France - Explosions and shooting in Paris, 13 November 2015 #2

[Brightbird]

The video of the alley and people fleeing and dead, I watched it the other day. And the person hanging out of the window, was a pregnant lady!! omg! I remember thinking how terrified you must be to hang out of the window, and now knowing it was a pregnant lady just makes me feel even worse. Cannot imagine the terror And Sebastian, I saw him pull her up, and he had been a hostage. Reading the stories behind what we have seen, it doesn't do it justice. Horrific



I saw it on twitter yesterday when searching for something else, really wish I hadn't seen it Unreal

The video of the alley is just the worst. I felt like that should have been kept private for the living people in that video, hanging out windows and dragging bodies and such. I don't think it's right when people have their darkest moments shared worldwide.

 

[dotr]

This is quite an extraordinary man, imo.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/nahlah-ayed-patrick-pelloux-paris-doctor-1.3321691

'I'm a medical soldier,' says doctor who treated victims at 2 Paris terror attacks
Dr. Patrick Pelloux was a first responder at both Charlie Hebdo and Paris civilian attacks"

"Dr. Patrick Pelloux is an expert in injuries both physical and psychological.

His experience as an emergency room doctor certainly contributed to that dexterity. But it was the attack on the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo back in January that made Dr. Pelloux an authority.

He was a writer for the magazine at the time, and could have easily been present at the news meeting that was underway when gunmen barged into the offices and fired at staff, many at point-blank range, killing 11 people.


Dr. Pelloux happened to be at another meeting, but was one of the first to arrive at the scene of the carnage — and to try to save the lives of colleagues he's known for years.

That was traumatic enough, but less than a year later, Dr. Pelloux was again on the triage front line last Friday as Paris coped with a far deadlier attack on civilians.

He has no doubt about what France is confronting.

"It is war," he says. "People were attacked with weapons of war everywhere in Paris. They were riddled by bullets, and terrorists blew themselves up in order to kill more people. They put bolts and pieces of metal in their jackets to hurt as many people as possible."

Dr. Pelloux says France and other countries must change how they train first responders to cope with what now appears to be an omnipresent threat."
rbbm.

 

[cottonweaver]

More breaking news - just details

Like it took the supermarket worker to call the German police today, leading to arrests, a Parisian local spotted the Clio abandoned for 3 days.

A woman whose husband works in Le Mont Cenis cafe in Place Albert Kahn in the ethnically mixed 18th district, opposite where the Cleo had been abandoned, said a local man had told police the car appeared suspicious two days before they came to remove it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...enbeek-suspects-Syria-Raqqa-bombing-live.html

and a discarded mobile

a mobile phone believed to have belonged to a suicide bomber has been found. Police say a message on the phone sent prior to the attack read, "OK, we're ready".

same source

In Belgium - heavy security presence all day

The Telegraph witnessed two columns of military troop carriers of at least 12 vehicles each heading toward Brussels on Tuesday evening.
Military police outriders were also seen escorting a German official vehicle toward Aachen in the hours after reports of several arrests linked to the Paris attacks.
Infantry soldiers are deployed across Brussels outside key installations, including the Dutch embassy.The official threat level was raised to level three on Tuesday..

same source as above
CNN also reports that the message was found on an encrypted app on this phone, found in a dustbin near the rock concert.

 

[cottonweaver]

This is quite an extraordinary man.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/nahlah-ayed-patrick-pelloux-paris-doctor-1.3321691

'I'm a medical soldier,' says doctor who treated victims at 2 Paris terror attacks
Dr. Patrick Pelloux was a first responder at both Charlie Hebdo and Paris civilian attacks"

I agree dotr, and from your link:

Dr. Pelloux waves off questions about his own trauma, especially in light of the recent deja vu. But he says he quit Charlie Hebdo precisely to get away from the constant reminders of the friends he lost.

And now it's happened again, just as he predicted.

Is he afraid? "Never fear. You can't be afraid," he says.

Sad, perhaps? "We don't have the time to be sad, we have to fight," he counters.

Surely angry then. He finally nods.

"Determined," he concludes.

