Father says DNA could solve one of country’s biggest murder mysteries: Who killed JonBenét Ramsey

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  • #481
What a wild statement to make. How does Burke's medical and school records help solve the case?

It is very clear that some of you will never believe it when the case is solved and the Ramsey's had nothing to do with it.
IMO, I don't see anything wild about reviewing BRs school or medical records. Everyone is a suspect until they are eliminated. There is nothing in my child's records that I would need to suppress. If those records showed nothing to note, I'd be holding them up on a poster board to clear my child's name. Why did the Ramsey's always do the opposite of that that would have been helpful and in the best interest of the case?
 
  • #482
I am firmly not BDI and I believe demanding the release of a 9-year-old’s personal information is extreme. There are certain records law enforcement would have access to, but it is certainly not our right to know anything about a 9-year-old, even if he killed someone. He would never be a criminal or felon at that age and his records should never be released. Imo
I certainly wouldn't feel that way in the scenerio you describe if my child was seated next to a child who killed some one no matter who the child was.
Even private schools who specialize in children with emotional problems will screen and observe a child before accepting them to make sure they are not a risk to students or staff.
 
  • #483
IMO, I don't see anything wild about reviewing BRs school or medical records. Everyone is a suspect until they are eliminated. There is nothing in my child's records that I would need to suppress. If those records showed nothing to note, I'd be holding them up on a poster board to clear my child's name. Why did the Ramsey's always do the opposite of that that would have been helpful and in the best interest of the case?
Burke was never a suspect. If you read early analysis of this case, no one believed he was responsible. Kolar and the CBS show pointed to him many years later. No one leaning BDI would clear him anyway. They could see nothing at all or some behavioral concerns or any other records and people would justify he still may have done it.

It accomplishes nothing, would not clear him no matter what it shows, and opens him up to intense scrutiny as a 9-year-old child. As a parent, I would never open my child up to any public scrutiny and my children have absolutely nothing of note in their school records, either. One line by a teacher: “Burke can be a bit impulsive when completing his multiplication tables,” would be picked apart on forums like these as evidence of murder.

Jmo
 
  • #484
IMO, I don't see anything wild about reviewing BRs school or medical records. Everyone is a suspect until they are eliminated. There is nothing in my child's records that I would need to suppress. If those records showed nothing to note, I'd be holding them up on a poster board to clear my child's name. Why did the Ramsey's always do the opposite of that that would have been helpful and in the best interest of the case?
Excellent point. They did always do exactly the opposite of what would have been in the best interest of the case. They were in no way transparent about anything, they instead chose to hide as much as possible. They made themselves look guilty as he**.
 
  • #485
I certainly wouldn't feel that way in the scenerio you describe if my child was seated next to a child who killed some one no matter who the child was.
Even private schools who specialize in children with emotional problems will screen and observe a child before accepting them to make sure they are not a risk to students or staff.
Schools transfer records to other schools and behavioral specialists make recommendations about necessary alternative school settings. That’s a very different scenario than releasing all psychological and school records to the public, media and documentarians so we can hyper-analyze them.
 
  • #486
I am firmly not BDI and I believe demanding the release of a 9-year-old’s personal information is extreme. There are certain records law enforcement would have access to, but it is certainly not our right to know anything about a 9-year-old, even if he killed someone. He would never be a criminal or felon at that age and his records should never be released. Imo
With all the back door deals that were being made by Team Ramsey, they certainly could've released records to LE with strict terms, only to be seen by certain LE personnel. I don't think anyone is advocating that personal records should be made available to the public.
 
  • #487
With all the back door deals that were being made by Team Ramsey, they certainly could've released records to LE with strict terms, only to be seen by certain LE personnel. I don't think anyone is advocating that personal records should be made available to the public.
With so many things being leaked at various times, I don’t have any confidence that we wouldn’t be able read Burke’s records right now if the Ramseys had allowed it at the time. It’s a huge violation of his privacy, which he deserves to have protected.

But again, I’m just not BDI. Adults should be brought to justice, adults can be scrutinized. I don’t believe it’s ethical to do that to a 9-year-old child. Even if he had involvement (though I do not believe he did), everything was legally and morally his parents’ fault at that age. Scrutinize them and leave him out of it. Jmo
 
  • #488
Burke was never a suspect. If you read early analysis of this case, no one believed he was responsible. Kolar and the CBS show pointed to him many years later. No one leaning BDI would clear him anyway. They could see nothing at all or some behavioral concerns or any other records and people would justify he still may have done it.

It accomplishes nothing, would not clear him no matter what it shows, and opens him up to intense scrutiny as a 9-year-old child. As a parent, I would never open my child up to any public scrutiny and my children have absolutely nothing of note in their school records, either. One line by a teacher: “Burke can be a bit impulsive when completing his multiplication tables,” would be picked apart on forums like these as evidence of murder.

