Father says DNA could solve one of country’s biggest murder mysteries: Who killed JonBenét Ramsey

[Bekind89]

He gives me the creeps too.

I have searched for more information about Beth Ramsey and her relationship with John. I have found nothing except a very few references that suggest (without sources or proof) she may have been a victim of SA, with the implication that it was John. So I am intrigued by your comment that they were estranged. May I ask where you came by that information?

The only other sort of "inside information" about her was a comment that I read from someone who said they were a former roommate in college, and it ws about her relationship with the boyfriend who was driving and died with her in the crash. A couple of her friends seemed to think he was an odd choice for her. They indicated that he was a partier who liked to drink. One of the friends had dated him before Beth did, and she said he was prone to drinking too much and when he did, he got abusive. As 2nd hand information, it probably would be framed as hearsay.

I apologize for my memory, but I was obsessed with case for years. But that was many years ago and I had to move on because knowing her killer would never be held accountable became too much for my mental health.
That info about his older daughter came from an excellent website called Rose something. She has since passed away but that woman had an entire website with the most accurate, detailed information on this case..
There was also the book that the female LEO who was there that morning wrote. She was absolutely convinced JR did it.
I will never forget how she described JR entering the living room next to the Christmas tree holding JR's little body. She stated that he held her body away from himself, the way one would carry a muddy pet that they didn't want to stain their clothing. Patsy fell onto her child, holding and hugging her , sobbing.
It was a stark and imo very revealing description of the difference in John and Patsy's reaction.
I'm paraphrasing, but the officer said "John and I locked eyes and in that moment he knew that I knew he was guilty. "
She stated that she moved her hand to her holster, no knowing if she would have to use her gun.

 

[CloudedTruth]

I apologize for my memory, but I was obsessed with case for years. But that was many years ago and I had to move on because knowing her killer would never be held accountable became too much for my mental health.
That info about his older daughter came from an excellent website called Rose something. She has since passed away but that woman had an entire website with the most accurate, detailed information on this case..
There was also the book that the female LEO who was there that morning wrote. She was absolutely convinced JR did it.
I will never forget how she described JR entering the living room next to the Christmas tree holding JR's little body. She stated that he held her body away from himself, the way one would carry a muddy pet that they didn't want to stain their clothing. Patsy fell onto her child, holding and hugging her , sobbing.
It was a stark and imo very revealing description of the difference in John and Patsy's reaction.
I'm paraphrasing, but the officer said "John and I locked eyes and in that moment he knew that I knew he was guilty. "
She stated that she moved her hand to her holster, no knowing if she would have to use her gun.

ACandyRose?? Yes, that's a great site that I always go back to for reference. I will have to look for info on Beth. Thank you.

I am well aware of Linda Arndt's descriptions of that morning and her feelings about John. Many have dismissed her insights. She has taken a lot of heat over the years about how she handled the situation, but I always felt that she was scapegoated by police superiors who left her there on her own for several hours and ignored her requests for back up. Yes, she made mistakes, she was not the only one. I cannot however dismiss her gut intuition and instincts. She was there. She was face to face with John and those were her observations. It reminds me of the other descriptions of him when he would get really angry. A former housekeeper described how his eyes appeared to go black. That may sound dramatic to some people. I was once in the very uncomfortable position of witnessing that very same thing with someone. It was scary as hell. When you see something like that it sticks with you. It's like a glimpse into a dark hole of evilness and that some people have the capability of evil within them.

 

[Tower]

Kids kill. They commit SA crimes. If you are interested how it pertains to the case, Kolar made some significant inquires in the professional sphere of SBP. In his book..
I did not say that a prosecution could not be adjudicated for a now adult, from a crime committed when they were younger than 10 in Colorado. That was a question.
If it is discovered that BDI, then do you really think charges would be dismissed? I don’t know how the DA would handle it, but doubtful it would be an all out dismissal.

I know it seems like I’m being argumentative, but I am just not understanding BDI. Please help me understand your question.

Charged with what? He was below the “age of criminal responsibility.” Charged with an accident? He cannot be charged with murder nor SA because he could not form intent.

