FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #3

[leftcoast]

Thanks UK for the compliment. I just want this case solved, whatever it takes. I wouldn't rule out anything.

As for the picture. Yes, "F" on that diagram is JK's condo site, Mosaic. You can see how close it actually is from HOTG. Supposedly, there is actually a bus that runs along that street, with a stop by HOTG. Yet, the POI decided he would rather walk. I wonder why?

If you blow up the picture of HOTG, you get a good look at the poolhouse, the pool, and the two gates in which one would enter the pool area. On top of the poolhouse, just underneath the eaves, are the two camera's, which in my opinion, are both pointed at the poolgates, that took the infamous picture of the POI.

You can see what a sharp angle it would be for that second camera, if it was pointed at the second gate, for it to pick up JK's car being parked. Remember, there is also a building next to the poolhouse, which may block some of the view. It all depends on the angle of the camera, and if JK's car was parked in the second or third spot (some say second, I think it was parked in the third spot).

left

 

[Myserty64]

I don't think a perpetrator would be waiting around for a bus. Not if public transport in Orlando is anything like it is where I live. There could also be a lot of witnesses on a bus and passengers tend to give those boarding a good 'once over.'
I wonder if the POI parked his own car at Huntington or very close by and walked to Mosaic before the abduction? When he was photographed at Huntington he could have been walking to his escape vehicle. As you say anything is possible.

F is not where Mosaic Condos are, Mosaic is opposite the Mall at Millenia.
I believe most of the Google Earth photos are a bit out of date as can be expected.
I don't know what F is supposed to indicate unless it is mistakingly placed.

 

[Myserty64]

There were a lot of registered sex offenders living around the area of both Mosaic and Huntington at the time of the abduction. This is something that has been forgotten as the months have gone by. One would think that most of these people would have been questioned by police.

Does anyone remember the 'creepy' guy that approached one of the ladies living at Mosaic. He did this at the gym at Mosaic and it had a very negative effect on her as she was totally spooked. I have been trying to find this report.

 

[hoppyfrog]

DNA

I don't know too much about extracting DNA but I understand it can be taken from a strand of hair (with the root) or a skin cell.
We are continually shedding hair and skin so there must have been some of the POI's skin or hair in the car.

I watched a recent National Geographic channel show about training tracking dogs. It stated that each of us sheds dead skin cells at the rate of 40,000 per minute. The scent from those cells is what enables dogs to track. Pretty amazing, IMO!

Hoppy

 

[Myserty64]

Boy that is amazing and thanks for the info!

The Chevy Malibu must have had enough evidence for forensic testing.

 

[hoppyfrog]

Boy that is amazing and thanks for the info!

The Chevy Malibu must have had enough evidence for forensic testing.

I simply don't know, however, if dead skin cells can yield any or enough DNA for testing. Anyone know? Then there's the problem of having dead skin cells from many different people in the car, like anyone who ever rode in it.

Hoppy

 

[leftcoast]

F is not where Mosaic Condos are, Mosaic is opposite the Mall at Millenia.
I believe most of the Google Earth photos are a bit out of date as can be expected.
I don't know what F is supposed to indicate unless it is mistakingly placed.

UK: Actually, Mosaic is at 3573 Conroy Road, which according to Mapquest is about 600 feet west of point "F" on that diagram. If you look at the map, Mosaic is even with a street called "Moxie" boulevard. The Mosaci complex doesn't appear to be on that Google Earth shot. Maybe, for simplicity, the maker of the map used the closest intersectin to Mosaic, since Mosaic isn't shown on the map anyway. Who knows. But, the major theme is that "F" is in the general area of where Mosaic is located, which is the main purpose of the map.

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[leftcoast]

There were a lot of registered sex offenders living around the area of both Mosaic and Huntington at the time of the abduction. This is something that has been forgotten as the months have gone by. One would think that most of these people would have been questioned by police.

Does anyone remember the 'creepy' guy that approached one of the ladies living at Mosaic. He did this at the gym at Mosaic and it had a very negative effect on her as she was totally spooked. I have been trying to find this report.

That guy was identified by police and eliminated as a suspect. Turns out he had a legitimate job fixing something at the gym.

left

 

[leftcoast]

About DNA

I seriously doubt that LE has DNA from the POI. While possible, it is my belief we would have heard about people being swabbed by LE, and I believe this case would be much further along.

