GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former PD and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020

[sds71]

Ahmaud Arbery’s mother stood a few feet from his grave Tuesday, choking back tears as she talked about her son.
“He was the baby of the family,” Wanda Cooper Jones said. “He has two older siblings . . . Ahmaud was humble. Ahmaud was a good boy. To know Ahmaud is to love Ahmaud. Ahmaud didn’t deserve to go the way he went.”

Relatives say that Ahmaud Arbery was a humble jogger

 

[sds71]

@CuomoPrimeTime
Larry English, the man who is building the home Ahmaud Arbery is believed to have entered before he was shot and killed, said he does not believe Arbery stole anything and that reports fishing equipment was stolen from the structure are false: "That's a false accusation"
Cuomo Prime Time on Twitter

 

[Boxer]

https://nypost.com/2020/05/08/fathe..._medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_5183487

Barnhill said GM had first hand knowledge of a burglary.

Firsthand Knowledge Law and Legal Definition. Firsthand knowledge refers to something which the witness actually saw or heard, as distinguished from something he learned from some other person or source.

Firsthand Knowledge Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.

 

[oviedo]

I disagree. It may have a great deal to do with how we got to where we are today in this case. NO, stealing a TV doesn't warrant murder. But being involved in criminal activity certainly increases the chances of someone meeting a less than desirable fate.

We still don't know what the M's did or did not know, what neighbors did or did not share, or what they did or did not see prior to their confronting AA. Answers to those questions matter very much. They speak to their frame of mind at the time. Do I think it was the right call to handle it the way they did? Unequivocally, NO. But, are they necessarily premeditated murderers, no. If the answers to those questions come back and are unfavorable to them, then I'm all for calling a spade a spade, classifying them as murderers, and giving them the appropriate punishment that comes with it.

If we agree that AA could steal a TV, but still be a good man, at least until the facts all come to light, couldn't we consider that the M's just might be (however remote the possibility) good men who made a terrible choice? None of us is all bad or all good. I'd hate to be judged by the world based on my worst decision.

I'm just not seeing premeditation here. Who plans to commit murder and asks their buddy to come along and trail behind and film it? Who calls the police right before they hop in a truck to mow someone down? Who slows down and has a verbal exchange with the victim? Who shoots this jogger in a residential area in broad daylight? They could have followed him to a more remote location.

They are absolutely guilty of poor judgment and awful choices. They may or may not be guilty of murder. It remains to be seen how and if Georgia law sanctions their actions that day. If it turns out that they are murderers under Georgia law, IMOO, they did not get into the truck with the intent to kill AA.

What's makes this case so much worse for all involved is the DA stepping in and thwarting the arrests initially. I don't know her reasons. I do know that LE and a DA's office have a bit of an adversarial relationship in general. As in the more a DA is concerned with conviction rate, the more selective they are in what cases go to trial. Whatever the reasons, that decision did no one any favors. AMOO

I will tell you “who” IMO arrogant people who feel entitled to take the law into their own hands - as soon as they grabbed their guns their act became premeditated IMO and I absolutely disagree with your assertion about the victims prior acts - they have no bearing on him jogging down the public road
JMO
<modsnip: snark>

 

[oviedo]

CBS is airing a new story now - LE says he never asked the Ms for help protecting his property - they also discuss the DAs and the desire to get answers - will add the link
ETA link is not up yet but this is from yesterday
Watch CBS This Morning: Fourth DA appointed to Ahmaud Arbery case - Full show on CBS All Access

 

[Reasonable & Just]

Of course it is wrong, absolutely! Larry English and Roddie Bryan are both receiving death threats. I suggest however the difference in outrage is that both Mr. Bryan and Mr. English are very much alive, while Ahmaud Arbery is the primary victim in this case and he is dead.

If you mean Larry English (not B. English), he does have a lawyer. Her name is Elizabeth Graddy.

Also, while I did read about the threats to Mr. English, I haven't seen any articles that are specific about who the threats are from. Could very well be that some of them are from the McMichaels' supporters, because he sure isn't backing them up.

I didn't see any information in the DailyMail article that indicated the Black Panthers are camping out in anyone's yard or trespassing...just protesting, as they have the right to. It may feel like trespassing if you don't think they belong there, but is it legally trespassing? I sure wouldn't like seeing armed people walking around my neighborhood, but they have the right to in that state if they have the proper permits. Like every other red-blooded American.

