FL - Multiple Fatalities at Mass Shooting at Madden Gaming Tournament, Jacksonville, 26 Aug 2018

[EuTuCroquet?]

There is no cure-all for many illnesses and diseases. Some things take a lifetime of care. So asking “Well, what if x doesn’t work? What then?” is exactly why this discussion can get so heated sometimes, imo.

There isn’t always a clear-cut “right” answer. Unfortunately. Treatment isn’t the same for everybody.

I mean, similarly, if a husband helped pay for his wife’s inpatient treatment for alcoholism, but she eventually relapsed into her disease, does the husband demand their money back? Maybe. Does he get it back? Almost never. That’s just not how treating longterm illnesses works.

This is one of those things. Mental illness is like illness of any other part of the body. For some, the disease is constant (juvenile diabetes) and lifelong. For others, it’s curable (strep throat). For still others, their disease always has a potential to relapse (Multiple Sclerosis, etc.). There just isn’t a perfect answer that fits everyone, except for doing better.

We can do better. I believe that.

You mentioned Katz fell between the cracks. I fully agree. We can do more as humans to narrow that gap for each other.

Here’s more on the Baker Act:
Florida Mental Health Act - Wikipedia

rsff

I have no idea about the Baker Act. I'm a Brit. But we probably have very similar legislation here in the UK.

 

[bluesneakers]

You mentioned Katz fell between the cracks. I fully agree. We can do more as humans to narrow that gap for each other.

rsff

Narrow the gap! Well said. It's not about drawing a line - who gets to be free and who has to be locked up. We need to make living on the outside easier and more doable for people who are ill. I mean, look how many homeless people have mental illnesses. Look how many people in the prison system have mental illnesses. We can do better for each other.

rsff

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Narrow the gap! Well said. It's not about drawing a line - who gets to be free and who has to be locked up. We need to make living on the outside easier and more doable for people who are ill. I mean, look how many homeless people have mental illnesses. Look how many people in the prison system have mental illnesses. We can do better for each other.

rsff

The technology isn't there, though. The only meds that have a high rate of success is basically the chemical lobotamy meds. We don't have cures for mental illness, we have hit and miss treatment via medications that can have nasty side affects. It seems we can lock the up, surgically lobotamize them, or medically lobotamize them, but we don't seem able to cure them. Also, the mentally ill have rights, and they cannot be forced into treatment.

 

[MarziPanda]

I want to add something for the user who seemed to think that professional gamers only earn money through prize money and therefore it can never be steady income - that isn't true. Most professionals get sponsorship deals and therefore do get a stable income. Plus, streaming gives you a fairly steady income. At his level it was possible that Katz was earning sponsorship deals, especially with winning last year. On the other hand, his lack of social skills may have counted against him there.

 

[bluesneakers]

The technology isn't there, though. The only meds that have a high rate of success is basically the chemical lobotamy meds. We don't have cures for mental illness, we have hit and miss treatment via medications that can have nasty side affects. It seems we can lock the up, surgically lobotamize them, or medically lobotamize them, but we don't seem able to cure them. Also, the mentally ill have rights, and they cannot be forced into treatment.

Um, WHAT. Many, many people with mental illnesses are being successfully treated with medications and not "chemical lobotomies." (What an offensive suggestion!) They live productive, fulfilling lives and are valued members of society. The science IS there. Our problem is getting the treatment and support to the people who need it.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

I want to add something for the user who seemed to think that professional gamers only earn money through prize money and therefore it can never be steady income - that isn't true. Most professionals get sponsorship deals and therefore do get a stable income. Plus, streaming gives you a fairly steady income. At his level it was possible that Katz was earning sponsorship deals, especially with winning last year. On the other hand, his lack of social skills may have counted against him there.

Agreed. Thank you for sharing this. There is big money to be made. The gaming industry is huge. It’s practically ubiquitous.

People have careers playing chess, poker, snooker, extreme sports, skateboarding, even professional eating (as I learned in this very thread!).

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Um, WHAT. Many, many people with mental illnesses are being successfully treated with medications and not "chemical lobotomies." (What an offensive suggestion!) They live productive, fulfilling lives and are valued members of society. The science IS there. Our problem is getting the treatment and support to the people who need it.

I'm afraid I know too many people who are not, many of whom with insurance. We don't have the technology, we can help SOME people, but not the majority of people.
Drugging people is the best therapy we have, and that isn't good for patients. By the way, medications like thorozine are chemical lobotomies. What's offensive is the fact tha people are being subjected to chemical lobotomies. You might want to research lobotomy, I gather it had some success but most people didn't respond well.

The Surprising History of the Lobotomy
Frequently Asked Questions About Lobotomies
And here is one about chemical lobotomies
Chemical Lobotomy

 

[CARIIS]

I don't know either, but my thoughts have been similar to yours. I've also wondered if he worked or if his parents were paying his living expenses. Maybe his parents were encouraging him to finish college and told him after this tournament you go back to college or your on your own. When he didn't qualify to continue onto the next level in the tournament he completely lost it.

I kinda think the parents were fully aware their child was ill. There are maladies that are not repairable.

In these situations s similar theme comes up --long term treatment.

It does not exist in America. In any meaningful manner.

There are no beds.

Buy a vest ...............sorry

 

[bears10]

I'm afraid I know too many people who are not, many of whom with insurance. We don't have the technology, we can help SOME people, but not the majority of people.
Drugging people is the best therapy we have, and that isn't good for patients. By the way, medications like thorozine are chemical lobotomies. What's offensive is the fact tha people are being subjected to chemical lobotomies. You might want to research lobotomy, I gather it had some success but most people didn't respond well.

