Father says DNA could solve one of country’s biggest murder mysteries: Who killed JonBenét Ramsey

[GRT]

Patsy was ok with this?

That would be interesting to know. I don't recall reading her thoughts about it.

 

[Bekind89]

I wonder if the reason this case doesn't make sense is because PR might have been dealing with a possible drug addiction.

Patsy was heavily medicated most of the time. Heavily.

 

[AddieBoo]

My impression of PR is that, as she was a mother of two young children who was recovering from stage 4 cancer, she invested a lot in JB since she was 4 years old. Was it due to her cancer, we do not know, but we can assume. From a personal experience, I know of a mom who battled with cancer and because she did not know how much time she had left with her daughter, she became sort of obsessed with her, similar to Patsy. From the statements of Patsy's family and friends, she took the pageantry seriously and had big plans with JB. So I do not think that she accidentally killed her due to parental rage, bedwetting, stress or something else. I do not see her harming her - she was her life. I emphasize - it is only my opinion, I do not base it on any facts, and I do not state that it could not have happened.

I see that she was an outward person, who cared a lot about her and her families appearance and their social status. A lot of "not so nice" was swept under the rug or diminished, (like the bedwetting problems), and a picture of a happy, loving and wealthy family was presented to all who knew them. Looking at her written cards (like the christmas letter) it is easy to notice what indeed was important to her. Public opinion mattered a lot. IMO

I wrote about my theory in a separate post here "Just a theory on JB case", if you would like to read. I believe that there was an accident at the house that night that resulted with JB's scull fracture. And I believe that that accident was caused by Burke (he hit her hard in the fit of anger, but did not mean to kill her). I believe that the staging was done by his parents and he spent the night in his room and did not know anything about the staging. I believe they told Burke that JonBenet woke up from the "accident" and all was fine with her. That they all went to sleep soon after Burke was sent to his room and in the middle of the night a kidnapper entered their house and kidnapped his sister. And he believed his parents (at least for some time).
The reasons why I think John and Patsy mutually decided to cover it all up and stage a "monstrous" crime scene are:

• Because they did not want Burke to know and grow up knowing that he is the one responsible for murdering his sister.
• So that they all could be and stay the victims, not criminals.
• So that they would never have to admit publicly to the shame and guilt of being the parents of a child who killed his sister at 9 years old and have their reputation and life destroyed.
• So that the previous sexual abuse could be explained away.

One more possibility that was left out - If they did understand the severity (or were just afraid that the fracture possibly might have resulted in severe brain damage) of the head trauma (feeling the fracture and missing piece with their fingers on her scalp) - they just might have decided that the risk of having to forever care for a child in a vegetative state is so high that they did not want to do it. If Patsy understood that, then her dreams died that moment. IMO

And there is again the chance of being afraid that the child protection services would take away Burke and place him in an institution. I think of that as a possibility because of the sealing of all Burke's records. If there was something incriminating there to seal from police, they possibly had a reason to be afraid that they were guilty of something too. IMO

There are some here who dispute it all, but I see it as a possibility of what also could have happened. Unless someone can actually prove why it could not have happened this way. So please take it as my opinion only.

Your emphasis on Pasty’s cancer is right on IMO, Her diagnosis must have had such an enormous consequence on the family. That is a silly statement in part … it’s frickin cancer. But unless you have had experience with such a catestrophic illness, it’s hard to imagine the mental impact as well as the physical.
Much too much time fighting the cancer without John it seems. Both kids were so young at that time. All the back and forth for treatment. All the doctors visits, tests, surgeries, drugs, side effects.., And then her miraculous remission…on stage 4 ovarian cancer..,
Pastry was fortunate that JR was so financially secure.
Despite that remission she must have known what her future held even in the midst of that remission. And that she would still endure tests and retests, drugs…
She fought, you know? She fought that cancer and IMO during 1995-1996 she was fighting for JB. She may, at that very same time, also been wrestling with any suspicions and/or truths about SA and her family.
All these extraordinary circumstances about this case ..,
Though I’m not one hundred percent in agreement with your theory, your presentation with compassion for this family in such ugly crisis is a reminder to me that the Ramsey’s are human beings that IMO made horrible choices that cost them immeasurably on many levels.

 

[CloudedTruth]

But, that room was used...weren't some boxes of christmas toys found there? Put toys there were kids might not find them?

It was mostly used to store things in that weren't regularly used. You can see in crime scene photos just a bunch of junk, really. They did use it at Christmas time to also hide presents.