Jmo
Maybe LE not looking at Burke, was one of the early police mistakes we hear so much about.
He has been under intense scrutiny and still is 27 years later. I don't think a school record regarding multiplication is the smoking gun BDI theorist are looking for. It's the psychiatric records that may hold a clue. BR did nothing to dispel the BDI theory when he did the Dr Phil interview be it from his comment that he was downstairs after everyone went to bed or his behavior that seemed very off or were we not supposed to notice?
 
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  • #489
Schools transfer records to other schools and behavioral specialists make recommendations about necessary alternative school settings. That’s a very different scenario than releasing all psychological and school records to the public, media and documentarians so we can hyper-analyze them.
My point is
Schools transfer records to other schools and behavioral specialists make recommendations about necessary alternative school settings. That’s a very different scenario than releasing all psychological and school records to the public, media and documentarians so we can hyper-analyze them.
They should have been available to the police. No one is above the law in an investigation. If there was a chance he was responsible, it needed to be vetted for many reasons including the safety of others.
 
  • #490
With so many things being leaked at various times, I don’t have any confidence that we wouldn’t be able read Burke’s records right now if the Ramseys had allowed it at the time. It’s a huge violation of his privacy, which he deserves to have protected.

But again, I’m just not BDI. Adults should be brought to justice, adults can be scrutinized. I don’t believe it’s ethical to do that to a 9-year-old child. Even if he had involvement (though I do not believe he did), everything was legally and morally his parents’ fault at that age. Scrutinize them and leave him out of it. Jmo
Again, if strict stipulations were in place an agreement could've been made. For the record, I am not BDI either.

It's not an easy question to answer, I don't think this is a black and white issue. The minor's rights should be protected, but the safety of other children he had contact with deserve protection too. If there were anything in his records indicating that he posed a potential risk to the safety of others (or himself for that matter), that's an important factor to consider. One can argue that it is both legally and morally the responsibility of the parents for their child, but I guarantee you if something had happened down the road with that child that resulted in injury or death of another child and it became known that doctors, teachers, therapists and parents knew he posed a risk and hid that information there would be hell to pay. One can also argue that then the parents could be held accountable, as well as others in authority who may have know, however by that time it's too late. The damage would've been done.

This is an issue that has plagued communities for a long time. From the Catholic Church to the Boy Scouts of America (just two examples), and the failure of officials to act on reports of abuse and dangers to kids that someone may pose. There are many cases of abusers who have gone on to harm other children when they were known to be dangers. Alex Hunter himself was involved in cases where he reduced charges, offered plea deals to people who should've been locked away to prevent them from harming others again. As a result, repeated offenses did see many others harmed.
 
  • #491
releasing all psychological and school records to the public, media and documentarians so we can hyper-analyze them.
Indeed, and ‘we’ likely lack the required expertise and context with which to properly do so.

Innocent parents/family would not need them to be sealed.

This smacks of ‘innocent people don’t need lawyers’ which is absolutely false.
 
  • #492
Indeed, and ‘we’ likely lack the required expertise and context with which to properly do so.



This smacks of ‘innocent people don’t need lawyers’ which is absolutely false.
No one is advocating records be release to the public, but to those investigating the case who then can have the appropriate experts analyze them as needed.

I don't agree that the comment supports that "innocent people don't need lawyers". It's about transparency. It's absolutely smart and in many cases such as this necessary to protect yourself by hiring attorneys to help navigate all the legalities involved. But if you are innocent, proving that by cooperation should be the ultimate goal. The Ramseys hid behind a wall of attorneys instead of cooperating. How do you prove innocence if you don't even make the slightest effort to do so?

I've brought this up before and I will again, and that's the case of Polly Klaas and how differently her parents handled that. As painful and intrusive as it was, they were completely transparent and invited the investigation in to look at the most intimate details of their lives in order to be ruled out as suspects so that the investigation could then concentrate on finding the real culprit. That's what you do when you're innocent.
 
  • #493
But if you are innocent, proving that by cooperation should be the ultimate goal.

That’s a statement of your personal values (commonly shared by many), but it’s not a statement of fact or legal necessity.

In fact, it’s not actually your job to ‘prove your innocence’ (although one may feel compelled to do so for a variety of reasons) - it’s the police/DA’s job to prove your guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
 
  • #494
At best what they indicated was suggestive of prior sexual abuse but there's no certainty. There are simply other possible explanations.

Even some updated research (https://cdn.icmec.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Revised-Adams-Guidelines-2023.pdf) says

Healed hymenal transection/complete hymen cleft- a defect in the hymen below the 3 to 9 o’clock location that extends to or through the base of the hymen,with no hymenal tissue discernible at that location.

Is highly suggestive of abuse not indicative.
Your opinion IMO would not stand up in a court of law on this issue.
This is one area of the case that is not debated. It is an accepted fact that Jon Benet Ramsey was the victim of SA at least 10 days prior to her murder if not longer.
 
