Father says DNA could solve one of country’s biggest murder mysteries: Who killed JonBenét Ramsey

[Chimera]

You can find a really good summary of reasons so many lean away from IDI theories if you look up « A Rebuttal of Ramsey Misinformation » on Bitchute, including the RN.https://www.bitchute.com/video/0dik5Yb0g0mS/

Thanks !
I'll look it up.

 

[Chypre]

The Grand Jury could have issued “no true bill”
They did not. Instead they issued the most serious of charges in connection with murder in the first degree to John and Patsy Ramsey.
That is public record,

As ACCESSORIES to murder in the first degree. <modsnip> That leaves open who the killer is. As in the jury did not put themselves in a position to say it was definitely the Ramseys or another person, but the Ramseys PROBABLY involved. NOT definitely. I think they did leave open a loophole for it to be a random person, but the Ramseys failed to protect. The Ramseys are not even there to face their accusers. That is why the results are supposed to be secret.

YES, the decision not to bring forth the bills was done in a sneaky way, but they have to play the long game.

When I read your posts about the grand jury, I read it as you value the grand jury as a full trial because of the POTENTIAL for what is there to be furthered into full justice. But right now those bills and testimony are inventoried. They are only worth what they are separately for now, and if you don't collect EVIDENCE (to prove or disclaim) there is no added value.

 

[GRT]

John Bennet Ramsey.
Just keep in mind that here is a man who publicly stated the real crime was how he was being prosecuted (paraphrased)
Here is a man who authored a book about the murder of his six year old child titled it:”Death of Innocence” but that title referred to him not the death of his innocent six year old daughter.
John Ramsey is a world class narcissist. IMO. World class.

Incorrectly paraphrased, at that.

And no, that's not what the title referred to. I'm always fascinated by those who get locked into a narrative and then try to fit outsized facts into that narrative.

John Ramsey strikes me as a bit of a narcissist as well, but that doesn't translate into being a murderer. His book, which isn't especially well-written, is a timeline from the day of the murder onward. Throughout the book, he returns to special memories of JonBenet and the things she did. He talks about his grief over losing his child hundreds of times, and it's written from two perspectives, both his and Patsy's.

 

[GRT]

A statement
“The indictments are irrelevant”
Is a rather large statement that says much more than the weight of its words.
That is saying those jurors who spent 13 months combing over testimony and evidence are “irrelevant” The witnesses were “irrelevant” The pursuit of justice is “irrelevant”
That Grand Jury could have issued “no true bills”
But they didn’t. They issued four damming indictments, two each, to John and Patsy Ramsey holding them responsible for the murder of their six year old child. That is public record.
MOO

Sorry. True bills are not verdicts. And the GJ indictments did NOT suggest the Ramseys were guilty of murder. Child abuse (by letting someone else abuse their child) and accessory because they allowed their child to be put in that position. But no. Not murder.

And, the prosecutor said there was not enough evidence to convict.

GJ's almost always hand down some sort of true bill, and in the vast majority of cases, those defendants never go to trial.

 

[FMB]

Incorrectly paraphrased, at that.

And no, that's not what the title referred to. I'm always fascinated by those who get locked into a narrative and then try to fit outsized facts into that narrative.

John Ramsey strikes me as a bit of a narcissist as well, but that doesn't translate into being a murderer. His book, which isn't especially well-written, is a timeline from the day of the murder onward. Throughout the book, he returns to special memories of JonBenet and the things she did. He talks about his grief over losing his child hundreds of times, and it's written from two perspectives, both his and Patsy's.

" You know the real story here is not that a child was murdered. The real story here is what was done to us by an unjust system.” That's the exact quote by John Ramsey.

Yes, they plastered a picture of themselves on the cover of their book about the death of their daughter.
Many parents including myself would not want to profit off the death of their child....

 

[FMB]

Sorry. True bills are not verdicts. And the GJ indictments did NOT suggest the Ramseys were guilty of murder. Child abuse (by letting someone else abuse their child) and accessory because they allowed their child to be put in that position. But no. Not murder.

And, the prosecutor said there was not enough evidence to convict.

GJ's almost always hand down some sort of true bill, and in the vast majority of cases, those defendants never go to trial.

The vast majority of GJ indictments are indeed prosecuted and go to trial. Its unprecedented that a True Bill goes unsigned and not prosecuted. This case was an outlier and total abuse of process.

 

[GRT]

" You know the real story here is not that a child was murdered. The real story here is what was done to us by an unjust system.” That's the exact quote by John Ramsey.

That was from Dr. Phil. And, what were the comments before that so we can put it in perspective?

Yes, they plastered a picture of themselves on the cover of their book about the death of their daughter.
Many parents including myself would not want to profit off the death of their child....

I wouldn't want to profit either. Neither did the Ramseys. All proceeds from that book went to a foundation in JonBenet's name to fund child safety initiatives.

 

[GRT]

The vast majority of GJ indictments are indeed prosecuted and go to trial. Its unprecedented that a True Bill goes unsigned and not prosecuted. This case was an outlier and total abuse of process.

I think it's about 5% that actually goes to trial. A large number are settled via plea bargaining, and the rest are never charged because the prosecutor doesn't think he can convict.