 

[CloudedTruth]

Yes, the room appears to be used. The partially opened gifts with FAO wrapping paper were there, and the boot print. Patsy at some point claimed to have wrapped the christmas presents there. Correct me if I'm wrong.

She wrapped presents in the basement, but not in the wine cellar.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Thank you for your well thought out response. I never have believed that PR would harm JB either.
The issue I have with BR accidentally harming his sister is the fact that J&P allowed B to stay with a neighbor that day, without them being present. As young as BR was, that was quite a chance to take on their part, not knowing what BR might say to them or let slip out about what happened.
That doesn't rule BR out, it makes me doubt BR did it because J&P would have never allowed him out of their sight that day, IMHO. But I could be wrong, I frequently am.
I always wonder that if PR knew JR killed her daughter, would she have stayed with him.
I guess we will never know.

Maybe @Bekind89 …. someone was worried more about what the son might say to investigators in the house? So maybe it was the lesser of two possible scenarios? And someone else said this earlier in the threads…… but I won’t find it now. There are too many threads here on this case IMO. And they should be collapsed into one. Too much confusion. MOO

 

[AddieBoo]

So, this is actually two separate incidents that occurred that have become combined into one.

On 12/26, approximately 30 minutes after having found JonBenet's body, John Ramsey was on the phone with his pilot. He was overheard by police making arrangements to fly to Atlanta. Police confronted him immediately and told him he could not leave. John responded that he had an important meeting that he needed to attend the following morning, 12/27. We know this to not be true as the Ramseys were scheduled to be in Charlevoix for the next couple of days. The police explained to him that he could not leave, that he needed to stay in Boulder to answer questions and assist with the investigation to find the murderer and what had happened to JonBenet. John finally agreed. They were told they needed to leave the house, John has said in subsequent interviews that they had nowhere to go and they just wanted to go home (Atlanta). Police offered to take them to a hotel, John refused. They instead went to stay with the Fernies.

A few days later they were making arrangements for the funeral in Atlanta and as I recall the story may have already booked commercial flights, when the folks at Lockheed Martin offered one of the corporate jets instead. John agreed. As I understand it, the coffin containing JonBenet's body was flown on the commercial flight while John, Patsy, Burke and some of the friends who were accompanying them to Atlanta took the corporate jet.

Actually my post is about two separate dates.
The combination of dates and confusion is less than accurate cut and paste during too early hours and taking care of my dog who ate all the cats food because the cat didn’t like the new food, so my dog, always on the lookout for anything the cat is doing not doing, ate the entire portion of cat food and paid for it, along with me, during the wee hours. My dog is recovered fully and my cat is laughing her off.

 

[Bekind89]

Your emphasis on Pasty’s cancer is right on IMO, Her diagnosis must have had such an enormous consequence on the family. That is a silly statement in part … it’s frickin cancer. But unless you have had experience with such a catestrophic illness, it’s hard to imagine the mental impact as well as the physical.
Much too much time fighting the cancer without John it seems. Both kids were so young at that time. All the back and forth for treatment. All the doctors visits, tests, surgeries, drugs, side effects.., And then her miraculous remission…on stage 4 ovarian cancer..,
Pastry was fortunate that JR was so financially secure.
Despite that remission she must have known what her future held even in the midst of that remission. And that she would still endure tests and retests, drugs…
She fought, you know? She fought that cancer and IMO during 1995-1996 she was fighting for JB. She may, at that very same time, also been wrestling with any suspicions and/or truths about SA and her family.
All these extraordinary circumstances about this case ..,
Though I’m not one hundred percent in agreement with your theory, your presentation with compassion for this family in such ugly crisis is a reminder to me that the Ramsey’s are human beings that IMO made horrible choices that cost them immeasurably on many levels.

Your emphasis on Pasty’s cancer is right on IMO, Her diagnosis must have had such an enormous consequence on the family. That is a silly statement in part … it’s frickin cancer. But unless you have had experience with such a catestrophic illness, it’s hard to imagine the mental impact as well as the physical.
Much too much time fighting the cancer without John it seems. Both kids were so young at that time. All the back and forth for treatment. All the doctors visits, tests, surgeries, drugs, side effects.., And then her miraculous remission…on stage 4 ovarian cancer..,
Pastry was fortunate that JR was so financially secure.
Despite that remission she must have known what her future held even in the midst of that remission. And that she would still endure tests and retests, drugs…
She fought, you know? She fought that cancer and IMO during 1995-1996 she was fighting for JB. She may, at that very same time, also been wrestling with any suspicions and/or truths about SA and her family.
All these extraordinary circumstances about this case ..,
Though I’m not one hundred percent in agreement with your theory, your presentation with compassion for this family in such ugly crisis is a reminder to me that the Ramsey’s are human beings that IMO made horrible choices that cost them immeasurably on many levels.