 

[Cryptic]

What in the actual . . . does AA's brother and a cousin have to do with his own right to be jogging without interference or murdered have to do with anything??? I am disgusted and flabbergasted. I can't wait for the FEDS to investigate the entire DA's office.

My general impression is that Misfeasance charges (willful neglect / refusal to carry out assigned duties) charges against public officials are rare.

This is because "willful" must be clearly established. In contrast, simply being a poorly performing prosecutor, police officer, teacher, social worker etc. is not illegal. Then factor that technically, the DA did not absolutely refuse to prosecute. Instead he (they) recused himself.

In this case, however, there was overwhelming evidence that a crime of some sort had been committed and that the crime resulted in a deliberate death. Likewise, the DA then directly states that the deceased family's bad reputation played a part in his decision.

In short, one needs to try pretty hard to be charged with Misfeasance. This prosecutor, however, may have actually "accomplished" that.

 

[Hope4More]

https://nypost.com/2020/05/08/fathe..._medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_5183487

Barnhill said GM had first hand knowledge of a burglary.

Firsthand Knowledge Law and Legal Definition. Firsthand knowledge refers to something which the witness actually saw or heard, as distinguished from something he learned from some other person or source.

Firsthand Knowledge Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.

That's not exactly what Barnhill wrote about "first hand" in his (after the fact) recusal letter

What he wrote, in what amounted to a summary of the "facts," was that:

1. MM & TM "were following a burglary suspect;"

2. that they had "solid first hand PROBABLE CAUSE;"

3. that they were "asking/telling AA to stop;"

4. that " it appears that their intent was to stop and hold this criminal suspect until LE arrived."
------

Definition of probable cause: " a reasonable basis for believing that a crime has been committed. "

"Citizens arrest" statute: A private person may arrest an offender if the crime is committed in his presence, or within his immediate knowledge.

If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping, or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon REASONABLE AND PROBABLE GROUNDS OF SUSPICION.
-----------

Seems like Barnhill skipped over the "immediate knowledge" and present tense of the offense clauses in the law in his rush to get to the probable cause justification.

-----

BTW. There's apparently nothing explicit in GA's private person arrest laws about what apprehenders are legally obligated to say to the "criminal suspects" they are chasing.

Barnhill obviously didn't see any problem with the MMs, by their own account, simply "asking/telling" AA to "stop." As they chased him, with guns, in a truck. WTH would he? How was AA supposed to know they were chasing him to make a "citizens arrest"?

At what point in the assume, chase, corner, holler STOP, brandish guns process are apprehenders supposed to inform the " criminal suspect" that they are arresting him?

Add that omission to the train wreck of allowing armed private citizens to chase after "criminal suspects" to arrest them, and the right to use deadly force in "self-defense." Imo

 

[Gardenista]

CBS is airing a new story now - LE says he never asked the Ms for help protecting his property - they also discuss the DAs and the desire to get answers - will add the link
ETA link is not up yet but this is from yesterday
Watch CBS This Morning: Fourth DA appointed to Ahmaud Arbery case - Full show on CBS All Access

Poor guy. Hopefully this will help get the crazy mob off of his back.

 

[Reasonable & Just]

Poor guy. Hopefully this will help get the crazy mob off of his back.

Unless that mob includes McMichaels supporters...

 

[branmuffin]

Never said "Hem in", I said "Hem him up".

Hemmed up - inconvenience someone, hold them up, delay

I'm not in the businesses of "hemming up" people. So I wouldn't know.

How would you go about delaying someone or inconveniencing someone that was seemingly in a hurry to go somewhere?

Well the last thing I'd do is jump out of a truck holding a shotgun under the auspices of wanting to talk to the POI. Because LE, where I come from, try to de-escalate a situation not throw gasoline on a fire. Maybe it's a training thing. Based on the historical record of GM arresting people for EIGHT years without the authority to do so, suggests a huge gap in training, both practical and more importantly, psychological.

There's a reason well trained LE give up fresh pursuit in car chases. To not ratchet up collateral damage. But I did say well trained, didn't I?

Mr. Mcmichael in his misguided attempt to take down a POI "we just want to talk to you" might have uncovered a Pandora's Box of scrutiny related to prior arrests and seizures.