Sure, you can get DNA from hair follicles, saliva on a bottle, swabbing the mouth, blood, sperm, etc., but, I have never heard of getting DNA from a skin cell found in a car. I'm not an expert, but, if someone knows more.

Even if a potential perp. DNA is found in the car, he may be a friend of JK's, a relative, co-worker, etc. and may be able to explain away a hair follicle found. The best evidence would be any evidence where LE knows for 100% certainty that the perp. left his DNA, such as blood, and bodily fluids, etc.

I still say that prints in the car are 100 times more likely than finding DNA in that car and saying it is from the perp.



left.

 

[leftcoast]

I don't think a perpetrator would be waiting around for a bus. Not if public transport in Orlando is anything like it is where I live. There could also be a lot of witnesses on a bus and passengers tend to give those boarding a good 'once over.'
I wonder if the POI parked his own car at Huntington or very close by and walked to Mosaic before the abduction? When he was photographed at Huntington he could have been walking to his escape vehicle. As you say anything is possible.

Mystery:
When I joked about why "didn't the POi take the bus", it was just that, a joke.

I seriously doubt that the POI parked his car at the HOTG, and then committed the crime. Why?

- Because I believe it would be foolish to park your own car next to where you are dropping a car that is stolen. Potential witnesses.

- Also, how do we know that the POI didn't try to abduct Jk on that MOnday, and she went straight to work from Rob's? Thus, he would have had to walk one mile each way, not to mention, risk people seeing him.

- One would think that the route the police dog took would tell the canine officer if this was possible. for example, if the route is entirely on sidewalks, and through the woods, it would almost be impossible. In addition, one would think that the dog would be able to distinguish between the different scents, one scent earlier in the day before the crime, and another after potentially hurting JK, then driving her car, and exiting her car. I will admit, I am not a expert on tracking, it is just my opinion.

I still think you have a point, but, you would think the POI would park his car closer to jk's, if not at Jk's condo. this way, if she wasn't home, or if witnesses were around, etc, he wouldn't have to walk another mile back to his car.

Like I have learned through looking at another cold case, you really gain so much intelligence by visiting crime scenes. Hence, without visiting Mosiac, and HOTG, and walking the route the POI supposedly took, it is hard to visualize the entire thing. That is why the excellent detectives, will visit each crime scene, and walk through the entire scene, and the steps that the perp. took , to gain what the perp. saw, and how well planned the crime was.

I certainly hope that the detectives assigned to this case, took the time to walk the same route the POI took, at the same time, and the same day of the week, in order to gain intelligence, and even possibly find a witness or two. We are creatures of habit, and you never know who goes for a daily, weekly, etc, walk, run, bicycle ride through a certain area, until you wear out shoe leather and start asking questions. Of course, now, a year later, it is a bit late.

left

 

[Myserty64]

Leftcoast,

I was jesting about the buses too! I was almost going to add I could imagine the bloodhound waiting at the bus stop to board the bus the POI caught!

Thanks for your thoughts on DNA. It seems they might not have got anything from the car at all.
A long time ago there was a rumor that all they got from the car in the way of fingerprints was a 'partial print.' I hope they have more than that.

Also thanks for the info on the worker from the gym. I wasn't aware he had been cleared. I know detectives interviewed the young lady who made the claim. She was working out alone on the night he was there and she was a visitor from outside Orlando. She must have got a fright because she was reported saying this:

'she excused herself to go in to the cardio room and then bolted out of the building.'

Apparently the F on the map marks Oakwood Apartments. I must say it took me a long while to make much sense of this map because many landmarks were labeled but not Mosaic.
I still wonder precisely where Mosaic is. I now assume it is the cleared area across from the mall. This area shows what looks to be a future lake in the corner near Conroy Road.
Why does it look like it does in the aerial shot?

 

[leftcoast]

Mystery: You are welcome. I know for 100% fact that a detective identified that guy from the gym.

As for where Mosaic is, 3573 Conroy Road, when put into Mapquest, does show it is 600 feet west of S. John Young Parkway, on Conroy. It is even with Moxie Blvd., according to Mapquest. I believe it is the grazed area on the googlearth shot, just north of Conroy, even with Moxie. In addition, according to Mapquest, the distance from Mosaic to HOTG is 1.1 miles. Just enough distance to divert attention, but, yet close enough to walk, at least in my opinion.

