GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former PD and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020

[eagleyeseymour]

Having watched the video several times, it looks like Arbery, coming around the front of the truck, took several steps toward the guy with the shotgun (and then grabbed the muzzle presumably) before the first shot was fired. McMichael does not appear to be blocking Arbery's way beforehand, ie, Arbery could have continued running straight ahead.

That being said, I don't think the McMichaels had cause to be executing a citizen's arrest. Idiots.

The issue with this analysis is that any one of us could watch the video 1000 times and no one would see what happened in front of the truck as they are not visible until they both emerge to the left.

Arbery could have continued running straight, however, after being pursued by 3 armed men in a pick up truck, including one who jumped out with a shotgun, running straight seems like a very poor decision.

It is obvious that under these circumstances Arbery's "fight or flight" response kicked in. Initially, he chose flight and then when he was barricaded by the truck he decided to run around the right side of it. You can see the driver side door of the truck open before Arbery changes his route and runs along the passenger side of the vehicle. It seems he was in flight mode and still attempting to avoid the confrontation.

By the time he gets to the front of the vehicle, he switches from flight to fight. It's easy for us to say "shoulda , coulda , woulda" ... his adrenaline was pumping and he was in fear for his life. A grown man running down an open street, in close distance with no cover is an easy shot for anyone with firearms experience.

I think you're spot on with your last sentence which is that these guys are idiots, had no cause to be executing a citizens arrest and instigated a lethal confrontation. There was one person defending himself and that was Arbery. If pursing an unarmed man with weapons and causing him to fear for his life, then shooting him is considered self-defense than we as a society need to seriously stand up and fight for change.

<modsnip: Trayvon Martin / Zimmerman are off topic>

 

[Cryptic]

it looks like Arbery, coming around the front of the truck, took several steps toward the guy with the shotgun (and then grabbed the muzzle presumably) before the first shot was fired.

McMichael does not appear to be blocking Arbery's way beforehand, ie, Arbery could have continued running straight ahead.
.

Arbery seems to have been defending himself against two men who chased him down, repeateldy attempted to corner him, then climbed out of a truck brandishing weapons.

My guess is that he did not believe that they only wanted to "talk to him". He then concluded that continuing to flee would lead to him getting shot down from behind. Thus, he defended himself by attempting to dis arm one of the assailants.

 

[Niner]

Friday, May 8th:
*Initial Appearance Hearing (@ 2pm ET) - GA – Ahmaud Arbery (25) (Feb. 23, 2020, shot while jogging in Satilla Shores neighborhood, Brunswick) - *Gregory Johns McMichaels (64) & Travis James McMichaels (34) arrested & charged (5/7/20) with murder & aggravated assault. Glynn County jail
GBI Director Reynolds: We are investigating everybody involved including William Bryan, the third man who filmed the video of the shooting, tried to block Ahmaud Arbery with his own vehicle, and who has not been charged.

 

[ilovewings]

These two murderers are despicable.
Thank you to the folks on here for expressing concern for this loss of life and the fact that this was very close to being swept under a rug. SHAMEFUL actions by many involved.

and it almost got swept under the table--
the scenario that led to the death of this
young man is revolting-- i have to s ay though
getting justice for this victim is no slam dunk--
just remember the man who murdered Trayvon
Marttin was acquitted

 

[fr brown]

The issue with this analysis is that any one of us could watch the video 1000 times and no one would see what happened in front of the truck as they are not visible until they both emerge to the left.

Arbery could have continued running straight, however, after being pursued by 3 armed men in a pick up truck, including one who jumped out with a shotgun, running straight seems like a very poor decision.

It is obvious that under these circumstances Arbery's "fight or flight" response kicked in. Initially, he chose flight and then when he was barricaded by the truck he decided to run around the right side of it. You can see the driver side door of the truck open before Arbery changes his route and runs along the passenger side of the vehicle. It seems he was in flight mode and still attempting to avoid the confrontation.

By the time he gets to the front of the vehicle, he switches from flight to fight. It's easy for us to say "shoulda , coulda , woulda" ... his adrenaline was pumping and he was in fear for his life. A grown man running down an open street, in close distance with no cover is an easy shot for anyone with firearms experience.

I think you're spot on with your last sentence which is that these guys are idiots, had no cause to be executing a citizens arrest and instigated a lethal confrontation. There was one person defending himself and that was Arbery. If pursing an unarmed man with weapons and causing him to fear for his life, then shooting him is considered self-defense than we as a society need to seriously stand up and fight for change.