I remember seeing film clips of Patsy either arriving home or leaving for chemo treatments. She was always alone, always. John was never with her and no other family member accompanied her. That was very sad to me.
I have never believed that she hurt her child. She wasn't a perfect mother or person because none of us are. But she did love them and I have never felt that Patsy deserved the hatred and accusations that she had to endure.
This woman lost her child, and in the most horrific manner possible. Then was accused of the crime and vilified.
I hope Patsy is at peace now.

 

[CloudedTruth]

Patsy was ok with this?

Patsy was aware and seemingly didn't have an issue with it.

And it wasn't just changing her panties, it was wiping her behind.

One of the questions I have always had, is Patsy talking about having the discussion with Dr. Beuf, herself and JonBenet about allowing anyone to touch her private areas. And yet it was no secret that JonBenet would call out to anyone nearby to wipe her. Seems like that should've been addressed.

 

[CloudedTruth]

Actually my post is about two separate dates.
The combination of dates and confusion is less than accurate cut and paste during too early hours and taking care of my dog who ate all the cats food because the cat didn’t like the new food, so my dog, always on the lookout for anything the cat is doing not doing, ate the entire portion of cat food and paid for it, along with me, during the wee hours. My dog is recovered fully and my cat is laughing her *advertiser censored* off.

Ah, ok......it was confusing.

Glad your dog is ok.......mine is prone to eating anything and everything he can get in his mouth too. LOL. I just love being jarred awake by the sound of incoming dog puke....

 

[AddieBoo]

Ah, ok......it was confusing.

Glad your dog is ok.......mine is prone to eating anything and everything he can get in his mouth too. LOL. I just love being jarred awake by the sound of incoming dog puke....

Love dogs…

 

[ShadyLady]

Patsy was aware and seemingly didn't have an issue with it.

And it wasn't just changing her panties, it was wiping her behind.

One of the questions I have always had, is Patsy talking about having the discussion with Dr. Beuf, herself and JonBenet about allowing anyone to touch her private areas. And yet it was no secret that JonBenet would call out to anyone nearby to wipe her. Seems like that should've been addressed.

I am reviewing the housekeeper's opinions again.

PR and JR were not close. Different bedrooms?
PR use to leave notes for housekeeper, on the stairs.
Housekeeper was familiar with handwriting and said it was PR's
Blanket that JBR was wrapped in had been left in dryer, probably with nightgown stuck to it couple days before.
JR had recently yelled at PR over her housekeeping and cooking skills, making PR cry.

My opinion....letter writer did not like JR, maybe even hated him, killer tortured JBR before they killed her (per autopsy), anger? Revenge?

 

[Outfit tracker]

Maybe "points to", but crime solving needs something that categorically rules out any other possibility beyond a reasonable doubt, which I don't believe is possible, as the police didn't seal off the property and seriously investigate for evidence of an intruder.

And if the evidence is strong against the Ramsey's, why have they never been charged?

Until someone is charged and the evidence presented in court, and someone is convicted, every crime is unsolved. So at this point it is all just speculation. The word 'proof, just means 'my personal opinion'.

JMO

I am new and trying to better understand why some people insist it was not an intruder - based on what I read.. (legal documents) was that the ransom note was not written by any of the three people who were living there: PR/JR and obviously not the son. If no one who lives in the house wrote the ransom note, then wouldn't it have to be an intruder?

 

[GRT]

Patsy was aware and seemingly didn't have an issue with it.

And it wasn't just changing her panties, it was wiping her behind.

One of the questions I have always had, is Patsy talking about having the discussion with Dr. Beuf, herself and JonBenet about allowing anyone to touch her private areas. And yet it was no secret that JonBenet would call out to anyone nearby to wipe her. Seems like that should've been addressed.

This kind of openness seems to go hand-in-hand with beauty pageants and modeling in general. The participants are used to being handled, but that can create a dangerous lack of self-safety awareness and lead a child to think it's okay for strangers to touch her private areas.

 

[GRT]

I am new and trying to better understand why some people insist it was not an intruder - based on what I read.. (legal documents) was that the ransom note was not written by any of the three people who were living there: PR/JR and obviously not the son. If no one who lives in the house wrote the ransom note, then wouldn't it have to be an intruder?