 

[Boxer]

That's not exactly what Barnhill wrote about "first hand" in his (after the fact) recusal letter

What he wrote, in what amounted to a summary of the "facts," was that:

1. MM & TM "were following a burglary suspect;"

2. that they had "solid first hand PROBABLE CAUSE;"

3. that they were "asking/telling AA to stop;"

4. that " it appears that their intent was to stop and hold this criminal suspect until LE arrived."
------

Definition of probable cause: " a reasonable basis for believing that a crime has been committed. "

"Citizens arrest" statute: A private person may arrest an offender if the crime is committed in his presence, or within his immediate knowledge.

If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping, or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon REASONABLE AND PROBABLE GROUNDS OF SUSPICION.
-----------

Seems like Barnhill skipped over the "immediate knowledge" and present tense of the offense clauses in the law in his rush to get to the probable cause justification.

-----

BTW. There's apparently nothing explicit in GA's private person arrest laws about what apprehenders are legally obligated to say to the "criminal suspects" they are chasing.

Barnhill obviously didn't see any problem with the MMs, by their own account, simply "asking/telling" AA to "stop." As they chased him, with guns, in a truck. WTH would he? How was AA supposed to know they were chasing him to make a "citizens arrest"?

At what point in the assume, chase, corner, holler STOP, brandish guns process are apprehenders supposed to inform the " criminal suspect" that they are arresting him?

Add that omission to the train wreck of allowing armed private citizens to chase after "criminal suspects" to arrest them, and the right to use deadly force in "self-defense." Imo

“It appears Travis McMichael, Greg McMichael and [neighbor] William Bryan were following in hot pursuit of a burglary suspect with solid first-hand probable cause,” Barnhill wrote in a letter to Glynn County police Capt. Tom Jump. “

 

[Hope4More]

Here's a BTW, in case you didn't notice/read it
about the "investigation" DA Barnhill did of AA's case. Before he informed LE it was "justifiable homicide" and that they had no grounds to arrest MM, TM, or, and explicitly mentioned by Barnhill, Bryan.

1. AA was pronounced dead at the scene at about 1:45PM, Feb 23.

2. Bryan informed LE on the scene about his video, they viewed it. LE spoke with him, as well as with MM and TM. LE believed they had probable cause to immediately arrest MM and TM. Phone calls were no doubt made when they were told/realized MM's work history. Arrests were not made.

3. DA Johnson recused herself immediately, but not before handing the case over to DA Barnhill.

4. DA Barnhill interviewed MM, TM, and Bryan on the same day AA was killed. These "interviews" began at 3:30PM, Feb. 23.

5. By noon the next day, after interviewing exactly no one else and not re-interviewing any of the 3 participants, DA Barnhill reached his conclusion of justifiable homicide.

6. That means he seems to have reached his conclusion without even speaking to Mr. English, the alleged victim of AA's alleged criminality (LE didn't interview E until Feb 28) that supposedly warranted his pursuit and death.

7. Here's another hmmm. Again, Barnhill interviewed MM, TM, AND Bryan all on the same afternoon, the day AA was killed.

So. Either nothing Bryan told Barnhill (or LE) was inconsistent with MM and TM's versions of the story, OR, Barnhill simply ignored any inconsistencies or flat out discrepancies, or never asked Bryan the obvious questions that would have elicited contradictory details. (Example: how did you become involved? Where and when did you first see AA? The MMs? Did either MM ask you for assistance in the pursuit? Etc.)

Remembering here that MM either lied to LE and Barnhill about the sequence of events just before AA was killed (the trapping AA part), or LE and Barnhill both just got that critical sequence all wrong. Wonder what Bryan said about how he ended up on Holmes, videotaping- (soundlessly, even as he witnessed AA being shot).

 

[branmuffin]

<rsbm>

Just jumping off this part of your post branmuffin ...

Pretty amazing that Roddie was able to keep a steady hand on that video right up to and including stopping to the left and just shy of the rear bumper of the McMichael truck ... mere feet from that final horrifying moment and all the while there are 2 guys with guns on the road. He sure seemed to be confident he wasn't in any danger of being shot.

It's hard keeping up with the information that comes in. Much of the timeline and snatches of video offered up by media has been truncated or edited for brevity which subtly alters the narrative. As a matter of fact, I am beginning to question whether William 'Roddie' Bryan was alone in his vehicle when filming the event. I've watched several variations of the video, leaked by an attorney not associated with the investigation (which raises a few flags for me) and have heard the distinctive sound of a weapon, and also a woman's voice.