The circumstances are eerily similar to Trayvon Martin, where in both instances there was no proof of any crime committed by the victims, they were profiled by gun-toting lunatics. McMichaels backstory of believing he was tailing a burglary suspect has no narrative fidelity , NONE. In fact the only report of a burglary in those weeks was from a vehicle owned by his family, that was left unlocked and had a firearm taken from it. The irony....

I think the grand jury might be able to tell a lot from the video. Unfortunately, one of the best witnesses is no longer with us.

There will be a lot of state of mind arguments from both sides, I imagine.

I think a citizen's arrest needs to be based on witnessing or being in the vicinity of a serious crime. Even a lot of past burglaries doesn't cut it.

<modsnip: Trayvon Martin / Zimmerman are off topic>

 

[Alpha Bravo]

I think the grand jury might be able to tell a lot from the video. Unfortunately, one of the best witnesses is no longer with us.

There will be a lot of state of mind arguments from both sides, I imagine.

I think a citizen's arrest needs to be based on witnessing or being in the vicinity of a serious crime. Even a lot of past burglaries doesn't cut it.

<modsnip: Trayvon Martin / Zimmerman are off topic>

This was tragic, but the video shows clearly that Arbery darted around the front of the truck and then attacked the one with the shotgun. In fact, even though it's not shown in the video, the autopsy says he was shot in the right palm, and that would square with him grabbing the muzzle of the gun. Unfortunately, I think this assault will negate any murder conviction. Same as with Trayvon. Yeah, it's messed up that people follow you or want you to wait for the cops, but when you assault someone then you forfeit a lot of rights. They can and must defend themselves.

There was no Grand Jury indictment here, just a kneejerk arrest to appease the mob. I see an acquittal coming down the road. The MSM esp Drudge is pasting crazy headlines, so many untrue or misleading. They didn't "Hunt him down". They told him they had called the cops, and to wait and talk to them. There is 911 recording released of their call.

 

[Alpha Bravo]

Arbery seems to have been defending himself against two men who chased him down, repeateldy attempted to corner him, then climbed out of a truck brandishing weapons.

My guess is that he did not believe that they only wanted to "talk to him". He then concluded that continuing to flee would lead to him getting shot down from behind. Thus, he defended himself by attempting to dis arm one of the assailants.

That was an unfortunate decision. <modsnip: removed opinion stated as fact>

 

[oviedo]

It seems the locals did not want this prosecuted IMO - so whether or not they are convicted may rest on who does prosecute, how strong of a case they "choose" to put on, and what the defense does with the video. I know what I see - and it looks as if he was targeted by two vehicles - which in my mind, could make this a conspiracy - we need @riolove77 or one of our lawyers to comment at some point.
JMO

 

[eagleyeseymour]

I think the grand jury might be able to tell a lot from the video. Unfortunately, one of the best witnesses is no longer with us.

There will be a lot of state of mind arguments from both sides, I imagine.

I think a citizen's arrest needs to be based on witnessing or being in the vicinity of a serious crime. Even a lot of past burglaries doesn't cut it.

And why should it? The McMichaels didn't have his criminal record in front of them. Nor did they actually make a positive identification of the mystery burglar in the neighborhood. We'll see if there is any footage at all of someone casing the neighborhood in weeks prior. Even if there is, merely resembling a suspect doesn't give an ordinary citizen the right to accost him the way they did as if he was on the FBI's ten most wanted list.

<modsnip: Trayvon Martin / Zimmerman are off topic>

This is victim blaming, when you accost someone with a firearm and they out of fear respond physically and wind up shot to death - that is self defense?

<modsnip>

They ran to confrontation with a sense of security knowing they were armed.

 

[casesensitive]

Having watched the video several times, it looks like Arbery, coming around the front of the truck, took several steps toward the guy with the shotgun (and then grabbed the muzzle presumably) before the first shot was fired. McMichael does not appear to be blocking Arbery's way beforehand, ie, Arbery could have continued running straight ahead.

That being said, I don't think the McMichaels had cause to be executing a citizen's arrest. Idiots.