Charges would not be appropriate. If they found evidence BR wanted to kill JBR, CPS may be involved and counseling could be enforced. If it was an accident, nothing legal would happen at all.

https://pdo.santaclaracounty.gov/cases-we-take/juvenile/age-matters/under-12-years-old

 

[Bekind89]

ACandyRose?? Yes, that's a great site that I always go back to for reference. I will have to look for info on Beth. Thank you.

I am well aware of Linda Arndt's descriptions of that morning and her feelings about John. Many have dismissed her insights. She has taken a lot of heat over the years about how she handled the situation, but I always felt that she was scapegoated by police superiors who left her there on her own for several hours and ignored her requests for back up. Yes, she made mistakes, she was not the only one. I cannot however dismiss her gut intuition and instincts. She was there. She was face to face with John and those were her observations. It reminds me of the other descriptions of him when he would get really angry. A former housekeeper described how his eyes appeared to go black. That may sound dramatic to some people. I was once in the very uncomfortable position of witnessing that very same thing with someone. It was scary as hell. When you see something like that it sticks with you. It's like a glimpse into a dark hole of evilness and that some people have the capability of evil within them.

Yes, I have witnessed the same and it is something one will never forget. Black eyes.
John was known for having a nasty, volatile temper.
PR had been out of state for many weeks receiving chemo. I will always believe that JR was an opportunistic or situational offender. He started with JB while PR was gone, IMHO.
That night a neighbor reported hearing a scream. I believe JR hurt JB that night and could not calm her down. Fearing discovery if PR woke up and caught him, he lost his famous temper and hurt JB, either with the head would first or the garrotte.
He put the empty suitcase by the basement window and wrote that terrifying ransom note on order to frighten PR into not calling the police.
I believe his plan was to tell PR that he was going to pay the kidnapper, therefore having an explanation for carrying the suitcase, which he actually planned to use to remove his child's body from the home. Has he been successful in this plan, when her body was evidently discovered, he would then be able to blame the non-existent kidnapper.
But PR blew that plan apart because she immediately phoned the police despite the threat from the " kidnapper".
I will always wonder why she did. I have always had the gut feeling that something about the way JR was acting frightened her, but that is simply speculation on my part.
JF and the officer who were there that day both stated that JR was acting very strangely. He repeatedly went out to check the mail, etc.
The fact that any parents first thought and action minutes after finding their child dead was to hire attorneys speaks volumes to me. JR also had to be stopped by the police from leaving the state immediately after finding JB. He actually attempted to hire a pilot and leave Colorado.
JR bought his way out of a murder charge, imo. Those he couldn't buy he intimidated and threatened with lawsuits.
Yet he to this very is portrayed as a grieving, Christian father.
Sickening isn't a strong enough word.

 

[Bekind89]

Yes, I have witnessed the same and it is something one will never forget. Black eyes.
John was known for having a nasty, volatile temper.
PR had been out of state for many weeks receiving chemo. I will always believe that JR was an opportunistic or situational offender. He started with JB while PR was gone, IMHO.
That night a neighbor reported hearing a scream. I believe JR hurt JB that night and could not calm her down. Fearing discovery if PR woke up and caught him, he lost his famous temper and hurt JB, either with the head would first or the garrotte.
He put the empty suitcase by the basement window and wrote that terrifying ransom note on order to frighten PR into not calling the police.
I believe his plan was to tell PR that he was going to pay the kidnapper, therefore having an explanation for carrying the suitcase, which he actually planned to use to remove his child's body from the home. Has he been successful in this plan, when her body was evidently discovered, he would then be able to blame the non-existent kidnapper.
But PR blew that plan apart because she immediately phoned the police despite the threat from the " kidnapper".
I will always wonder why she did. I have always had the gut feeling that something about the way JR was acting frightened her, but that is simply speculation on my part.
JF and the officer who were there that day both stated that JR was acting very strangely. He repeatedly went out to check the mail, etc.
The fact that any parents first thought and action minutes after finding their child dead was to hire attorneys speaks volumes to me. JR also had to be stopped by the police from leaving the state immediately after finding JB. He actually attempted to hire a pilot and leave Colorado.
JR bought his way out of a murder charge, imo. Those he couldn't buy he intimidated and threatened with lawsuits.
Yet he to this very is portrayed as a grieving, Christian father.
Sickening isn't a strong enough word.