When the Kesse's stood on the corner for three months, holding a sign of their missing daughter, it just broke my heart. It made me think what dirtbags we have in this world. Plus, it also told me that LE was not closing in on anyone. Otherwise, you would think that LE would tell the KEsse's that they know who did it, and they didn't need to stand on the corner any longer.

I still think that LE should have given everyone, and that includes family, friends, relatives, a lie detector test and ask for an alibi. That is SOP. Just because somebody is miles away when a car is dumped, doesn't necessarily mean that weren't involved in a crime, but, hired someone to clean up the mess. don't get me wrong, I don't suspect the Kesse's or Rob, but, it is just common sense to do this in all cases. Plus, a good question on the lie detector test could be if anybody has had their life threatened, owes anybody any money, etc. People normally don't hand out this information to police. Let's fact it, everybody has enemies. Some we know about, some we dont'.


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[UK Sleuth]

Cheers for the help on the map guys.

Again I agree with you left on the alibi's etc.

I think now is the point that anything LE know should be revealed its 14 months since JK vanished, it doesnt look like anyone is gonna come forward with new evidence, the case is cold.

What harm can it do?

The only way I can see a resolution now is the perp caught for another offence and matched from whatever they have from the car, prints probably.


Do you buy into the psychic thing or is it a load of BS?

Dont want to go off at a tangent but anything if it can be of help

Would LE use this sort of thing?

or would it be 'Just the facts Maam'

 

[leftcoast]

Hi UK

But, to be honest, I really dont' buy the psychic thing. We had a popular psychic in the US, Sylvia Brown, who recently ate crow. She predicted a boy, Shawn Hornbeck, was dead. He was recently found alive, four years after going missing. Now, was she just playing the odds, or did her psychic powers someone get static electricity and short out during her reading to Shawn's parents, who of course, began weeping, when told that Sylvia thought their boy was dead. Now, Sylvia charges 750.00 per reading. Talk about a lot of money.

Once I was in an elevator, and a woman told me she was a psychic. we started talking, and eventually, she asked me what floor I was getting off, in order for her to push the appropriate elevator button for me. My response was floor "10", but, I told her, you probably already knew that. Of course, she didn;t, and we both laughed. True, and corny, story.

Back to JK. UK, yes, it is time for LE and the Kesse's to admit this case is cold. If I hear we need one more piece of the puzzle, one more time, I am going to scream. We need the first piece of the puzzle, the rest will fall into place.

time for PLan B

Why is it in life when we are planning for our retirement, or going to have a major surgery, that the intelligent people seeek out a second opinion. Then, when someone who is loved by her parents more than life, goes missing, people are hesitant to ask for a second opinion? Is it because we are brought up to respect police, and to not question them? Call me a rebel, but, I think we owe it to ourselves to make our own decisions, our own mistakes. I've never ever heard a person say they were sorry that they spent an additional couple hundred dollars asking for a second opinion. I think the same should be true in this case. Show me the downside.


left

 

[Myserty64]

I agree with left on psychics and my feelings against them are most likely stronger.
I have nothing against them as individuals as they are most likely well meaning people (mostly).

One only has to check out the DOE network and other missing people sites to see there are plenty of cases for psychics to work on.
The Hoffa mystery is a good test too. Where is he?

When push comes to shove psychics don't produce the answers despite what they claim themselves.

 

[Myserty64]

I agree with left once again.
In an investigation such as this the police start with with those closest to the victim (Jennifer) and work out from there.
We know one polygraph test was done but no more information has been forthcoming.
That to my mind has been the trouble with this case; no information.

Jennifer had a land line into her condo and when the head detective was asked if there were any calls on this after 10pm on the Monday night he answered they wouldn't be releasing that information.

Jennifer always called Rob on her cell phone in the morning but we know that didn't happen that fateful morning. Was her phone even turned on? Police should know that because cell phones send out pings.

