GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former PD and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020 #2

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #821
He apparently wants to do just that. But.... he could well have some trouble with his sales pitch:

- The GBI emphasized that the murder charges were placed because the facts truly supported them. The facts are based on SM messaging.

I mean, to be honest, no law enforcement/prosecutor is ever going to claim a charge isn't supported by the facts and is merely added to put pressure on a defendant.

Press: So is this charge supported by the evidence?

LE/prosecutor: Well, to be honest, no jury that possesses more than 12 brain cells divided amongst themselves are ever going to convict this guy on this charge, based on the evidence, but we really needed to put some pressure on him so we can turn him into a witness and plead to a favorable deal
....said no LE/prosecutor ever.

I would take that statement with a healthy dosage of salt and wait until the trial/plea deal.
 
  • #822
I cannot find the link you are talking about, do you mind reposting. What they did is clearly against the law.
It's right in the post you replied to on the last page.
 
  • #823
We don't know exactly what immediate knowledge he had, but it sure seems like someone who saw Arbery in English's house told him about it -- which would be sufficient under the statute and the case law I posted.

That's weird, because Roddie's lawyer said his client was working in his front yard when he saw a person he did not know run down Burford followed by a vehicle he recognized from the neighbourhood. According to that statement it doesn't sound like the McM's told him anything.

So was it just a knee jerk reaction to pile into his vehicle and follow without any knowledge of what was going on? And after four minutes of playing defense to the McMs offense he pictures himself as an unwitting accomplice to murder?

Man who recorded the fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery has been arrested, GBI says
 
  • #824
dbm wrong thread
 
  • #825
That's weird, because Roddie's lawyer said his client was working in his front yard when he saw a person he did not know run down Burford followed by a vehicle he recognized from the neighbourhood. According to that statement it doesn't sound like the McM's told him anything.

So was it just a knee jerk reaction to pile into his vehicle and follow without any knowledge of what was going on? And after four minutes of playing defense to the McMs offense he pictures himself as an unwitting accomplice to murder?

Man who recorded the fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery has been arrested, GBI says

Maybe they told Roddie what happened after Roddie he saw Abery running. Or maybe his attorney didn't know what he was talking about, misspoke, or misquoted his client. Who knows. Not me.

That said, the point of my post was that the same incorrect test for a citizen's arrest keeps getting stated here as a fact. A person can be arrested by a citizen for a non-felony offense committed in his presence or of which he has "immediate knowledge."
 
  • #826
That's weird, because Roddie's lawyer said his client was working in his front yard when he saw a person he did not know run down Burford followed by a vehicle he recognized from the neighbourhood. According to that statement it doesn't sound like the McM's told him anything.

So was it just a knee jerk reaction to pile into his vehicle and follow without any knowledge of what was going on? And after four minutes of playing defense to the McMs offense he pictures himself as an unwitting accomplice to murder?

Man who recorded the fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery has been arrested, GBI says

I have to wonder if the McMichaels yelled out to him as they passed by with something like "Roddie this is him!" and there was some agreement between various neighbors to round up this "suspect" prior to that afternoon.

jmo
 
  • #827
  • #828
So nice that criminals take the time to provide video evidence of their criminal activity.

Darwinism at its best.
 
  • #829
Maybe they told Roddie what happened after Roddie he saw Abery running. Or maybe his attorney didn't know what he was talking about, misspoke, or misquoted his client. Who knows. Not me.

That said, the point of my post was that the same incorrect test for a citizen's arrest keeps getting stated here as a fact. A person can be arrested by a citizen for a non-felony offense committed in his presence or of which he has "immediate knowledge."
That is interesting, and I wonder why more of us don't tackle litterbugs or spitters, or people who leave their pets in vehicles. That would be my superhero gig, for sure.
 
  • #830
I would have confronted him the first time I saw him, as I've done in the past with people parked in front of my house late at night. If it happened more than once, or the person was particularly suspicious, I would have called the police, as the M's did here. And if he fled THAT circumstance, as Arbery did, I don't know what I'd do since I don't own a gun, but I'd probably get one. Also, what I'd do would depend on what I know about the individual. If, for example, I knew a person was a convicted criminal and/or had a history of possessing weapons and of theft, and he was frequenting my neighborhood and repeatedly entering a vacant house on my street, that would be an all out red alert. I'd call the police and all my neighbors and my ex and hope that they would do something about it since I'm an unarmed girl. What's that saying about the police being 10 minutes away?

