GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former PD and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020

[zencompass]

The following video interview of Mr. (Roddie) Bryan is interesting.

Georgia man behind the Ahmaud Arbery video says he hopes the tape 'brings justice' for the family - CNN Video

 

[Reasonable & Just]

I wonder why they didn't just follow him home (at a safe and respectful distance) and let the police know where to find him for questioning? It's not like he was running away with someone's toddler. That I could understand.

 

[oviedo]

Does anyone have any thoughts on what role "Roddie" played in recording the incident. After watching tonight's interview with Chris Cuomo on CNN I am thinking Roddie was recording the incident either as a potential witness to a crime or because he wanted to use it as evidence against the father and son team.

IMO he was in on the hunt.

 

[MsBetsy]

What's the difference between assumption and suspicion?

I think the main difference is to 'suspect' someone usually involves the idea of guilt or wrongdoing.

Assumption is the act of taking for granted or supposing something to be true without proof.

Suspicion is suspecting something wrong without proof or with slight evidence.

McMichaels assumed Arbery was the same person who had been on the property before and was there to steal something. He suspected that he was responsible for a "bunch" of thefts in the past (although only one was reported 7 weeks ago)

He suspected Arbery was guilty of burglary without proof or with only slight evidence.

The only evidence that we know of is that he saw Arbery exit the home and run down the road.

Imo

 

[SharonNeedles]

IMO he was in on the hunt.

Really? There we plenty of opportunities to take a shot. Why wait until Arbery has his hands on the weapon?

 

[Matic]

I've seen in a couple previous posts that the McMichaels lived 4 houses down on the same side of the street as the house that AA entered, Correct? Is that 4 houses including the house that was entered? Or 5 houses including the house that was entered?

 

[tlcya]

"We are indeed reviewing additional video footage and photographs as part of the active case," the GBI said in a statement Saturday afternoon, several hours after the AJC’s article about the video posted online. "It is important to note that this footage was reviewed at the beginning of the GBI investigation and before the arrests of Gregory and Travis McMichael." GBI reviewing additional video footage in Ahmaud Arbery case

The above statement from GBI keeps replaying in my head. All these videos that are new to us (the public that is) were reviewed prior to GBI arresting the Ms. That tells me that nothing in these videos gave GBI reason to think the Ms actions that Sunday afternoon in February were justified or legal. ie. the Ms lack of probable cause in following, confronting and killing AA is what GBI found as probable cause to arrest GM and TM.
JMO

 

[Hope4More]

I've seen in a couple previous posts that the McMichaels lived 4 houses down on the same side of the street as the house that AA entered, Correct? Is that 4 houses including the house that was entered? Or 5 houses including the house that was entered?

There are 4 houses between 220 (English site) and TM's (230).

 

[firebird]

This is a practicing lawyer in the area. He breakers down the statutes. He disagrees with you whole hog Firebird.
The Ahmaud Arbery Killing and Georgia Law

He actually agrees with me on what the law is. He just attempts to apply it based on what he thinks he knows about the evidence, rather than what the evidence actually is or will be. Which none of us knows. So...irrelevant, imo.

 

[oviedo]

Really? There we plenty of opportunities to take a shot. Why wait until Arbery has his hands on the weapon?

My post was in response to the post regarding the person who recorded the video - IMO, he was part of the hunt with the two others. He blocked him with his vehicle.
-----
@GBI_GA
Director Reynolds: We are investigating everybody involved including William Bryan, the third man who filmed the video of the shooting, tried to block Ahmaud Arbery with his own vehicle, and who has not been charged.

 

[Boxer]

That's an interesting turn of phrase, "plundering around." Isn't to plunder to steal? And then English reportedly gives 2 stories, 4 days apart, stories that are completely in opposition to the other. Just waiting to see what he says under oath.

Out of curiosity, was he paid for either story? TIA

Sounds like a play on words or a mistake for "blundering around."

 

[Reasonable & Just]

Really? There we plenty of opportunities to take a shot. Why wait until Arbery has his hands on the weapon?

Maybe they had something else in mind. JMO.

 

[Hope4More]

For anyone who followed up on the excellent link posted of an article on GA laws applicable in this case, written by a practicing appellate attorney in GA, The Ahmaud Arbery Killing and Georgia Law

here's a link to the GA Supreme case he noted.

Carter v. State, 506 S.E.2d 124, 269 Ga. 891 – CourtListener.com

The issue of citizen's arrest came up somewhat tangentially at trial.

In a nutshell: the victim in the case had once chased down someone he suspected of burglarizing his friend's house, and had beaten that person with a baseball bat when he caught up with him.

At trial, the defendant used this incident to try to justify his own use of lethal force as self-defense: that the victim was known to be violent.

The State argued that the victim had simply been making a lawful citizen's arrest when he chased after and assaulted the person he believed to be a burglar.

The GA Supreme Court ruled that no, the victim had not in fact made a lawful citizen's arrest, stating: "only force that is reasonable in the circumstances may be used to restrain the individual being arrested," and that the assault with a baseball bat was too excessive to be part of a legitimate (lawful) citizen's arrest.

