GUILTY GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former LEO and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020 *Arrests* #5

[SuperTmo]

I can't imagine the Coast Guard Official confirming Travis's rendition. According to Travis you show a gun to de-escalate a situation.

So according to Travis he showed his gun to de-escalate a situation against a man who was running with no weapons on him and who was no threat to him. Travis testified that Ahmad was no threat to him.

No matter how you slice and dice this, Travis is the aggressor and Ahmaud was trying to defend himself against him.

Flight or fight.

For 5 minutes of this aggressive stranger chasing and yelling at Ahmaud, Ahmaud took the flight response. Finally, when the aggressive stranger got out of the truck pulling a rifle, Ahmaud's fight response clicked in.

No, none of this seems like Coast Guard training.

The purpose of someone from the USCG testifying ISN’T to confirm Travis’ understanding of his training. I’m not sure where you got that from what I wrote. The purpose would be to say that isn’t how the USCG does things, never has been, never will be.

 

[wasnt_me]

This is a burning question I have.

If TM nor GM looked down the street at Mr. Albenze, and if they never saw Mr. Albenze wave his arm forward, why did they think AA was running that day?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

This is a burning question I have.

If TM nor GM looked down the street at Mr. Albenze, and if they never saw Mr. Albenze wave his arm forward, why did they think AA was running that day?

Maybe they saw him themselves? IDK. I haven't followed the trial as closely as others but in one video the prosecution showed today, AA was running down the street and then the white pickup took off following him.

 

[SuperTmo]

Maybe someone knows the answers to these questions:

- in Georgia what is the difference between burglary and trespassing?

- I believe the law there for burglary says the person must have the intent to commit a felony inside the place they are burgling, so if he has entered it over and over and never committed a felony, how can one say he intended to commit one the day he died? If he didn’t intend to commit a felony inside the house, he wasn’t burgling, so what would the citizens arrest even be for? Nobody should have assumed he stole anything because he never had before, right?

- does a house under construction even count as a dwelling or building or structure that can be burgled? Wouldn’t it have to be completed to count?

ETA - I don’t think he was burgling and I don’t believe the M’s had any reason to suspect AA of any crimes that day.

 

[Hope4More]

This is a burning question I have.

If TM nor GM looked down the street at Mr. Albenze, and if they never saw Mr. Albenze wave his arm forward, why did they think AA was running that day?

They've said. All those "maybes." Maybe English startled him. Maybe someone else did after he broke into their home. Maybe he'd hurt someone....

In reality, I don't think they gave a damn. He was there & he wasn't going to get away this time.

 

[wasnt_me]

They've said. All those "maybes." Maybe English startled him. Maybe someone else did after he broke into their home. Maybe he'd hurt someone....

In reality, I don't think they gave a damn. He was there & he wasn't going to get away this time.

Yes, I know about their maybes. I want to know why they thought he was running. They gave Albenze as their reason to believe he'd done something down there. LD blew that excuse out of the water. So I want to know why they thought he was running if it wasn't Albenze.

 

[Rhibread]

Yes, I know about their maybes. I want to know why they thought he was running.

On the stand TM claims that he thought MAYBE he had broken in to the house. I don't believe him but I'm not sure if there is another statement about this

 

[JayWill]

Yes, I know about their maybes. I want to know why they thought he was running.

They did not have a logical reason. They had worked themselves up into lather about the black man running in their neighborhood.

 

[wasnt_me]

On the stand TM claims that he thought MAYBE he had broken in to the house. I don't believe him but I'm not sure if there is another statement about this

I don't guess I'm being clear. In his testimony, TM based what he said on Albenze pointing. We now know he didn't even see that. So I want to know why they thought he was running if it wasn't from something Albenze was indicating.

They named every crime under the sun in their neighborhood as one AA could have committed. They said he went into that house at night. So why did they think he was running then on a Sunday afternoon? What crime was it really? For example, first thing he wrote on his statement was that his gun was stolen. So WHY did they think he was running -- really?

 

[ilovewings]

Yes, I know about their maybes. I want to know why they thought he was running.

It is pretty clear to me they thought he was running because they thought he had committed some criminal act- they had no idea what that act might be, but dammit, they were going to find out so dammit, they chased him and dammit, they were going to stop him and make him tell them what criminal act he had committed- I mean why would a young black man be running in the middle of the day if he had not committed a criminal act?

