GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former PD and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020

[MsBetsy]

<modsnip: personalizing> Remember, however, he wasn't shot until he grabbed the shotgun, so to say he was unarmed is disingenuous. He should have kept his hands to himself! And still been alive.

I assume he grabbed the shotgun to keep from being shot and defend himself.

There was a recent case like that in NY, where the victim "lunged" towards the suspect and tried to grab the gun, but in the end the person who shot and killed him was convicted of manslaughter.

Are you suggesting the person being persued by two men with a gun should not have tried to protect himself? How do you know he was not in fear of his life?

 

[Alpha Bravo]

I keep seeing posts claiming Ahmaud grabbed the shotgun. We don't know that. That's the story of the assailants. It's an involuntary action to put your hand up to block a shot. So no one knows if he actually grabbed the gun or hit Travis.

I reviewed the video frame-by-frame and it shows TRAVIS ADVANCING toward Ahmaud. Not Ahmaud charging Travis. At the 12 second mark, Travis is standing in the middle of the left lane. Ahmaud is running down the center lane on the yellow lines. He veers to the right to go around the truck. At the 15 second mark Ahmaud's foot disappears in front of the passenger tire and you can tell from looking at the shadow, Ahmaud is standing in front of the passenger tire. Meanwhile, Travis has now CROSSED the yellow line and is in front of the driver tire, meaning he advanced on Ahmaud. You can see Travis' hat appear from behind the front of the car as he steps back across the yellow line during the struggle.

Look again, while Travis did move to the right, Arbery darted around the front and charged him, pushing him again past the double yellows while grappling with the gun and then assaulting Travis. The autopsy report states he took a shot to the right palm, which is presumed to be when he first charged Travis and grabbed the shotgun (which went off immediately) by the muzzle. Are you saying Travis drug him back across the road? How can you explain they ended up there, if Arbery didnt charge him with violence?

 

[dienermom]

Yeah, you need the police this minute but they are an half hour away. Citizen's arrest are legal in GA. <modsnip: rude> These two guys will get off, there will be wringing of hands and calls to change the law, and next year everyone forgets it.

They are stone cold murderers. If they get off, shame on Georgia.

 

[Michelle.M]

<modsnip: This isn't a poker game> Not if it's not your gun! <modsnip: stating info as fact without MSM to substantiate>

Oh, so if it's not your gun and you grab the gun, what crime is that exactly in this context and were the police notified of that crime? Just curious about your thinking. What was he guilty of that warranted his demise?

I'm also curious as to when Georgia began allowing citizens to shoot other people during a citizen's arrest. Would be great if you could share that info.

<modsnip: personalizing>

 

[Alpha Bravo]

I assume he grabbed the shotgun to keep from being shot and defend himself.

There was a recent case like that in NY, where the victim "lunged" towards the suspect and tried to grab the gun, but in the end the person who shot and killed him was convicted of manslaughter.

Are you suggesting the person being persued by two men with a gun should not have tried to protect himself? How do you know he was not in fear of his life?

I would like a link to that... <modsnip: removed insinuation not based on known fact> Anyway, if someone pulls a gun out, I don't see myself trying to wrestle it away from them, esp if there are two and a trailing car. WTH? He was out of his mind trying that stunt. <modsnip>

 

[ilovewings]

I think the conviction is going to be a slam dunk:

Strike One: The assailants had absolutely no legal justification to attempt to detain the victim. Heck, they don't even have a "maybe / good faith" reason for the citizens arrest. Say, "Well, we saw him making a young girl uncomfortable with repeated sexual references. So, we confronted him..."

Strike Two: The victim tried to retreat before defending himself.

Strike Three: The assailants repeatedly tried to corner the victim, then advanced with weapons drawn (obvious bad intent). The victim then stood his ground and defended himself.

There are no slam dunks- by the time the defense attorneys twist everything around,
the defendants will be presented as choir boys in their suits in court: the facts will be twisted and the victim will be victimized once again--if he has as much as a speeding
ticket he will be portrayed as having presented a danger wherein the defendants
had no choice but to shoot him
victim will be

 

[dienermom]

<modsnip: rude and personalizing> Remember, however, he wasn't shot until he grabbed the shotgun, so to say he was unarmed is disingenuous. He should have kept his hands to himself! And still been alive.

You mean when he grabbed the *barrel* of the shotgun to point it away from himself in order not to be shot by it? I am a white woman and I would have done the same thing, but of course, these ignorant fools would never have chased me through their neighborhood bc I did not belong.

 

[ilovewings]

I think the conviction is going to be a slam dunk:

Strike One: The assailants had absolutely no legal justification to attempt to detain the victim. Heck, they don't even have a "maybe / good faith" reason for the citizens arrest. Say, "Well, we saw him making a young girl uncomfortable with repeated sexual references. So, we confronted him..."

Strike Two: The victim tried to retreat before defending himself.