Please excuse my many typos, I have MS and am having severe brain fog right now. I am sorry because I know it is difficult to have sift through and figure out what a person is trying to convey when it appears that they are incapable of spelling, lol.

 

[Bekind89]

I know it seems like I’m being argumentative, but I am just not understanding BDI. Please help me understand your question.

Charged with what? He was below the “age of criminal responsibility.” Charged with an accident? He cannot be charged with murder nor SA because he could not form intent.

Charges would not be appropriate. If they found evidence BR wanted to kill JBR, CPS may be involved and counseling could be enforced. If it was an accident, nothing legal would happen at all.

https://pdo.santaclaracounty.gov/cases-we-take/juvenile/age-matters/under-12-years-old

Does anyone else remember when some tabloid released the horrific pictures of JB's head wound? It was forceful enough to take down and kill a 300 pound adult.
Have you seen the pictures of 9 year BR? He was a very frail, slight little boy.
There is absolutely no way that tiny boy inflicted such a violent wound.
A very angry adult male know for his vicious temper, however, would have been very capable of that.

 

[CloudedTruth]

Please excuse my many typos, I have MS and am having severe brain fog right now. I am sorry because I know it is difficult to have sift through and figure out what a person is trying to convey when it appears that they are incapable of spelling, lol.

No need for apologies! You’re doing just fine and I have no problems reading and understanding your posts.

 

[Bekind89]

No need for apologies! You’re doing just fine and I have no problems reading and understanding your posts.

Thank you for kind remark. I have always been obsessed with spelling correctly, lol. Then I was diagnosed with MS and I had to learn to let some things go because this disease controls you, you do not control it.
Sometimes it is actually humorous because the wrong words will come out of my mouth instead of the intended ones. I was giving someone directions to the aquarium and I directed them to turn at the capital. The one in Washington. I live in another state.
A sense of humor really helps.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

Does anyone else remember when some tabloid released the horrific pictures of JB's head wound? It was forceful enough to take down and kill a 300 pound adult.
Have you seen the pictures of 9 year BR? He was a very frail, slight little boy.
There is absolutely no way that tiny boy inflicted such a violent wound.
A very angry adult male know for his vicious temper, however, would have been very capable of that.

Just to play devils advocate here, when I was 5, I had a 4 year old push the top rail of a dismantled swing set on me and it struck me on the top of my head requiring 5-6 stitches. I'm of an age when swing sets were far heavier than today's back yard model.
You can't answer the possibility without knowing the details.
A very simplified example would be her sitting on the floor and he raising a golf club over his head and hits her. The blow will be greater than if they were standing next to each other side by side. Then ask yourself, what if it was heavier than a club in that same scenerio. Would more damage occur?
At 10 years old, my cousin was an exercise boy at the racetrack riding and handling 1000 lb horses. He was a tiny kid whose nick name was PeeWee. Point being, we don't know all BRs hobbies, how athletic he was at 10 ( 3 weeks shy) We do know he was tall for his age.

 

[Chypre]

The morning of the crime John and Patsy allowed BR to go stay with a neighbor. If he had hurt his sister and the parents were covering for him, there is absolutely no way they would have allowed that child to be alone with the neighbors or anyone for that matter. They would no have idea what a young, possibly, frightened and traumatized little boy might say to them or let slip out. It would be too risky to allow that.

It might have been the lesser of two evils.

 

[AddieBoo]

I know it seems like I’m being argumentative, but I am just not understanding BDI. Please help me understand your question.

Charged with what? He was below the “age of criminal responsibility.” Charged with an accident? He cannot be charged with murder nor SA because he could not form intent.

Charges would not be appropriate. If they found evidence BR wanted to kill JBR, CPS may be involved and counseling could be enforced. If it was an accident, nothing legal would happen at all.

https://pdo.santaclaracounty.gov/cases-we-take/juvenile/age-matters/under-12-years-old

I respect your opinion, but given the crime, if BDI were found to be guilty back then, there is just no way he would be released into society without some incredible amount of discernment from the courts. I have no idea what would’ve happened legally, but he would have a price to pay. If nothing else to protect the public in case his personality was a danger to society. How would maturing into adulthood with that kind of history do to a person? The crime, whether accident or not, is a symptom. Accidents don’t just happen. They are caused.