"We are not heroes," Dr. Pelloux says gruffly. "We're at war, and I'm a medical soldier."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/nahlah-ayed-patrick-pelloux-paris-doctor-1.3321691

 

[cottonweaver]

why European jihadis are drawn to Belgium, written by a Belgian.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/17/terrorists-belgium-paris-attacks

ETA-worth summarising in fact ,the reasons in article;
1. strategic location in Europe to other attack targets
2. willing helpers in the capital
3.Molenbeek - perfect place to recruit, high poverty/youth unemployment, high number of Syrian fighters
4.There is a lack of local imams; most of the imams have been imported from abroad
5. very easy to buy illegal firearms, disjointed police authorities
6.small security apparatus of only 1000 staff
7." The disregard of the Belgian political world for intelligence and the lack of an intelligence culture have allowed terrorist groups to proliferate."

Belgium’s anti-terrorism organisation Ocad has a “consolidated list” of more than 800 people who are on the radar of the Belgian intelligence services in relation to foreign terrorist fighters. Yesterday, two well-informed sources within the Belgian security services independently confirmed to me that two of the Abdeslam brothers currently being investigated in relation to the Paris attacks and Bilal Hadfi, the suicide bomber at the Stade de France, were on that list. The question is why this information could not prevent the attacks in Paris. Standing Committee I, which controls the Belgian intelligence services on behalf of the government, has announced an official investigation

 

[cottonweaver]

Anonymous 'takes down 6000 Isil Twitter accounts" - 6 mins ago

After declaring war on Isil, Anonymous hackers now claim to have taken down more than 6000 Twitter accounts of supporters. But just like the actual war in Syria, history suggests the accounts will soon be replaced by news ones.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...enbeek-suspects-Syria-Raqqa-bombing-live.html

 

[Momoffourboys]

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/17/the-key-isis-targets-allies-want-to-destroy.html

The key ISIS targets allies want to destroy

 

[gia2]

The video of the alley is just the worst. I felt like that should have been kept private for the living people in that video, hanging out windows and dragging bodies and such. I don't think it's right when people have their darkest moments shared worldwide.

I saw that too and felt the same. It is absolutely harrowing. In particular, there is one person lying at the theatre doors and they are trying to sit up, signal for help and eventually (I think) bring out their mobile phone.
I later saw a photograph right above the scene where he lay. There are sheets covering multiple bodies and one person is getting police assistance (I think). I think he must have died. For some reason this person has haunted me most after the attacks. To see them struggle for life for so long after and no one comes to help (of course no one really could, he was right near the danger) just don't leave my mind.

There are a couple of big problems with this kind of video/photographs being released widely to the public.Firstly, the victim's families may see them and identify their loved one. I've seen photos where shoes (in particular) and other clothing items would mean a close friend or relative could identify it was their loved one lying there. Surely that would make the image of their suffering all the more vivid.
Secondly, I bet ISIS collect them all and enjoy looking at them. They've already taken far too much enjoyment and satisfaction at killing so many innocent people. They will be no doubt reading the news articles and loving hearing the awful accounts from survivors. To have images of victims to enjoy is just a horrible thought. You'd be horrified to learn these evil people were enjoying seeing your loved ones damaged body.

I suppose it would be impossible to censor it all, but it's just very graphic. When you know people will enjoy those images and photos it becomes all the more sickening.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I saw that too and felt the same. It is absolutely harrowing. In particular, there is one person lying at the theatre doors and they are trying to sit up, signal for help and eventually (I think) bring out their mobile phone.
I later saw a photograph right above the scene where he lay. There are sheets covering multiple bodies and one person is getting police assistance (I think). I think he must have died. For some reason this person has haunted me most after the attacks. To see them struggle for life for so long after and no one comes to help (of course no one really could, he was right near the danger) just don't leave my mind.