 

[SharonNeedles]

I didn't watch much of the trial but the closing arguments, but on that I think there is a good chance of acquittal. <modsnip> The defense was playing to suburbanite fears of outsiders committing crime in their neighborhood, and that will strike a chord with the right people, enough to be convinced that they had probable cause for an arrest. (Even then, I still wouldn't think they had the right to use trucks and brandish a gun at him.)

In contrast to the last big famous trial, I thought the judge and all the attorneys here (except maybe the "too many black pastors" guy) were very good.

Personally, I would convict, but I do fear acquittal has a good chance, and then things will get ugly.

My guess at outcome probabilities:

TM
Guilty of Murder - 25%
Guilty of lesser charge - 25%
Acquitted - 10%
Hung Jury - 40%

GM
Guilty of Murder - 10%
Guilty of lesser charge - 20%
Acquitted - 20%
Hung Jury - 50%

RB
Guilty of Murder - 5%
Guilty of lesser charge - 30%
Acquitted - 40%
Hung Jury - 25%

 

[wasnt_me]

They did not have a logical reason. They had worked themselves up into lather about the black man running in their neighborhood.

I believe that certainly. Where can we read TM's first statement? I really want to know what he actually thought was going on. I don't know if they really were tying it to English's house until they knew about Albenze's 911 call. I have to go back and listen to them now that I know neither of them saw Albenze down there calling 911. Albenze did ride a bike down to the scene, so maybe he told them about their call before the police got there. IDK.

 

[JayWill]

It is pretty clear to me they thought he was running because they thought he had committed some criminal act- they had no idea what that act might be, but dammit, they were going to find out so dammit, they chased him and dammit, they were going to stop him and make him tell them what criminal act he had committed- I mean why would a young black man be running in the middle of the day if he had not committed a criminal act?

I don't think that they thought he had committed a criminal act. I really think that they just wanted to terrorize him. If he had stopped, I think that they would have tried to beat him into confessing to some crime. I think that he was doomed and I am sure that he knew it.
Like dogs in a pack.

 

[wasnt_me]

It is pretty clear to me they thought he was running because they thought he had committed some criminal act- they had no idea what that act might be, but dammit, they were going to find out so dammit, they chased him and dammit, they were going to stop him and make him tell them what criminal act he had committed- I mean why would a young black man be running in the middle of the day if he had not committed a criminal act?

I agree with that. I think the fact that they didn't see Albenze proves that they didn't even have probable cause that it was tied to English's house. You can't be chasing somebody without probable cause that they are fleeing arrest for a felony.

LD left me with a big missing link to tie their citizen's arrest to a burglary of the English house on Sunday.

 

[ilovewings]

I don't think that they thought he had committed a criminal act. I really think that they just wanted to terrorize him. If he had stopped, I think that they would have tried to beat him into confessing to some crime. I think that he was doomed and I am sure that he knew it.
Like dogs in a pack.

I do think they thought he committed a criminal act but I also agree that they wanted to terrorize him, which they did. I cannot imagine the fear that poor young man experienced as he tried to escape these monsters with their trucks, guns and mind-set to get him-- and ultimately to kill him. It hurts my heart and if they are acquitted , well I don't want to think they will be: in fact, I can't even imagine how that would be possible- but I am reality based so I know it is possible.

 

[clearskies1]

They saw AA running. That’s it. There’s nothing more to it. Zero basis to chase him with cars and guns. JMO.

 

[wasnt_me]

They saw AA running. That’s it. There’s nothing more to it. Zero basis to chase him with cars and guns. JMO.

Yes. So I'm trying to figure out -- how will the jury link it to citizens' arrest?

 

[clearskies1]

Yes. So I'm trying to figure out -- how will the jury link it to citizens' arrest?

They will conclude it was not a lawful citizen’s arrest. I think. JMO.

 

[ilovewings]

They will conclude it was not a lawful citizen’s arrest. I think. JMO.

Hoping and praying

 

[wasnt_me]

They will conclude it was not a lawful citizen’s arrest. I think. JMO.

I would like that, but....I don't have any faith in it.

Maybe let me put it another way -- I'd like someone to walk through the defense argument for citizens' arrest. What is the felony? When was it committed, what is the probable cause? In their view, that is with what parts of the law they think meets their defense.

I guess that's what I'm looking for when I keep asking why TM and GM thought AA was running. I'm looking for their defense and a way to believe their defense, so I can see what the jury is thinking.