  • #495
That’s a statement of your personal values (commonly shared by many), but it’s not a statement of fact or legal necessity.

In fact, it’s not actually your job to ‘prove your innocence’ (although one may feel compelled to do so for a variety of reasons) - it’s the police/DA’s job to prove your guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
The point is, in cases like this when you want to find the "real" perpetrator, most people understand that in order to do so you have to be cleared first. The police have said it, the FBI have said it......an investigation of murder, especially when it happens in the home with other family members present, always starts with the small circle of the family and then works its way outward. If that small circle is never allowed to be fully investigated and cleared, the circle is hindered in its ability to widen.

Factually it's correct that the burden to prove guilt is on LE. That said, in a case like this wouldn't you want to prove your innocence so that LE can look elsewhere? When you actively obstruct an investigation of clearing you by hiding things you make yourself look guilty. They might as well stood on a street corner holding up signs, "prove we're guilty"! The facts are the Ramseys really haven't done much to assist in getting justice for their daughter. Does that make them guilty of murdering her? No, it doesn't. But it also doesn't do anything to promote the idea that they are innocent.
 
  • #496
Your opinion IMO would not stand up in a court of law on this issue.
This is one area of the case that is not debated. It is an accepted fact that Jon Benet Ramsey was the victim of SA at least 10 days prior to her murder if not longer.
I think Dr. McCann's testimony on the stand in a courtroom would be extremely compelling and very difficult to dispute. His extensive research on the subject is still considered to be of such relevance as to be the basis for criteria for identifying SA in children in the entire state of California which uses reporting forms developed with his assistance and based on his research.
 
  • #497
I am firmly not BDI and I believe demanding the release of a 9-year-old’s personal information is extreme. There are certain records law enforcement would have access to, but it is certainly not our right to know anything about a 9-year-old, even if he killed someone. He would never be a criminal or felon at that age and his records should never be released. Imo

This is a murder investigation.

The medical and academic records must be considered. The Grand Jury subpoenaed his third grade teacher and Doug Stine. The Grand Jury had full subpoena power to investigate.
Evidence swings both ways. What was discovered could have exonerated Burke Ramsey or not for any consideration. His age prevented him from indictment/prosecution, but the courts could have made special considerations if the courts found him guilty, through juvenile court? The four indictments released for both parents cite “murder in the first degree “ So if those indictments had moved forward, it would seem probable that first degree murder charges, if successfully prosecuted in some way, would not go without punishment.
The good news is that the statute of limitations does not run out for murder. Even in Colorado.
 
  • #498
That’s a statement of your personal values (commonly shared by many), but it’s not a statement of fact or legal necessity.

In fact, it’s not actually your job to ‘prove your innocence’ (although one may feel compelled to do so for a variety of reasons) - it’s the police/DA’s job to prove your guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
RSBBMFF:

Yes I agree…… and this IMO is where many might differ on what occurred or was allowed to (not) occur in this case: “it’s the police/DA’s job to prove your guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.” I do.

AFAIK this was never done in this case. And IIUC a Boulder, CO GJ voted to indict the parents each on two counts relating to the case. And it seems the authorities and the then DA for reasons some think unexplained did not pursue. IMO a miscarriage of justice on behalf of a deceased young child. And also IMO unfortunately perpetuated further by the subsequent DA. SMH.

At this point all that seems IMO clear is this case will never be prosecuted or solved. And IMO, yet another ‘documentary’ is not ‘solving’ it. MOO
 
  • #499
I think Dr. McCann's testimony on the stand in a courtroom would be extremely compelling and very difficult to dispute. His extensive research on the subject is still considered to be of such relevance as to be the basis for criteria for identifying SA in children in the entire state of California which uses reporting forms developed with his assistance and based on his research.
 
  • #500
Maybe LE not looking at Burke, was one of the early police mistakes we hear so much about.
He has been under intense scrutiny and still is 27 years later. I don't think a school record regarding multiplication is the smoking gun BDI theorist are looking for. It's the psychiatric records that may hold a clue. BR did nothing to dispel the BDI theory when he did the Dr Phil interview be it from his comment that he was downstairs after everyone went to bed or his behavior that seemed very off or were we not supposed to notice?
If anything, perhaps he continues to be under such scrutiny because none of the rumors have been effectively dispelled by facts. Again, the lack of transparency (and again, I am not referring to making records available to the press or the public) is such a significant factor in this case.

The Dr. Phil interview was an absolute train wreck and is indicative of the lack of self awareness the Ramseys have exhibited since day one. Not only did it do nothing to dispel the BDI theory, it increased the chatter of how unusual his behavior is. And likely he will never speak out publicly again, so the BDI theory will remain as will the scrutiny of Burke. That could have gone away a long time ago if it had been handled differently.
 
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