inducing situation, could swear they wouldn’t misspeak, get details wrong, change their story, or just otherwise say something ‘stupid’?

Oh, I absolutely agree that one should hire an attorney and have them present during questioning, and I will say here that I would do exactly that. The important consideration in this statement is the "questioning" part. With proper representation I would participate in that, knowing that I need to in order to provide information essential to the case. We all know that the first hours of an investigation and certainly an investigation into murder, are critical. Memories tend to fade or confuse with time, and waiting over 4 months to finally agree police to be allowed to interview you (also with restrictions in place) gave the Ramseys the very convenient fall-back of "I can't recall", or "I don't remember". I think it's fair to say that a lot of lead time was lost (if one is to assume Ramsey innocence) as well as having fresh recollection of the events of that day and night.

Being an "open book" should be limited to relevance to the case being investigated. That's where I would expect an attorney to push back on my behalf, as well as cautioning about misspeaking.

 

[CloudedTruth]

Did her doctor due an internal exam and if he did, was he qualified to recognise SA?
If you debate the merit of the expert called in, how much weight do we put on Dr. Beufs opinion?

Good question and I don't believe there is information available that would answer that question.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

I believe there was some degree of negligence on the part of Dr Beuf. This little girl had frequent UTI's and Vaginitis visiting him over 30 times during a 3 year period prior to her death and he never questioned this?? Never referred Jonbenet to a specialist??

I believe Jonbenet's parents were equally negligent in never addressing the chronic bedwetting and frequent Doctor vistis. The Ramsey's when interviewed were always very dismissive of these issues. Either they knew what the real causes were or there was a high degree of neglect and or emotional disconnect.

As a parent I would be very very concerned if any of my kids at Jonebenet's age exhibited these same issues.

This simply is not normal and paints a picture of a young girl almost in crisis.

If this was a patient in a Pediatric office today, I promise it would not go unnoticed for multiple reasons.
1. The SA possibility
2. The lack of resolution.
3. The frequency of all issues in a 3 year period unless there was a definitive chronic condition.
This patient would stand out from the others.

 

[CloudedTruth]

I believe there was some degree of negligence on the part of Dr Beuf. This little girl had frequent UTI's and Vaginitis visiting him over 30 times during a 3 year period prior to her death and he never questioned this?? Never referred Jonbenet to a specialist??

I believe Jonbenet's parents were equally negligent in never addressing the chronic bedwetting and frequent Doctor vistis. The Ramsey's when interviewed were always very dismissive of these issues. Either they knew what the real causes were or there was a high degree of neglect and or emotional disconnect.

As a parent I would be very very concerned if any of my kids at Jonebenet's age exhibited these same issues.

This simply is not normal and paints a picture of a young girl almost in crisis.

100% agree. Dr. Beuf had stated that he didn't think the amount of visits were excessive at all. Most parents whom I have seen comment on this subject very strongly disagree. Since I am not a mother I cannot comment from that point of view, however I was a kid and I can tell you that even with a chronic issue that was recurring, I went to see the doctor on average maybe 4 times a year, with one of those being the annual wellness exam.

Patsy did at least see to it that JonBenet was seen by her doctor when she was ill. But at what point do you start asking the question as to why she got ill so much or had so many genital / vaginal issues? At what point do you ask if she should be taken to a specialist? Why was Dr. Beuf seemingly so unconcerned about all JonBenet's issues?

The bedwetting had become a chronic issue. In the couple of months before her death it was a nightly occurrence. There were also other toileting issues. Despite the Ramseys denials of the significance, they did express being concerned to Dr. Beuf. Did he look into any physical or genetic issues that may have been the cause?

It isn't normal and I agree with the assessment that JonBenet may very well have been in crisis. There were plenty of signs, and that nothing was done definitely qualifies as parental neglect IMO. This is something I have often commented about....both Burke and JonBenet had lots of materialistic possessions, they were fed and clothed, but what they didn't have was two parents who were invested in the hard work of actually parenting.

 

[AddieBoo]

not according to her own personal doctor who has no reason to lie about it

Losing his license. Criminal prosecution, withholding evidence, obstruction of justice. There is a profound reason to lie.