I guess someone who had keys to Ramsey's house might not be called an "intruder."

Fleet White had keys. He also served them alcoholic beverages earlier in the evening. Who knows if he spiked those beverages in hopes they would sleep soundly?

 

[CloudedTruth]

I am reviewing the housekeeper's opinions again.

PR and JR were not close. Different bedrooms?
PR use to leave notes for housekeeper, on the stairs.
Housekeeper was familiar with handwriting and said it was PR's
Blanket that JBR was wrapped in had been left in dryer, probably with nightgown stuck to it couple days before.
JR had recently yelled at PR over her housekeeping and cooking skills, making PR cry.

My opinion....letter writer did not like JR, maybe even hated him, killer tortured JBR before they killed her (per autopsy), anger? Revenge?

PR did sleep in what was called Melinda's bedroom (which later became JonBenet's) when she was undergoing treatment. She was very immunocompromised so it made sense for her to be as isolated as possible.

We do not know for a fact that the blanket (and nightgown) were left in the dryer. The housekeeper guessed that may have been the case based upon seeing pictures of JonBenet's bed. She noticed that the sheets were different from the ones she had last made the bed with which was on 12/23. So she surmised that JonBenet had wet the bed again (by that time it was a nightly occurrence) and that Patsy had changed them. JonBenet always slept with that blanket, so it always got washed when the sheets had to be washed. Given that it was her favorite that she always slept with, it seems likely that Patsy would've washed and dried it for JB so she could have it. Also, there was JonBenet's blood found on the blanket and the nightgown. The nightgown actually contained the majority of the blood that was found at the scene. This points to those items not having been pulled out of the dryer as one of the last things done that night / morning.

 

[CloudedTruth]

I guess someone who had keys to Ramsey's house might not be called an "intruder."

Fleet White had keys. He also served them alcoholic beverages earlier in the evening. Who knows if he spiked those beverages in hopes they would sleep soundly?

Respectfully, that seems a little far fetched to me.

They were at the Whites for around 4ish hours. If he had spiked their drinks people would've noticed them acting off, they would've noticed. It isn't something you can time release to start when you want to, most people start feeling the effects in about 15 minutes. And yet hours later they left the White's house and made two stops on the way home and then proceeded with getting the kids to bed, Patsy doing some more packing, etc. They have never made mention of feeling funny or extremely tired. Even they, who ended up pointing fingers of suspicion at the White's have never suggested maybe he spiked their drinks.

 

[Ponytale]

She wrapped presents in the basement, but not in the wine cellar.

Yes, my mistake. Thank you!

 

[Ponytale]

Also, there was JonBenet's blood found on the blanket and the nightgown. The nightgown actually contained the majority of the blood that was found at the scene. This points to those items not having been pulled out of the dryer as one of the last things done that night / morning.

Yes, I have read about that. I have seen the photos of the night gown but the blood stains do not appear visible to the eye(?). Do you know if they saw those blood spots with the UV light or were they visible just by looking? Assuming that the blanket and the nightgown were actually washed before, it would explain why we can not see the actual blood spots.

Edited: Ok, I understand that in the photo of her nightgown taken into the evidence the blood spots are cut out, that's why we can not see them. I suppose a photograph with them on is not published. At least I do not remember seeing one with actual blood spots.

 

[ShadyLady]

PR did sleep in what was called Melinda's bedroom (which later became JonBenet's) when she was undergoing treatment. She was very immunocompromised so it made sense for her to be as isolated as possible.

We do not know for a fact that the blanket (and nightgown) were left in the dryer. The housekeeper guessed that may have been the case based upon seeing pictures of JonBenet's bed. She noticed that the sheets were different from the ones she had last made the bed with which was on 12/23. So she surmised that JonBenet had wet the bed again (by that time it was a nightly occurrence) and that Patsy had changed them. JonBenet always slept with that blanket, so it always got washed when the sheets had to be washed. Given that it was her favorite that she always slept with, it seems likely that Patsy would've washed and dried it for JB so she could have it. Also, there was JonBenet's blood found on the blanket and the nightgown. The nightgown actually contained the majority of the blood that was found at the scene. This points to those items not having been pulled out of the dryer as one of the last things done that night / morning.

But, iirc JBR was not dressed in nightgown, why couldn't it have been pulled out of the dryer that night a long with the blanket? What could have been the point of the nightgown even being there, if not by accident when she was wrapped up in the blanket?

I don't think anyone has proven where JBR was actually killed. Personally, I have come to the conclusion it was not an accident. But, some kind of rage.