 

[Hope4More]

“It appears Travis McMichael, Greg McMichael and [neighbor] William Bryan were following in hot pursuit of a burglary suspect with solid first-hand probable cause,” Barnhill wrote in a letter to Glynn County police Capt. Tom Jump. “

??? Did I not explain the distinction well between "first hand" knowledge of the (alleged) burglary" (which Barnhill did not assert) and "solid first hand probable cause" to pursue AA (which Barnhill did assert). Not the same thing. And IMO, quite intentionally not the same thing, because IMO Barnhill knew quite well how legally problematic that pursuit was. Even if AA hadn't ended up on the road, dead, as a result of the pursuit.

 

[oviedo]

Here's a BTW, in case you didn't notice/read it
about the "investigation" DA Barnhill did of AA's case. Before he informed LE it was "justifiable homicide" and that they had no grounds to arrest MM, TM, or, and explicitly mentioned by Barnhill, Bryan.

1. AA was pronounced dead at the scene at about 1:45PM, Feb 23.

2. Bryan informed LE on the scene about his video, they viewed it. LE spoke with him, as well as with MM and TM. LE believed they had probable cause to immediately arrest MM and TM. Phone calls were no doubt made when they were told/realized MM's work history. Arrests were not made.

3. DA Johnson recused herself immediately, but not before handing the case over to DA Barnhill.

4. DA Barnhill interviewed MM, TM, and Bryan on the same day AA was killed. These "interviews" began at 3:30PM, Feb. 23.

5. By noon the next day, after interviewing exactly no one else and not re-interviewing any of the 3 participants, DA Barnhill reached his conclusion of justifiable homicide.

6. That means he seems to have reached his conclusion without even speaking to Mr. English, the alleged victim of AA's alleged criminality (LE didn't interview E until Feb 28) that supposedly warranted his pursuit and death.

7. Here's another hmmm. Again, Barnhill interviewed MM, TM, AND Bryan all on the same afternoon, the day AA was killed.

So. Either nothing Bryan told Barnhill (or LE) was inconsistent with MM and TM's versions of the story, OR, Barnhill simply ignored any inconsistencies or flat out discrepancies, or never asked Bryan the obvious questions that would have elicited contradictory details. (Example: how did you become involved? Where and when did you first see AA? The MMs? Did either MM ask you for assistance in the pursuit? Etc.)

Remembering here that MM either lied to LE and Barnhill about the sequence of events just before AA was killed (the trapping AA part), or LE and Barnhill both just got that critical sequence all wrong. Wonder what Bryan said about how he ended up on Holmes, videotaping- (soundlessly, even as he witnessed AA being shot).

great synopsis - thanks for taking the time to lay it out for us.
IMO

 

[branmuffin]

Forgive my ignorance, please. What's the difference again in the BP's camping out at his residence and making death threats versus the present day clan's intimidation tactics? Where is the outrage for B. English? Where are the calls for justice for him and for him family? What do-gooder on SM is advocating for him? Is some kindly lawyer advocating for him?

What we need to remember here is that the general public is conflating the video we see of AA checking out the construction on the day he was killed, which was only released by LE after his death, and marrying it up with the MM's assertion that AA was responsible for ANY prior trespasses by persons unknown. In their heads (general public) they have mistakenly assumed Mr.English provided it to the MM's.

I would also like to point out that Mr. English clarified on CNN last night with Cuomo, that he NEVER said $2500 worth of fishing equipment was stolen from 220 Satilla Dr. He stated the equipment had been in his boat which he'd transported to his home an hour and a half away from Satilla Shores so was uncertain of the origin or timing of the theft, hence it was never reported it to LE. It appears others made assumptions.

 

[branmuffin]

https://nypost.com/2020/05/08/fathe..._medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_5183487

Barnhill said GM had first hand knowledge of a burglary.

Firsthand Knowledge Law and Legal Definition. Firsthand knowledge refers to something which the witness actually saw or heard, as distinguished from something he learned from some other person or source.

Firsthand Knowledge Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.

That sounds like a fiction to me. What first hand knowledge did GM have?

 

[tlcya]

Georgia Attorney General Christopher Carr announced he's requesting an investigation into the handling of the case.

"Unfortunately, many questions and concerns have arisen regarding, among other things, the communications between and actions taken by the District Attorneys of the Brunswick and Waycross Circuits," Carr said in a statement Tuesday. "As a result, we have requested the GBI to review in order to determine whether the process was undermined in any way."

Ahmaud Arbery was shot three times, twice in the chest, autopsy shows

 

[tlcya]

I strongly suspect we will learn that GM's probable cause amounts to posts in a neighborhood Facebook group. SMDH