Too much can happen in less than one minute, ten minutes could cost someone their life. Have you heard that YouTube video of the 911 call, someone is breaking into his house and the caller has a gun? He's scared out of his mind. I'm not criticizing the guy, either.
 
  • #831
He blocked him in from behind. Hence the false imprisonment.

I know of a case where the guy was charged with abduction because he held the victim at gunpoint. So in some places(states?) all you need to do is restrict their movements.
 
Last edited:
  • #832
@CNNNewsource

William "Roddie" Bryan Jr., who recorded the fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery in GA, made his 1st court appearance by video conference Friday afternoon
 

Attachments

  • 6BE3793C-A923-441C-93F5-12C2CD649F61.png
    6BE3793C-A923-441C-93F5-12C2CD649F61.png
    77.4 KB · Views: 19
  • #833
@CNNNewsource

William "Roddie" Bryan Jr., who recorded the fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery in GA, made his 1st court appearance by video conference Friday afternoon

Thanks, sds71. I was just checking on that, but didn't see anything new except for some statements from his lawyer.
 
  • #834
"If the offense is a felony"...Otherwise "A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge." The "offense" does not need to be a felony. One of the two cases I posted specifically addresses this issue as well. Not sure how it can be any more clear.

When I worked for a company as an investigator, in loss prevention and in some other cases, I had the authority to arrest an offender. Those were not felony offenses. But I never ran after someone in the street and detained them. Even during surveillance we never detained anyone. Just followed them until they got somewhere else or we lost them. BUT I never ever not even once admitted to following someone.

 
  • #835
Again...that is completely wrong. The incident absolutely does not need to be a felony, and the knowledge needed is "immediate knowledge" -- which includes a telephone call with a contemporaneous witness, for example. I posted the links to the statute and the case law previously. I guess I need to repost them every couple of pages.


GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former PD and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020 #2

That was a requirement of our company when a shoplifter was arrested. We followed state guidelines. You had to see them pick it up, see where they put it and know where it was on their person. These were not felonies. But we had to see the crime take place. "immediate knowledge"
Some store policies do not do that, and they falsely arrest people all the time. I stopped shopping at some places over their loss prevention policies. It's all over the place when you do a search. But I went looking with specific case information. I had names, details, etc. Once I had the name of the store's attorney, I found stuff from all over the country. This was ten years ago.
 
Last edited:
  • #836
  • #837
Press: So is this charge supported by the evidence?

LE/prosecutor: Well, to be honest, no jury that possesses more than 12 brain cells divided amongst themselves are ever going to convict this guy on this charge, based on the evidence, but we really needed to put some pressure on him so we can turn him into a witness and plead to a favorable deal
....said no LE/prosecutor ever.

I would take that statement with a healthy dosage of salt and wait until the trial/plea deal.

Well said, and well written.
 
Last edited:
  • #838
I think they're trying to get him to flip.

Here are the latest numbers from the Georgia DOC:

http://www.dcor.state.ga.us/sites/all/themes/gdc/pdf/Profile_lifers_2020_04.pdf

According the latest report 7408 men are currently serving life/death sentences in Georgia. 7403 (99,93%) serve life with the possibility of parole. 1 (o,01%) serves life without the possibility of parole. 3 (o,04%) are on death row, and 1 (o,01%) is a youthful offender (I'm assuming youthful offenders have a separate parole term).

In short, there is no way these guys get either the DP or LWOP, even if convicted.

I'm going to have to amend this post since the information I previously listed is incorrect!

http://www.dcor.state.ga.us/sites/all/themes/gdc/pdf/Profile_lifers_2020_04.pdf

Currently 7403 men serve life with the possibility of parole. However, I also found a second table:

http://www.dcor.state.ga.us/sites/all/themes/gdc/pdf/Profile_life_wo_parole_2020_04.pdf

Currently 1598 men serve life without the possibility of parole.