I have tried to vizualise how Jennifer was overpowered so easily in daylight. It is reported she was very aware of her surroundings and she was security concious. It seems she was fit and reasonably tall. I have read that she carried Mace as well.
I feel the perpetrator must have had a weapon but did he take her in her car?
Where would she have ridden in her car; the front passenger seat? Try as I might I just can't see it happening that way, but then I can't offer much in the way of alternatives except she was forced into his vehicle.

All I can say is this case is real headache material.

 

[leftcoast]

Mystery" I agree, I don't see how not sharing information with the public is going to help solve this crime.

Please explain to me how not releasing if JK had any phone calls on her landline is going to jeopardize this case? It is this kind of stuff that turns people off from helping. If the perp. has an M.O., releasing this information could be vital to solving this crime, not to mention, the safety of women who live in Orlando.

I still get the feeling that LE has a picture from a road surveillance camera of JK in the car with the perp., if you read between the lines.

In the majority of cases, the perp. usually holds a weapon on the victim, and makes the victim drive. I have always been suspicious of JK's car, and how far back, and reclined her passenger front seat appears to be. It may be nothing. But, it kind of fits.

I wouldn't rule out that JK gave a friend a ride, and the friend turned on JK as a possible scenario in this case. It would explain why there is no evidence, no fight, and how the POI got a jump on JK. You know, the neighbor whose car wouldn't start trick.

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[UK Sleuth]

In general I am a sceptical person however I do feel there is something to psychics, remote viewings etc.

I think we all have some ability in this area, 6th sense, intuition call it what you will.

Some people are just able to tap into something and 'see things' that the rest of us are too inhibited to experience.

My Mother has had a few experiences llike this in her life.

Once years ago she dreamt about paintings being stolen, woke up and told her mother, the news later reported a massive art theft including Van Gogh paintings, she hadnt seen the news and had no idea.

On another occasion she called a friend out of the blue because she was concerned, she didnt know why she was but just had a bad feeling, her call awoke her friend who then discovered her kitchen was on fire, she hadnt turned her grill off , had eaten and fallen asleep.

Did she save her life? Possibly but to this day she doesnt know why she felt the need to ring her.

I dont believe every psychic is genuine and there is no doubt there are con artists out there but that doesnt put me off believing that there are genuine people out there who have psychic experiences.

Its about being able to experience it, hold it and recall it.

The last RV on Brians site says JK is 'miles away from last seen, palm bay'

There is palm bay in Florida about 80 miles away, also there is a 'Palm Bay Ct' in Orlando a few miles from Mosaic.

If I were the Kesses I would investigate any possibility like this, theres naff all else to go on.

There are more RVs that are wrong than right on Brians site by the looks of things but a lot of the ones that are right seem to be scarily accurate.

Again Im not saying I totally buy the idea of psychics but I wouldnt dismiss it.

 

[leftcoast]

Uk

IF I were the Kesse's and a psychic had an idea or whatever, and gave me a specific address, or person, I would absolutely check it out.

However, if it is a vague clue, how can you check it out? In this case, I think Brian needs to get a bit more specific. that's all.

I wouldn't totally discount psychics. Some LE do employ psychics, but, only with specific information.

AS for people who call things, it is possible. But, there are some people, who are constantly saying, don't get on that plane. Well, if you say that 1,000 times, and on one occasion the plane has problems, are you a psychic, or did the laws of probability eventually play a part?

LIke I said, I would listen to anything. But, I have heard reports that countless psychics have contacted the Kesse's looking for money. to me, that is outrageous. If you have that ability, find her, and give the Kesse's and police the information. And of course, now these psychics go on the list as possible suspects. that is how it works in the US.

Another thought, if the psychics can detect certain things, why didn't they warn the Kesse's that JK was in danger? or is their power only in finding high-profile missing people?

left

to summarize: if Brian can give us the name of the perp. and the address of where JK is being held, and she is found safe, and brian had nothing to do with the crime, I will be Brian's number one fan forever. Until then, I remain skeptical.

 

[Myserty64]

I would like someone to list one homicide case here that was solved by a psychic. I don't want a case that a psychic claims to have solved but rather one that all levels of police and the judicial system agrees was solved due to the result of a psychic's 'vision.'

Forget Hoffa, what about Jennifer Kesse. This case is reasonably fresh so a top notch pyschic should be able to see something.
It appears of all the thousands of psychics in the USA alone, not one can even get a glimpse of what happened to Jennifer.

Why?