 

[Chypre]

DBM

 

[FergusMcDuck]

The Grand Jury could have issued “no true bill”
They did not. Instead they issued the most serious of charges in connection with murder in the first degree to John and Patsy Ramsey.
That is public record,

The Grand Jury did as much for fourteen of eighteen charges. The evidence didn't even reach the lower burden of proof.

A statement
“The indictments are irrelevant”
Is a rather large statement that says much more than the weight of its words.
That is saying those jurors who spent 13 months combing over testimony and evidence are “irrelevant” The witnesses were “irrelevant” The pursuit of justice is “irrelevant”

That's ridiculous. Justice isn't determined on a set outcome. The Grand Jury had an outcome. Fourteen charges didn't reach probable cause, four did, but didn't reach beyond reasonable doubt. That's what the legal system reached, and it's not worthless.

For the Ramseys the indictments are meaningless because the legal system failed to back them up with enough evidence.

That Grand Jury could have issued “no true bills”
But they didn’t. They issued four damming indictments, two each, to John and Patsy Ramsey holding them responsible for the murder of their six year old child. That is public record.
MOO

They issued four lesser charges that would utterly fail in a trial. They knew it, the prosecutors knew it

 

[GRT]

Yes, they plastered a picture of themselves on the cover of their book about the death of their daughter.

Yes they did. That's not something I would have done but JonBenet's photo was also on the cover. I think that was just poor taste on their part. But, here's an image from page 388 in their book:

 

[FergusMcDuck]

The vast majority of GJ indictments are indeed prosecuted and go to trial. Its unprecedented that a True Bill goes unsigned and not prosecuted. This case was an outlier and total abuse of process.

Actual prosecutors who were involved, like Mitch Morrissey, disagree that it was abuse of process.

 

[FMB]

Actual prosecutors who were involved, like Mitch Morrissey, disagree that it was abuse of process.

And many legal experts familiar with the case felt it was a total abuse of process .

 

[AddieBoo]

The Grand Jury did as much for fourteen of eighteen charges. The evidence didn't even reach the lower burden of proof.



That's ridiculous. Justice isn't determined on a set outcome. The Grand Jury had an outcome. Fourteen charges didn't reach probable cause, four did, but didn't reach beyond reasonable doubt. That's what the legal system reached, and it's not worthless.

For the Ramseys the indictments are meaningless because the legal system failed to back them up with enough evidence.



They issued four lesser charges that would utterly fail in a trial. They knew it, the prosecutors knew it

These four indictments stand as public record.

The Grand Jury could have issued “no true bill”
They did not.
These four indictments are what has been made public. They also may include other information the GJ based these indictments on. But everything is sealed.

Including the testimony of Fleet White.

Who, for years has tried to make available, his GJ testimony to the public.

What was Fleet White’s testimony, and why is John Ramsey so afraid of Fleet White?
MOO

 

[FMB]

The Grand Jury did as much for fourteen of eighteen charges. The evidence didn't even reach the lower burden of proof.



That's ridiculous. Justice isn't determined on a set outcome. The Grand Jury had an outcome. Fourteen charges didn't reach probable cause, four did, but didn't reach beyond reasonable doubt. That's what the legal system reached, and it's not worthless.

For the Ramseys the indictments are meaningless because the legal system failed to back them up with enough evidence.



They issued four lesser charges that would utterly fail in a trial. They knew it, the prosecutors knew it

They issued True Bills on charges they thought could be reasonably met at Trial..... They didnt need to indict on all 18 charges....they indicted on 4 very serious charges.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

And many legal experts familiar with the case felt it was a total abuse of process .

Not the ones who were actually involved.

Who are these experts, by the way?

 

[AddieBoo]

Yes they did. That's not something I would have done but JonBenet's photo was also on the cover. I think that was just poor taste on their part. But, here's an image from page 388 in their book:

View attachment 557805

The photo-op with Patsy drapped over her daughter’s grave was….
really something alright…

 

[cenazoic]

Interesting overview of the different burdens of proof. I think this makes it evident that probable cause, which is the minimum level the grand jury is required to meet in order to file an indictment (true bill), is pretty far away from the ‘beyond a reasonable doubt” burden required for a successful criminal prosecution, imo.

Legal Standards of Proof

Evidentiary Standards: From Reasonable Suspicion to Beyond Reasonable Doubt

www.nolo.com

 

[FergusMcDuck]

These four indictments stand as public record.

And mean absolutely nothing regarding the guilt of the Ramseys.

The Grand Jury could have issued “no true bill”
They did not.

They failed to issue true bills for fourteen of eighteen charges.

These four indictments are what has been made public. They also may include other information the GJ based these indictments on. But everything is sealed.

The charges they didn't have evidence for are still sealed, yes. John Ramsey has requested they beade public as well.

Including the testimony of Fleet White.

I doubt anyone's concerned about the contents of that testimony.

Who, for years has tried to make available, his GJ testimony to the public.

He and John Ramsey.

What was Fleet White’s testimony, and why is John Ramsey so afraid of Fleet White?
MOO

He isn't.

 

[GRT]

The photo-op with Patsy drapped over her daughter’s grave was….
really something alright…

Yeah, some parents are weird that way -- they visit their dead children's graves.