France - Five shot, four dead in French Alps, may have int'l ramifications #1

[~n/t~]

So the cyclist tended to the injured child, turned off the car engine and he's British? For some reason, I assumed he was French. I must have missed this. :waitasec:

Colonel Bertrand François, head of the gendarmerie of nearby Haute-Savoie, told the Telegraph that the cyclist has been left "unable to sleep" after the ordeal. He said French police were determined to protect his identity.
"His private life is over for the coming months. He can’t sleep at night. He can’t even go out and do his shopping,” he said.
"We are doing everything to protect the Briton's anonymity. Put yourself in his shoes. Imagine what would happen if he goes public? His life will change from one day to the next and he doesn’t want that to happen."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-cyclists-nerves-of-steel-after-massacre.html

 

[~n/t~]

Documents seen by The Sun show Saad Al-Hilli had taken out a “caveat” — a formal notice or warning — stopping terms going ahead until February.
Caveat 58692 essentially halts his brother Zaid’s claim over half of their father Kadhem’s fortune until unknown issues are resolved.
The papers also reveal that wealthy Kadhem — who was living in Malaga, Spain — had been missing for six days before he was found dead in August last year.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4527209/France-massacre-victim-halted-his-dads-will.html

 

[ScotsPaddy]

So the cyclist tended to the injured child, turned off the car engine and he's British? For some reason, I assumed he was French. I must have missed this. :waitasec:



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-cyclists-nerves-of-steel-after-massacre.html

Is he(witness cyclist) not RAF or ex RAF?.Im sure id read that at the start of all this.

 

[~n/t~]

If a 4 year old girl was on holiday with a grandmother who lived in Sweden throughout the year, I do not find it at all hard to believe that she didn't really know her/her relation to her. Assuming she was her only living grandparent the concept of grandparents might be a little confused in her mind, so I don't really read too much in to the little girl's not being fully aware and coherent on the subject.

It's the circumstances in this case that raise questions. Not the fact that grandma was visiting. The secret service in Sweden is investigating.

 

[~n/t~]

Is he(witness cyclist) not RAF or ex RAF?.Im sure id read that at the start of all this.

Yes. I guess I missed it.

 

[jjenny]

I will try and find report,but I read somewhere that they said 2 different guns had been used.

Only one gun used to shoot all victims.
Sounds like work of a single assassin to me. Also bomb squad showed up and left. I think police got concerned over some items, but I am guessing they were not actually bombs.

"French investigators confirmed on Monday that only one weapon was used to kill the four victims. There had been speculation that because of the large number of shots fired there may have been more than one weapon."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/10/french-alps-shooting-bomb-disposal

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

The bicyclists name was published at the beginning of the story, so there's no sense in protecting it now. I fear more for the two girls, and even the family that the four-year old is now with. Who knows what the girl may later remember and talk about.

The time is what I just don't get. Where the heck was the father driving to if he wasn't meeting someone, especially to be there over an hour. Did the bicyclist or anyone pass them parked on the side there? How long was he out for his ride for and from which direction did he come from (the cyclist who found the scene?) I have to wonder if the father was selling some kind of secret or information and they just decided to kill him for it instead. Was there any evidence that the family had gotten out of the car and gone for a walk during the time the car was there?

The 7 year-old will be the one with the important information. I hope she is not just turned over to family. She needs to be in hiding.

 

[fran]

Ok, so I'm confused. I thought there was a 4 yo survivor, now they say there's also a 7 yo survivor as well. Seems she must have been shot too.

Now they say the male victim's brother was a control freak and wanted to "wipe me out of his life."

Looks to me like this is most likely over money.

What a shame,

fran

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eo=true&BCVideoID=1831512622001#ixzz2641tkqHu

The dramatic turn of events comes as specialists officers are already preparing to interview

Zainab Al-Hilli, seven, who has emerged from an induced coma after members of her family were shot dead in a forested car park near Chevaline, France on September 5.
The survivor is to be shown photographs of the murder scene in an attempt to get her to identify the gunmen, it emerged today.

Women detectives now face the hugely sensitive and difficult task of getting the orphaned Zainab to describe what she saw. They also face the agonising task of telling Zainab that her parents died.
Police know Zainab was outside the BMW car in which her three relatives were killed, and in which her sister Zeena, four, hid.
Zeena saw nothing, and will not be an official witness in the enquiry having escaped unscathed, but Zainab's testament is crucial.



caption of photo in article "Feud: In a letter written last year, murdered Saad Al-Hilli, 50, (right) said his brother Zaid, 53, (left) was a ‘control freak’ and he wanted to ‘wipe him out of my life’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...iscovered-concerning-items.html#ixzz264XR5bSL

 

[jjenny]

Seven year old has severe head trauma.
If they are hoping she has some answers for them I don't think that is going to happen. Even without head trauma seven year olds don't usually make the best witnesses. They still should protect her and hide her because the killer might be concerned, but I don't think she will shed much light on this.

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

Here's the article that mentions it was two weapons:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-contract.html

 

[Skigh]

The bicyclists name was published at the beginning of the story, so there's no sense in protecting it now. I fear more for the two girls, and even the family that the four-year old is now with. Who knows what the girl may later remember and talk about.