For some reason the 'Life with parole' table also lists a people with LWOP and DP sentences. I therefore assumed the table listed every life/death sentence in Georgia, but I was incorrect! I found a seperate table listing all people sentenced to LWOP (and the LWOP table also lists DP people). Rather confusing to be honest, and I have no idea why the Georgia DOC lists them that way.

Taking the revised numbers into account, this means that of all the men currently serving a life sentence in Georgia, 82,24% are serving life with parole and 17,76% serve LWOP.
 
  • #839
"If the offense is a felony"...Otherwise "A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge." The "offense" does not need to be a felony. One of the two cases I posted specifically addresses this issue as well. Not sure how it can be any more clear.

Appellate attorney in GA (link at bottom of post)

1. On offense committed in his presence or with his immediate knowledge:

"Courts have held that these are synonymous."

2. On "the offense." DA Barnhill wrote this: "(GM, TM, and Roddy) were following, in 'hot pursuit,' a burglary suspect, with solid first hand probable cause..."

None of the defendants have claimed to have seen AA on/in English's open construction site that day, or that they were alerted by a 3rd party (ies) witnessing AA on the site. Barnhill didn't claim that either.

Police report: GM said that "there had been several break-ins in the neighborhood, and further, the suspect was caught on surveillance video. (GM) said he saw the suspect from the break-ins 'hauling a-ss' (down the road)."

And, GM said THEY saw the same suspect "the other night" (at English site, Feb 11) and THEY saw him stick his hands down his pants, which led them to believe he might be armed."

  • BTW, police incident reports for Feb 11 prove that GM never laid eyes on The Trespasser that night, and TM told 911 that he saw The Trespasser put his (singular) hand into a pocket. Not hands into pants, not hands into the waistband of his pants.

3. The "offense" according to Barnhill was burglary, a felony. He made that claim despite police reports on the incidents that described the incursions onto E's site captured on surveillance tapes as trespassing.

So, either DA Barnhill willfully misinterpreted the law on what constitutes a felony or, without an investigation, implicitly asserted that AA entered into E's property without permission with the intent to commit a crime-burglary, a felony.

OR.

(And this is where Robert Lee Rash might enter the picture).

The "first hand probable cause" Barnhill referred to, specifically about prior "break-ins" not the trespass on Feb 23, and specifically about burglary, might have been predicated on this narrative: that although English didn't make a report to LE, he did tell one or more person in the neighborhood of the theft of fishing gear worth more than $2k, and that the thief stole it while being on his property without permission. Burglary.

And, word spread, including to GM, TM, and Roddy. Enter LEO Robert Lee Rash, who clearly took a very intense interest in catching the unknown black man trespasser seen in the videos. As far as we know, anyway, Rash didn't canvass the neighborhood with a description of any of the other (white) trespassers caught on video. Just of the black male intruder.

Intentionally or not, explicitly or not, IMO Rash was definitely responsible for focusing (or reinforcing) the neighborhood's collective suspicions about crimes being committed (real or imaginary) on one individual - an unidentified black male, captured on surveillance video.

We know that Robert Lee and GM spoke about The Trespasser. What was said? What if Robert Lee told GM that he believed The Trespasser stole E's fishing gear and was probably responsible for other thefts and trespasses in the neighborhood? But that they needed to catch him in the act in order to nail him?

We know that Robert Lee (at the very least) had no problem passing along to English that GM was eager and willing to "help English" catch The Trespasser. .

So perhaps the "first hand probable cause" claim is based on GM saying he had seen the surveillance videos, heard that a trespasser had committed felony theft on E's property (burglary), been told by Rash that he believed the black male trespasser was the thief, and that LEO Robert Lee Rash had either encouraged GM to get E's permission to play cop on his property, or at the very least, hadn't dissuaded GM and had, as a LEO, passed along GM's offer of providing E with his ex-LE services on his behalf.

The Ahmaud Arbery Killing and Georgia Law
 
Last edited:
  • #840
Duplicate post. :rolleyes: So sorry.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
134
Guests online
1,331
Total visitors
1,465

Forum statistics

Threads
632,440
Messages
18,626,519
Members
243,151
Latest member
MsCrystalKaye
Back
Top