The way I see it, Arbery reaches the front of the truck and sees McMichael to his left, pointing a shotgun at him. We don't know what McMichael says to him, but Arbery obviously felt threatened and tried to take the shotgun away from him. It's called self-defense. imo

 

[Alpha Bravo]

It seems the locals did not want this prosecuted IMO - so whether or not they are convicted may rest on who does prosecute, how strong of a case they "choose" to put on, and what the defense does with the video. I know what I see - and it looks as if he was targeted by two vehicles - which in my mind, could make this a conspiracy - we need @riolove77 or one of our lawyers to comment at some point.
JMO

JMHO but the video is clear, Arbery attacked and only after he grabbed and fought over the gun was he shot.
As unfortunate as this was, the chances of a conviction then, as now, are nil. At least now, we get to witness a lot more of the story, the reason they attempted to stop him, Arbery's prior issues with the law, where he actually lives, does he actually jog, all these things. Also are these two guys white supremacists as MSM claims, were they hunting him down, how many others did they hunt down, etc.

 

[sds71]

the two 911 calls

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/national-international/hear-the-911-calls-made-before-the-shooting-of-ahmaud-arbery/2389599/?_osource=SocialFlowTwt_PHBrand&__twitter_impression=true

 

[Cryptic]

That was an unfortunate decision. <modsnip: removed opinion stated as fact>

I think the conviction is going to be a slam dunk:

Strike One: The assailants had absolutely no legal justification to attempt to detain the victim. Heck, they don't even have a "maybe / good faith" reason for the citizens arrest. Say, "Well, we saw him making a young girl uncomfortable with repeated sexual references. So, we confronted him..."

Strike Two: The victim tried to retreat before defending himself.

Strike Three: The assailants repeatedly tried to corner the victim, then advanced with weapons drawn (obvious bad intent). The victim then stood his ground and defended himself.

 

[oviedo]

Ahmaud Arbery video: William Bryan under investigation; #IRunWithMaud
snipped
According to an incident report filed by Glynn County police, Arbery was shot after Gregory McMichael, 64, and his son, 34-year-old son Travis, saw him running in their neighborhood and armed themselves with guns before getting in a truck to pursue him.
------------
Why did they need to arm themselves? the young man was jogging - it seems to me they had some agenda otherwise, just call 911 and follow him slowly in the truck if you are so worried about a purported burglar
JMO

 

[sloane7777]

Ahmaud Arbery video: William Bryan under investigation; #IRunWithMaud
snipped
According to an incident report filed by Glynn County police, Arbery was shot after Gregory McMichael, 64, and his son, 34-year-old son Travis, saw him running in their neighborhood and armed themselves with guns before getting in a truck to pursue him.
------------
Why did they need to arm themselves? the young man was jogging - it seems to me they had some agenda otherwise, just call 911 and follow him slowly in the truck if you are so worried about a purported burglar
JMO

Lets be real ANYONE with a tiny piece of a brain can tell the difference between someone jogging and someone burglarizing. They wanted a confrontation that day, they could have just followed like you said, makes me sick.

 

[Alpha Bravo]

I think the conviction is going to be a slam dunk:

Strike One: The assailants had absolutely no legal justification to attempt to detain the victim. Heck, they don't even have a "maybe / good faith" reason for the citizens arrest. Say, "Well, we saw him making a young girl uncomfortable with repeated sexual references. So, we confronted him..."

Strike Two: The victim tried to retreat before defending himself.

Strike Three: The assailants repeatedly tried to corner the victim, then advanced with weapons drawn (obvious bad intent). The victim then stood his ground and defended himself.

1: Father was former LEO, one would think he is familiar with what he can and can't do. The fact he called 911 and wanted Arbery to wait for the police goes in his favor. As far as good faith or a reason to detain him, its undetermined exactly how that happened but I've heard he saw him peering into the window of a recently burglarized home under construction. We'll have to see on that one.

2. Yes, he was escaping, would not wait for LEO to arrive. (He had done this previously when caught with a gun at a ball game.) There was no reason he had to commit violence, they weren't shooting at him. The fact he got violent first goes against him, not for him.

3. They tried to talk to him and get him to stop so he could meet LEO. A lot different story if they hadn't called 911. His multiple evasive escapes caused them to continue to try to stop him to talk to LEO. Again, he was the one who precipitated violence, and hence will let all three men off the hook scot free. Not that anyone likes how this will play out, it's just what's going to happen. I can't recall ANYONE convicted of murder who was attacked first and used their gun in self defense. Maybe there is a case somewhere?