The time is what I just don't get. Where the heck was the father driving to if he wasn't meeting someone, especially to be there over an hour. Did the bicyclist or anyone pass them parked on the side there? How long was he out for his ride for and from which direction did he come from (the cyclist who found the scene?) I have to wonder if the father was selling some kind of secret or information and they just decided to kill him for it instead. Was there any evidence that the family had gotten out of the car and gone for a walk during the time the car was there?

The 7 year-old will be the one with the important information. I hope she is not just turned over to family. She needs to be in hiding.

If the french builder is correct in what he remembers seeing and hearing,it does seem strange that the whole family were taken to wait for an hour in the parking area.

 

[Skigh]

Here's the article that mentions it was two weapons:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-contract.html

Just tried this link and it has been removed for some reason.

 

[jjenny]

Here's the article that mentions it was two weapons:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-contract.html

Only one gun according to bbc.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19541273

 

[Skigh]

Documents seen by The Sun show Saad Al-Hilli had taken out a “caveat” — a formal notice or warning — stopping terms going ahead until February.
Caveat 58692 essentially halts his brother Zaid’s claim over half of their father Kadhem’s fortune until unknown issues are resolved.
The papers also reveal that wealthy Kadhem — who was living in Malaga, Spain — had been missing for six days before he was found dead in August last year.

If disputes over the will were being done legally Zaid could eventually be given his share.
He could legally contest for his share.
I wonder how Kadhem became so wealthy.

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

Just tried this link and it has been removed for some reason.

That's weird, if you go back to page 13 I think, it's toward the bottom. I forget who posted it. Maybe they have since removed it.

What's weird is, if the father was in some kind of trouble, and he was an engineer who worked with satellite filming or some other tracking mechanisms, you have to wonder that there isn't some clue in that car. Like a camera or otherwise.

 

[Clio]

The bicyclists name was published at the beginning of the story, so there's no sense in protecting it now. I fear more for the two girls, and even the family that the four-year old is now with. Who knows what the girl may later remember and talk about.

The time is what I just don't get. Where the heck was the father driving to if he wasn't meeting someone, especially to be there over an hour. Did the bicyclist or anyone pass them parked on the side there? How long was he out for his ride for and from which direction did he come from (the cyclist who found the scene?) I have to wonder if the father was selling some kind of secret or information and they just decided to kill him for it instead. Was there any evidence that the family had gotten out of the car and gone for a walk during the time the car was there?

The 7 year-old will be the one with the important information. I hope she is not just turned over to family. She needs to be in hiding.

The named cyclist was the one who died in the attack IIRC. The ex-RAF cyclist who discovered the scene hasn't been named AFAIK.

The 7 year-old is out of her medically induced coma but is still sedated. I believe an aunt and uncle have travelled to France to be at her bedside and that she is under police guard in the hospital.

The 4 year-old who was unharmed has returned to the UK.

Mr Maillaud said: "She returned to the UK by air. On arrival she was put under the care of the authorities and the social services."

 

[laurauk1]

I'm not sure it's that odd for them to be there for an hour - perhaps they were having a picnic. I wonder if there were any walks around there they could do. There was surely a purpose for them being there and something to do for an hour with two small children. Of course this would be under normal circumstances which this case seems anything but normal! However with two small children there had to be something to hold twir attention for an hour regardless of whether there were ulterior motives for them stopping there.

 

[sherlockh]

That's weird, if you go back to page 13 I think, it's toward the bottom. I forget who posted it. Maybe they have since removed it.

What's weird is, if the father was in some kind of trouble, and he was an engineer who worked with satellite filming or some other tracking mechanisms, you have to wonder that there isn't some clue in that car. Like a camera or otherwise.

That was me Telegraph is still reporting 2 shooters, but I think the BBC/Sky reporting is more recent and so I would guess it is one gunman.

French police are hunting at least two killers who murdered the British family with semi-automatic weapons in an attack in the Alps.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...neighbours-allowed-home-after-bomb-scare.html

The shooting of a British family and a cyclist at a remote car park in the French Alps was carried out by just one gunman, police say.

http://news.sky.com/story/983064/alps-shootings-carried-out-by-one-gunman

 

[sherlockh]

I'm not sure it's that odd for them to be there for an hour - perhaps they were having a picnic. I wonder if there were any walks around there they could do. There was surely a purpose for them being there and something to do for an hour with two small children. Of course this would be under normal circumstances which this case seems anything but normal! However with two small children there had to be something to hold twir attention for an hour regardless of whether there were ulterior motives for them stopping there.

Yeah, and that is something the 4-year old could have told. Were they playing outside, having a picnic, waiting for somebody, etc... However, nothing has been reported on this.

 

[jjenny]

Yeah, and that is something the 4-year old could have told. Were they playing outside, having a picnic, waiting for somebody, etc... However, nothing has been reported on this.

I don't think she was out of the car-obviously she quickly hid under mother's skirt.
If they were having a picnic the bodies would have been found outside the car. Only 7 year old found outside the car-either only she was outside when killer approached or she tried to run away as killer started shooting.