In any event, experts would probably have been consulted on what to do, and that would have been in the courts to decide in relation to the laws and Burkes freedom. But get off free? No way.
Maybe lifetime probation..,,

 

[AddieBoo]

Yes, I have witnessed the same and it is something one will never forget. Black eyes.
John was known for having a nasty, volatile temper.
PR had been out of state for many weeks receiving chemo. I will always believe that JR was an opportunistic or situational offender. He started with JB while PR was gone, IMHO.
That night a neighbor reported hearing a scream. I believe JR hurt JB that night and could not calm her down. Fearing discovery if PR woke up and caught him, he lost his famous temper and hurt JB, either with the head would first or the garrotte.
He put the empty suitcase by the basement window and wrote that terrifying ransom note on order to frighten PR into not calling the police.
I believe his plan was to tell PR that he was going to pay the kidnapper, therefore having an explanation for carrying the suitcase, which he actually planned to use to remove his child's body from the home. Has he been successful in this plan, when her body was evidently discovered, he would then be able to blame the non-existent kidnapper.
But PR blew that plan apart because she immediately phoned the police despite the threat from the " kidnapper".
I will always wonder why she did. I have always had the gut feeling that something about the way JR was acting frightened her, but that is simply speculation on my part.
JF and the officer who were there that day both stated that JR was acting very strangely. He repeatedly went out to check the mail, etc.
The fact that any parents first thought and action minutes after finding their child dead was to hire attorneys speaks volumes to me. JR also had to be stopped by the police from leaving the state immediately after finding JB. He actually attempted to hire a pilot and leave Colorado.
JR bought his way out of a murder charge, imo. Those he couldn't buy he intimidated and threatened with lawsuits.
Yet he to this very is portrayed as a grieving, Christian father.
Sickening isn't a strong enough word.

Arndt really got a raw deal. Her field of expertise in LE was SA cases. She was there at ground zero. Her opinions and observations, and intuitive feelings are very important. Even though it was Christmas, still hard to believe she was the only LE person on scene. And when did the coroner arrive? 7:30 pm??

 

[tezi]

L

Arndt really got a raw deal. Her field of expertise in LE was SA cases. She was there at ground zero. Her opinions and observations, and intuitive feelings are very important. Even though it was Christmas, still hard to believe she was the only LE person on scene. And when did the coroner arrive? 7:30 pm??

Linda Arndt should have never been left in charge at the Ramsey crime scene. She got exactly what she deserved.

JMO, IMO, and all other disclaimers.

 

[Chypre]

IF BDI,
He was too young for intent.
I hope people understand those Maglight flashlights are commonly kept for self defense. Often given to young women to keep in their car.
I don't think the impulsive act was intent to kill. I think those flashlights are made to give someone a strong whack.

 

[Chypre]

I respect your opinion, but given the crime, if BDI were found to be guilty back then, there is just no way he would be released into society without some incredible amount of discernment from the courts. I have no idea what would’ve happened legally, but he would have a price to pay. If nothing else to protect the public in case his personality was a danger to society. How would maturing into adulthood with that kind of history do to a person? The crime, whether accident or not, is a symptom. Accidents don’t just happen. They are caused.

In any event, experts would probably have been consulted on what to do, and that would have been in the courts to decide in relation to the laws and Burkes freedom. But get off free? No way.
Maybe lifetime probation..,,

I respectfully disagree. Maybe it depends where you live, but I've known a handful of cases (in person) where it happened. Edit to add: Most of the kids may have had a short hospitalization or group home experience (1 month at most) and then brought back. This was in early 2000's.