 

[zencompass]

Fox54 news posted the initial court appearance:

Please note:
Travis McMichael is read the charges against him at the beginning of the video and then there is a long pause until -4:07 when Gregory McMichael appears on the Court video. The remainder of the video is unrelated to this case.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=334822250828134

 

[Hope4More]

"We are indeed reviewing additional video footage and photographs as part of the active case," the GBI said in a statement Saturday afternoon, several hours after the AJC’s article about the video posted online. "It is important to note that this footage was reviewed at the beginning of the GBI investigation and before the arrests of Gregory and Travis McMichael." GBI reviewing additional video footage in Ahmaud Arbery case

The above statement from GBI keeps replaying in my head. All these videos that are new to us (the public that is) were reviewed prior to GBI arresting the Ms. That tells me that nothing in these videos gave GBI reason to think the Ms actions that Sunday afternoon in February were justified or legal. ie. the Ms lack of probable cause in following, confronting and killing AA is what GBI found as probable cause to arrest GM and TM.
JMO

According to a G. County official, LE on the scene found abundant probable cause to arrest both MM's on the spot, simply on the basis that both were armed and the victim bleeding out in the middle of the street was not.

I agree that the GBI didn't find anything on the videos that provided justification for, much less exoneration of, MM's actions. IMO the GBI might have made that public statement about the videos to part to neutralize the damage DA Barnhill did in his recusal letter. (By unethically stating his own conclusion that the MM's made a lawful citizen's arrest, based on their viewing of those same nighttime surveillance tapes by English).

 

[Matic]

Maybe they had something else in mind. JMO.

I agree.
Like just hemming him up and trying to slow him down without actually touching him until the police showed up.

What exactly do you think they had in mind if I may ask?

 

[firebird]

For anyone who followed up on the excellent link posted of an article on GA laws applicable in this case, written by a practicing appellate attorney in GA, The Ahmaud Arbery Killing and Georgia Law

here's a link to the GA Supreme case he noted.

Carter v. State, 506 S.E.2d 124, 269 Ga. 891 – CourtListener.com

The issue of citizen's arrest came up somewhat tangentially at trial.

In a nutshell: the victim in the case had once chased down someone he suspected of burglarizing his friend's house, and had beaten that person with a baseball bat when he caught up with him.

At trial, the defendant used this incident to try to justify his own use of lethal force as self-defense: that the victim was known to be violent.

The State argued that the victim had simply been making a lawful citizen's arrest when he chased after and assaulted the person he believed to be a burglar.

The GA Supreme Court ruled that no, the victim had not in fact made a lawful citizen's arrest, stating: "only force that is reasonable in the circumstances may be used to restrain the individual being arrested," and that the assault with a baseball bat was too excessive to be part of a legitimate (lawful) citizen's arrest.

Not on point for a bunch of different reasons, imo. But, ultimately, asserting a defense that "the victim was known to be violent" to justify attacking him with a baseball bat is completely different from asserting a defense that AA "attempted to take McMichael's gun" and therefore their actions were reasonable under the circumstances -- which is what the defendants in this case are saying.

From the link:

At trial, the State stipulated to Carter's introduction into evidence of a police report that charged the murder victim, Edwards, with aggravated assault. The police report stated that Edwards and another man had once chased an individual whom they believed had burglarized the other man's home, and assaulted the individual with a baseball bat. Carter intended the evidence to support his justification defense by showing Edward's purported propensity for violence. In response, the State contended that Edwards had not assaulted anyone, but rather had merely effectuated a citizen's arrest. At the State's request, the trial court gave a jury charge on citizen's arrest.

Even though slight evidence is enough to justify the giving of a jury charge,[12] we conclude there was not sufficient evidentiary support in this case to warrant the trial court's charge on citizen's arrest. Although a private person may make a citizen's arrest under OCGA § 17-4-60, only force that is reasonable under the circumstances may be used to restrain the individual arrested.[13] Certainly under the facts that were recounted in the police report, Edward's alleged assault of the individual with a baseball bat entailed the use of unreasonable force, and could not have been part of a legitimate citizen's arrest. Accordingly, the trial court erred by charging the jury on citizen's arrest. However, in light of the overwhelming evidence of Carter's guilt, there is no reasonable likelihood that the erroneous charge lessened the State's burden to prove all essential elements of the crimes charged beyond a reasonable doubt, and therefore the error was harmless.[14]

 

[Matic]

Hadn't seen an overhead view of how close the houses are on Satillo dr but it looks
as though they are very close with just a small strip between the houses.

 

[SharonNeedles]

Hadn't seen an overhead view of how close the houses are on Satillo dr but it looks
as though they are very close with just a small strip between the houses.

Do you happen to know a date for that view? Wondering because that appears to maybe be the boat that was visible in two of the four previous nighttime videos.

 

[Matic]

Fox54 news posted the initial court appearance:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=334822250828134

What in world is going on here?
The Judge has to be pointed out that there's another charge after the aggrivated assault charge, then proceeds to read the exact same charge again?
Only to be reminded once again and has to have it POINTED out to him that there is a felony murder charge as well?

Good Lord.