The Surprising History of the Lobotomy
Frequently Asked Questions About Lobotomies
And here is one about chemical lobotomies
Chemical Lobotomy

No just no. The things you are saying are incredibly offensive. I feel like im listening to my very old school dad who thinks depression is a choice. Smdh

 

[CARIIS]

I argee. We can maybe get better at recognizing warning signs if there are any. Other than that I don't think it's something that can be fixed. However, I think society as a whole could step up with parenting, morals, values, nurturing, being aware and so much more. I don't know what the answers are, but I pray for a better future.

Money.

Imagine if we built long term residential centers - instead of prisons.

Cool huh?

 

[flourish]

Group home, assisted living or insane asylum.

Whoa. Please do not equate the first two with the third. And insane asylums? Checks year on calendar.

 

[bluesneakers]

I'm afraid I know too many people who are not, many of whom with insurance. We don't have the technology, we can help SOME people, but not the majority of people.
Drugging people is the best therapy we have, and that isn't good for patients. By the way, medications like thorozine are chemical lobotomies. What's offensive is the fact tha people are being subjected to chemical lobotomies. You might want to research lobotomy, I gather it had some success but most people didn't respond well.

You know many, but do you know the facts and figures? What you're saying is irresponsible and exactly the sort of comment that worsens stigma (which in turn affects the willingness of people to seek treatment).

From NAMI:
"The best treatments for serious mental illnesses today are highly effective; between 70 and 90 percent of individuals have significant reduction of symptoms and improved quality of life with a combination of pharmacological and psychosocial treatments and supports."

"Mental illnesses are real, common, treatable diseases. According to the National Advisory Mental Health Council, the treatment success rate for bipolar disorder is a remarkable 80 percent. The recovery rates for other serious mental illnesses follow suit: major depression (65‐80 percent), schizophrenia (60 percent) and addiction (70 percent). "

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

I'm afraid I know too many people who are not, many of whom with insurance. We don't have the technology, we can help SOME people, but not the majority of people.
Drugging people is the best therapy we have, and that isn't good for patients. By the way, medications like thorozine are chemical lobotomies. What's offensive is the fact tha people are being subjected to chemical lobotomies. You might want to research lobotomy, I gather it had some success but most people didn't respond well.

The Surprising History of the Lobotomy
Frequently Asked Questions About Lobotomies

“Drugging people” isn’t the best therapy we have. That’s a sweeping generalization, and maybe you intended it to be. Chemical lobotomies are almost never necessary or prescribed.

I think there’s a general tendency to lump all mental illness into the “babbling violent idiot” trope, which is grossly stigmatizing and inaccurate.

Talk therapy is generally effective. In fact, “best practice” recommends cognitive behavioral therapy, or talk therapy and medication, not just medication. The vast majority of everyday mental illness treatment is in this realm.

And there’s another important point that keeps being overlooked, imo. To undergo psychiatric treatment requiring medical intervention (especially if it’s chronic or severe), a patient is usually required to be treated by a psychiatrist. They’re the ones who prescribe the meds in those instances, not a DO or PCD.

Psychotherapy | NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness

It seems like David Katz’s treatment(s) included multiple methods, especially if he was hospitalized for any length of time. That’s just being realistic, imo.

 

[bluesneakers]

And yes, it's offensive to suggest someone with autism or depression or ADHD be treated with a "chemical lobotomy."

 

[bears10]

And yes, it's offensive to suggest someone with autism or depression or ADHD be treated with a "chemical lobotomy."

I take medication for ADHD and am lol at the term “chemical lobotomy”. Whaaat?

 

[flourish]

Very true and add to that the "shame" factor. It's not considered an illness, it's considered a weakness by many people. That makes treatment that much harder.

The technology isn't there, though. The only meds that have a high rate of success is basically the chemical lobotamy meds. We don't have cures for mental illness, we have hit and miss treatment via medications that can have nasty side affects. It seems we can lock the up, surgically lobotamize them, or medically lobotamize them, but we don't seem able to cure them. Also, the mentally ill have rights, and they cannot be forced into treatment.

A friendly comment... Your second comment does exactly what you're talking about in the first. Lobotomy is a term which currently has a very negative connotation. Hope that helps.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

And yes, it's offensive to suggest someone with autism or depression or ADHD be treated with a "chemical lobotomy."

You might want to read my post. I was complaining about it, not suggesting. Chemical lobotomy is a reality. Here is a psychiatric take on it
Chemical Lobotomy
If you don't like the term, I suggest you take it up with the American Psychiatric Association, the APA.

 

[Gardenista]

I take medication for ADHD and am lol at the term “chemical lobotomy”. Whaaat?

Read the articles about DKs behavior. We're not talking ADHD

 

[glamourkitty1922]

A friendly comment... Your second comment does exactly what you're talking about in the second. Lobotomy is a term which currently has a very negative connotation. Hope that helps.

If you look at my links, you will see that the psychiatric community is worried about the chemical lobotomy problem. It is a real term for a real problem. If you don't like the term, then take it up with the APA. Personally, I don't like medical abuse to be hidden because a word may offend someone.

 

[flourish]

There are many types of treatment for the many kinds of illnesses. Some treatments are pharmaceutical. Others not. Wide brushes aren't accurate nor helpful.