Strike Three: The assailants repeatedly tried to corner the victim, then advanced with weapons drawn (obvious bad intent). The victim then stood his ground and defended himself.

There are no slam dunks- by the time the defense attorneys twist everything around,
the defendants will be presented as choir boys in their suits in court: the facts will be twisted and the victim will be victimized once again--if he has as much as a speeding
ticket he will be portrayed as having presented a danger wherein the defendants
had no choice but to shoot him

 

[Alpha Bravo]

Oh, so if it's not your gun and you grab the gun, what crime is that exactly in this context and were the police notified of that crime? Just curious about your thinking. What was he guilty of that warranted his demise?

I'm also curious as to when Georgia began allowing citizens to shoot other people during a citizen's arrest. Would be great if you could share that info.

<modsnip: personalizing>

The crime I see Arbery committing is assault, and assault with a deadly weapon. (had he survived) <modsnip: not victim friendly>

 

[Alpha Bravo]

There are no slam dunks- by the time the defense attorneys twist everything around,
the defendants will be presented as choir boys in their suits in court: the facts will be twisted and the victim will be victimized once again--if he has as much as a speeding
ticket he will be portrayed as having presented a danger wherein the defendants
had no choice but to shoot him

Which is the actual truth. Once he laid hands on that shotgun and started pounding on Travis, it required him to act for his own safety. Only at that moment did he shoot.

 

[Michelle.M]

Assuming he was a jogger - which is definitely plausible - it's not a stretch to say he jogged from his neighborhood to the place that he was killed in. Two miles isn't really that far. Additionally, lots of people drive to other locales and jog/run on their preferred terrains. It definitely makes sense considering the fact that most states are in shelter-in-place.

<modsnip>

 

[Alpha Bravo]

You mean when he grabbed the *barrel* of the shotgun to point it away from himself in order not to be shot by it? I am a white woman and I would have done the same thing, but of course, these ignorant fools would never have chased me through their neighborhood bc I did not belong.

<modsnip: personalizing> Arbery charged Travis HARD, grabbing the muzzle and then the gun, his charge had so much energy they went way to the left out of camera range. He didn't just swat it away. He attacked full force. Believe your eyes.

 

[LovelyB]

<modsnip: personalizing>Arbery charged Travis HARD, grabbing the muzzle and then the gun, his charge had so much energy they went way to the left out of camera range. He didn't just swat it away. He attacked full force. Believe your eyes.

If someone was pointing a gun at me, and if I had the courage, I would do the same thing. There was NO reason for those men to be hunting that guy down. Period.

 

[dienermom]

There are no slam dunks- by the time the defense attorneys twist everything around,
the defendants will be presented as choir boys in their suits in court: the facts will be twisted and the victim will be victimized once again--if he has as much as a speeding
ticket he will be portrayed as having presented a danger wherein the defendants
had no choice but to shoot him

I wouldn’t be so sure about that. Everyone assumed that white cop Amber Guyger would get off in TX and she was convicted.

 

[ilovewings]

I wouldn’t be so sure about that. Everyone assumed that white cop Amber Guyger would get off in TX and she was convicted.

That is true about Amber Guyger--- i am one of those people that thought she would get off: a lot depends on the judge and jury

 

[Alpha Bravo]

I wouldn’t be so sure about that. Everyone assumed that white cop Amber Guyger would get off in TX and she was convicted.

That was a tough one. Gee what a first class idiot she was, but obviously a mistake. Another sad story.

 

[dienermom]

<modsnip: personalizing> Arbery charged Travis HARD, grabbing the muzzle and then the gun, his charge had so much energy they went way to the left out of camera range. He didn't just swat it away. He attacked full force. Believe your eyes.

I saw the video. <modsnip: personalizing> The video speaks for itself. Horrifying.

 

[Michelle.M]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Where I live, people of all backgrounds, ages, etc come to jog and exercise on a regular basis, and they don't live in the area. It's not that big a deal to me. I guess it's unusual for some people.

 

[dienermom]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

So they were justified in hunting him down and cornering him using deadly force?!?

 

[MsBetsy]

I would like a link to that... <modsnip: removed insinuation not based on known fact> Anyway, if someone pulls a gun out, I don't see myself trying to wrestle it away from them, esp if there are two and a trailing car. WTH? He was out of his mind trying that stunt. <modsnip>

Actually it was a case my brother had. He's an attorney.

The victim had been accused of statutory rape and the police had enlisted the perpetrator to help capture him. Their first plan failed, and the guy ended up trying to hold him until he could call police. He was leading him down a path in the woods at gunpoint when the guy "lunged" for the gun.

Give me a few minutes to find out the name. It was almost two years ago that he was convicted but I think he's out of jail now. He was sentenced to twenty years, originally. My brother defended him initially, and lost.

Anyway, it can't really be compared to this case, since the victim was wanted for rape, and the laws are different in NY. In Georgia the killer probably would not have been charged with murder.


Imo