 

[AddieBoo]

I agree with the SA. Where it isn't clear obviously is who or was there more than one.
JR did not stand out to me until I start watching his interviews. He feels malignant but that may just be from years of being deceptive.
If the stories that were reported are true, it sounds as though JAR hated his little sister.
BR, if responsible, I feel most likely suffered abuse himself. I'm repeating myself here, but I had a son the same age. Boy Scouts and churches had no shortage of pedos hiding in plain sight at the time. I had an attorney friend who had many SA clients mostly from church.
As one Podcaster mentions, they even but a warning in the BS of America handbook regarding SA.
There was a transcript from Linda Arndt that was only 2-3 sentences that I believe she got from the school and stated that he had been abused. It didn't say what type of abuse. I have tried to find it again and never have.
If it is accurate, it means he probably was receiving help and there was a reason the school was made aware.
I wish I could find it.

I'm sure kids were brutal . Even if not, the questions probably never stopped.
I do have some doubts as to how well BR was able to read the room though.
Just days after JBR died, he recounted with such excitement and downright glee that the press were there to see him. Him! I have witnessed a lot of children lose loved ones, their response were more sadness and grief then " " hey, look what I can do!"
It bothers me that where ever BR was mentally at the time, it was very important for him to be front and center while his sister lay dead.

I do wonder how this makes BR feel now. The only glimpse we have into BR as an adult is the Dr Phil interview. Who ever made the decision for him to do that interview did him a great disservice. I wonder if the Netflix documentary is an attempt to fix that fiasco?

It’s 28 years of “fixing” that fiasco”
Got that right!

Years ago, I distinctly remember one of the tabloids lead stories concerned the sorority sisters at the university his eldest daughter at attended. They were claiming that Beth had told them she was going to confront her dad about his SA, right before she was killed,
Cannot find that tabloid copy anywhere…
…but there was a small article about detectives talking to at least two sorority members, maybe more for an undisclosed reason, from her university in Ohio.(SFG 2/21/97)

Smoke??

 

[AddieBoo]

L

Linda Arndt should have never been left in charge at the Ramsey crime scene. She got exactly what she deserved.

JMO, IMO, and all other disclaimers.

Who made the decision to leave her in charge?

 

[AddieBoo]

I respectfully disagree. Maybe it depends where you live, but I've known a handful of cases (in person) where it happened. Edit to add: Most of the kids may have had a short hospitalization or group home experience (1 month at most) and then brought back. This was in early 2000's.

This was/is the highest profile murder case in the last 30 years.

Whatever decision made, would be under the most glaring microscope, nationally. Perhaps regarding precedent. Perhaps parental accountability. Who knows?
But it would not be a slam dunk juvenile delinquent room and board facility for 5 years, ticket.

This was a horrific, brutal sadistic murder. Which part? There are 3 or 4. All horrific. There is so much effort at times, with the concerns of the killer.
What about justice for that little girl. What about justice for JonBenet?

 

[Chimera]

I honestly do not know how much I am allowed to say here, but I will say this: JR gives me the creeps. His daughter, the one who tragically lost her life in the auto accident, wanted nothing to do with him. They were estranged, to say the least.
JR was on the phone hiring THREE attorneys 20 minutes after ' finding ' the body of young daughter.
Why three? One to represent him, one to represent PR, and one to represent his ex-wife.
How odd is that? Why would he feel the need to hire an attorney for his ex-wife? Afraid of what she might reveal about her ex- husband? Again, I am only stating the things that have either been out of the norm in my opinion, or just downright bizarre.
I find that to be extremely odd, unusual, very strange and mere minutes after find the body of your young child.
But maybe that is just me. Maybe that is normal behavior for the wealthy. I just wouldn't know.

Bbm.

Thanks for this info.

Eta : Am looking around for more information about this and some sources.
Omo.

 

[Chypre]

This was/is the highest profile murder case in the last 30 years.

Whatever decision made, would be under the most glaring microscope, nationally. Perhaps regarding precedent. Perhaps parental accountability. Who knows?
But it would not be a slam dunk juvenile delinquent room and board facility for 5 years, ticket.

This was a horrific, brutal sadistic murder. Which part? There are 3 or 4. All horrific. There is so much effort at times, with the concerns of the killer.
What about justice for that little girl. What about justice for JonBenet?

My bad. I was thinking along the lines of just the hit with the mag lite. Edit to add: And then the authorities called right away.