There are a couple of big problems with this kind of video/photographs being released widely to the public.Firstly, the victim's families may see them and identify their loved one. I've seen photos where shoes (in particular) and other clothing items would mean a close friend or relative could identify it was their loved one lying there. Surely that would make the image of their suffering all the more vivid.
Secondly, I bet ISIS collect them all and enjoy looking at them. They've already taken far too much enjoyment and satisfaction at killing so many innocent people. They will be no doubt reading the news articles and loving hearing the awful accounts from survivors. To have images of victims to enjoy is just a horrible thought. You'd be horrified to learn these evil people were enjoying seeing your loved ones damaged body.

I suppose it would be impossible to censor it all, but it's just very graphic. When you know people will enjoy those images and photos it becomes all the more sickening.

But on the other hand, people need to see the truth because with truth, comes knowledge. Reality is important.

 

[Fifth Avenue]

Such shameful thing to say. Even for a politician and for a .. Democrat. Thankfully he's out.

'ISIS not evil, doing what's best for community'

http://northiowatoday.com/2015/11/1...il-then-quits-race-for-minnesota-legislature/


Sent via Tapatalk

 

[Friday Fan]

Actually there are Palestinians in Jordan and Lebanon. I read up on it more when I came across this WP article (worth the read on the individual refugees) on the current refugees.


Story about a Syrian refugee in Lebanon
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/syrian-refugees/2013/12/02/downwardly-mobile/

A brother-in-law had found a day-labor job at a car dealership owned by a wealthy Palestinian man who had himself lived as a refugee. The Palestinian man told them about the vacant lot he owned.

He backed the old fish trailer onto the lot, and he gave the family a small Ford van so they could get around. He asked for no money in return.

“He’s been a refugee himself, so he knows what it is like,” Habib says.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_refugee_camps

Palestinian refugee camps:

Syria has 13 refugee camps and 499,189 registered refugees.
There are 12 refugee camps in Lebanon and 448,599 registered refugees.
There are 10 refugee camps in Jordan and 2,034,641 registered refugees.


https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/08/07/jordan-palestinians-escaping-syria-turned-away

The 44-page report, “Not Welcome: Jordan’s Treatment of Palestinians Escaping Syria,” is based on interviews with more than 30 people affected by the non-admission policy. Human Rights Watch also documented Jordan’s withdrawal of Jordanian citizenship from some Palestinians who had lived in Syria for many years and who have been detained or deported to Syria without identity documents. Jordan’s uncompromising treatment of Palestinians fleeing Syria contrasts with its treatment of Syrian nationals, at least 607,000 of whom have been accepted into the country since the beginning of the Syrian conflict. Before the March 2011 uprising began, Syria was home to at least 520,000 Palestinian refugees.

Thanks for correcting me.

I had gotten my info from a 1989 book by Tom Friedman ~ which was more or less about the 70-80's. (The book was not easy reading - lol) Noting that most of the refugee camps were from the 1940s, I looked into Arafat and it seems like Arafat may have alienated a few of his Arab neighbors. (I only skimmed the wikipedia article, I was too tired to digest it)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Arafat

 

[EllieBee]

No threats found after passengers questioned on plane at BWI









Can't say I'm surprised.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-ar-bwi-flight-delayed-20151117-story.html

Yeah. I remember the knee-jerk hysteria after 9/11, too. Everything was suspicious and everyone (well, who looked a certain way) was a terrorist.

 

[FindHG]

Chief football writer at Wembley Stadium
England and France paid tribute to the 129 people killed in Friday's attacks in Paris at an international friendly at Wembley on Tuesday.
By Phil McNulty BBC Sport

"A crowd of more than 70,000 sang La Marseillaise - the French national anthem - with the Duke of Cambridge and Prime Minister David Cameron present."





France Receives a Friendly Embrace in England
By SAM BORDEN On Soccer NEW YORK TIMES
NOV. 17, '15 includes Reuters video









Germany cancel Netherlands match after ‘serious bomb threat'
By Ciaran Fahey, AP via WASHINGTON POST
November 17 at 6:23 PM



“We had concrete evidence that someone wanted to set off an explosive device in the stadium,” Hannover police chief Volker Kluwe told German TV.

“After the first object turned out to be harmless, we got a tip that had to be taken seriously that an attack was being planned.”