 

[tlcya]

in response to posts that seem to assume that the father and son neighborhood crime fighting duo actually told Arbery "hey we have called police - please wait until they arrive"

Is there some sort of info in MSM that they said that or anything to that effect? All I have seen thus far is this:

Gregory McMichael told police that he shouted to Arbery, “Stop, stop, we want to talk to you,” before, according to their statements, they pulled up beside him in their truck.

in addition,from the same and multiple other links: Only one burglary was reported to the Glynn County Police Department in the Satilla Shores neighborhood between Jan. 1 and Feb. 23, and it involved a pistol taken from a pickup truck outside of Travis McMichael’s home, the Brunswick News reported.

I can find no evidence that that vehicle break-in was witnessed or captured on video.

Several articles containing the two 911 calls involved in this travesty state that the 911 caller at 1:08pm is quoted as saying:

In an earlier call at 1.08pm, a different unidentified caller reports “a guy in a house right now, a house under construction”. The dispatcher asks if the man is breaking into the property, to which the caller responds: “No, it’s all open, it’s under construction.”

The caller then says, “He’s running right now, and there he goes right now,” referring to Arbery, who was taking his usual jog around the neighborhood. The dispatcher asks: “OK, what is he doing?” The caller replies: “He’s running down the street.”

A few second later, the dispatcher says: “I just need to know what he was doing wrong. Was he just on the premises and not supposed to be?”

EVEN IF the black male who was seen on the under construction property was Arbery, it is confirmed in the 911 call at 1:08 the property was not closed - erego - no breakin. Nothing to this day that I can find has been reported missing from that job site (ie. stolen/burgled/absconded with) on that day. At most he would be guilty of simple trespass. Certainly nothing that required an armed response from an alleged seasoned veteran former LEO and DA investigator.

I don't think a man who is jogging in broad daylight on a public thoroughfare, where he regularly did the exact same thing, is required to be psychically aware that:
a) a theft occurred in the neighborhood on a completely separate day,
b) that one the two visibly armed men chasing him and attempting to engage in a confrontation with him is former LE attempting some sort of ill conceived citizens arrest, and
c) that these men weren't there to rob, or otherwise harass or harm him HIM. (which they in fact fatally did)

 

[oviedo]

Lets be real ANYONE with a tiny piece of a brain can tell the difference between someone jogging and someone burglarizing. They wanted a confrontation that day, they could have just followed like you said, makes me sick.

ITA - If I was his mother, I would be doing exactly what she is doing - I really do not see this as anything other than a couple of hunters hunting a jogger - JMO

 

[oviedo]

1: Father was former LEO, one would think he is familiar with what he can and can't do. The fact he called 911 and wanted Arbery to wait for the police goes in his favor. As far as good faith or a reason to detain him, its undetermined exactly how that happened but I've heard he saw him peering into the window of a recently burglarized home under construction. We'll have to see on that one.

2. Yes, he was escaping, would not wait for LEO to arrive. (He had done this previously when caught with a gun at a ball game.) There was no reason he had to commit violence, they weren't shooting at him. The fact he got violent first goes against him, not for him.

3. They tried to talk to him and get him to stop so he could meet LEO. A lot different story if they hadn't called 911. His multiple evasive escapes caused them to continue to try to stop him to talk to LEO. Again, he was the one who precipitated violence, and hence will let all three men off the hook scot free. Not that anyone likes how this will play out, it's just what's going to happen. I can't recall ANYONE convicted of murder who was attacked first and used their gun in self defense. Maybe there is a case somewhere?

Do you have links to all of this information - I haven't seen any of this in MSM so far. No way IMO is this a self defense case. But we have a court to determine that - all we can do is wait to see what actual evidence is submitted. For now, it's just the video and how we individually interpret their actions and reactions.
JMO

 

[Longtime_lurker2019]

Y

JMHO but the video is clear, Arbery attacked and only after he grabbed and fought over the gun was he shot.
As unfortunate as this was, the chances of a conviction then, as now, are nil. At least now, we get to witness a lot more of the story, the reason they attempted to stop him, Arbery's prior issues with the law, where he actually lives, does he actually jog, all these things. Also are these two guys white supremacists as MSM claims, were they hunting him down, how many others did they hunt down, etc.

Yes the video is clear. Clearly he was executed. But by all means, continue to hold space for these disgusting murderers. I can see you and the DA would get along fine. No way on this earth was that justfied.