Lower Saxony Interior Minister Boris Pistorius, speaking at the same late news conference, said no explosives had been found by then, and no arrests had been made.

Reinhard Rauball, said the German team was about five kilometers away from the stadium when he called and told them to turn around.


A bomb disposal unit secured a suspicious package from a train in Hannover late Tuesday, though it was unclear whether it was a bomb or not.

“The dummy is so good that it might even be a real bomb,” police spokeswoman Sandra Perlebach told news agency dpa.

The search was on for the man who left it there. A fellow passenger informed him he left something behind but he failed to react and left the train, Perlebach said.

Good save, thank goodness.

Soccer Match Canceled In Germany After Bomb Threat
Soraya Nelson in Paris NPR audio
November 17, '15 4:14 pm et

 

[gregjrichards]

Such shameful thing to say. Even for a politician and for a .. Democrat. Thankfully he's out.

'ISIS not evil, doing what's best for community'

http://northiowatoday.com/2015/11/1...il-then-quits-race-for-minnesota-legislature/


Sent via Tapatalk

Absolutely shocking thing to say I agree. Thank God the German plot was foiled by French intelligence tonight.

 

[cottonweaver]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-determination-to-defeat-Isil-is-a-myth.html

Some people, understandably, say that when they see all the different forces at war in the region it must simply be just too complicated to beat a well-organised, highly ideological enemy. But in fact, it's all very simple: no-one, including Britain, is quite threatened enough to take the risk of injecting overwhelming force.

It goes through each of the allies and explains why their individual priorities get in the way

It is just that none of these actors has a plan to take Isil’s territory and capture or kill all its fighters, the conventional notion of defeating an enemy. Other priorities get in the way.

fftobed:

 

[bluesneakers]

But on the other hand, people need to see the truth because with truth, comes knowledge. Reality is important.

I agree. I also think about the people who have to live it and have to tell their children, and I feel guilty when I look away. To me part of being on this site is to bear witness, even when it gets uncomfortable or frightening.

 

[CARIIS]

Anyone from Frace Gereman or anyone who might know , how far ahead was it made public that Frances president would attend game?

Cause we would have to say that the stadium was probably under al lot more scrutiny becasue of his being there

I shudder thinking what could have been --think about it they got really cclose to getting in and pretty quickly killed themselves, so I imagine there plan was just to walk in , get as close o a bunch of people and go

Constantly being reported three explosion there -- why is there only I that I have seen? Has anyone seen a video that shows the other two- casue crowd reaction was pretty minimal on the only tape I have seen

 

[K_Z]

I understand the concerns about the graphic pictures—the sensitivities to the families yet not notified, the dignity of the victims, the graphic images that offend sensibilities, and induce paranoia and fear. And the issues of the terrorists gloating and exploiting them. And I am torn, because on another level, I really think the awful TRUTH of what these monsters do needs to displayed uncensored, and without euphemisms and minimization. I think that is essential to how we as civilized nations and civilized people will respond to the carnage and murder and the radical ideologies. We cannot hide or whitewash what they do when they attack and kill innocents.

I think the images are a wake up call for citizens to act, and hold their leaders accountable for facing and eliminating this scourge. I’m not saying every gruesome image should be flashed up on news channels, but they should be fairly ubiquitous. We must shield children, and the emotionally fragile from the images with warnings—but I do think they should be broadcast to the public. I’ve had quite enough of suffocating political correctness. A picture is worth far more than 1000 words, in these situations. We should be shattered, heartbroken, angry and moved to ACTION by those pictures. Then they are not merely exploitation-- their unspeakable deaths serve to motivate us collectively to eliminate this scourge.

The goal of terrorists is to paralyze us with fear. The images can motivate us to action, IMO.

 

[CARIIS]

wow ABC news:

There are 1700 folks in france that are cosidered to be on the "Isis track". by intleigence. 400 and some are in Syria now - or to put it another way there are 1200 folks that according to frech intel support Isis beleifs etc that is a horrifically shooking number , with 400 in training.....

 

[passionflower]

Conference call for all governors tonight on helping refugees in the USA.
Just on CBS news