GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former PD and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020

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  • #301
In a brief interview with The Daily Beast on Friday, Gregory McMichael said that he had no direct evidence that Arbery was a thief targeting Satilla Shores, before teasing what could be a key part of a legal defense for the shooting.

“But he’s the guy who’s there without permission,” on English’s property, McMichael said through the closed front door of his son’s home.
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wow
 
  • #302
Wow is right! He definitely IS bold. Let justice prevail
 
  • #303
1. The owner of the house under construction was there, on the premises, at the time when someone, possibly Ahmaud, "trespassed" on his property. Unless the owner of the house is also the video-taping, co-chasing neighbor (and that doesn't seem to be the case), this owner witnessed a "trespassing" but wasn't bothered enough by it to even call LE, much less to arm himself and give chase.

2. McMichael Sr. seems to have been the first caller to 911 that day. If so, notice that he doesn't tell LE that he's going to give chase, doesn't say he's going to make a citizen's arrest, doesn't tell LE that he recognizes Ahmaud, and from available evidence, lies when he connects Ahmaud to multiple neighborhood burglaries (on both those counts).

3. In fact, even when Senior gave a statement to LE he
didn't tell them that he & junior chased Ahmaud in order to make a citizen's arrest. The police report lists Senior as a "witness," not a participant, even though in Senior's own words, he instigated the "hot pursuit of Ahmaud, and instructed Junior to grab a gun on the way out.

4. I don't know why senior & junior felt it necessary or OK to pursue Ahmaud. Lots of possibilities. But...legally, it doesn't matter. Neither had the legal right to make a "citizen's arrest." And, even if they did, that law doesn't allow them to use excessive force. Which they used even BEFORE threatening Ahmaud with drawn guns, by pursuing him in a truck, and repeatedly trying to force him off the road with that truck.

5. I don't why the video-taping neighbor got involved, nor why he felt compelled to videotape the pursuit. I'm glad he did film, and glad a defense atty leaked the footage, because it's obvious IMO that had he not, neither junior or senior would ever have been arrested.

That said, I'm just as glad that LE is now investigating him too. He wasn't just a witness, he was a participant, and a crucial one at that. Both the police report and his own video show that (at different times) he cut off Ahmaud's escape.

6. Ahmaud tried to escape his pursuers. Earlier, before the video begins, he had turned around and tried to flee back in the direction he had just been, AWAY from jr and senior. At that point, senior was in the truck. The videotaper blocked Ahmaud. Ahmaud turned again, ran again.

I can't imagine the terror he must have felt, being hunted down that way.

7. Senior lied in how he described what happened next. That's telling. But. It also doesn't matter legally, as relates to stand your ground, imo. Jr and Sr were the aggressors, start to finish, beginning when they grabbed their guns, and ending when Senior exited the truck to go stand, armed, in the open bed, facing Ahmaud as he was forced to run forward by the videotaper blocking his retreat, and when junior exited the truck, shotgun in his hands, blocking Ahmaud from running to the left, then moving towards him in front of the truck.

8. What I think I hear on the video, just as Ahmaud approaches the truck, is either junior or senior yelling at Ahmaud- "stop running, s-hithead!"

IMO, neither junior or senior intended to kill Ahmaud when they grabbed guns and chased after him. Neither do I think that junior had murder on his mind when he stepped out of the truck, shotgun in hand.

What I do believe is that both felt an extraordinarily disturbing sense of entitlement throughout, including a "right" to terrorize Ahmaud (I'm positive they knew they were doing exactly that); that both became
increasingly enraged when Ahmaud didn't "comply" with their demands, and that each made deliberate decisions to escalate their intimidation of/threats to Ahmaud.

BBM. Yeah I don't think they set out to kill him with premeditation but I also don't think they placed any value on his life whatsoever. Otherwise, why corner him and terrorize him - an unarmed man?
 
  • #304
There are two videos in MSM now of AA (the victim) at the construction site. One is short footage inside the house under construction (GBI reviewing additional video in case of Ahmaud Arbery). There is also longer footage from a house across the street from the construction site (GBI reviewing additional video footage in Ahmaud Arbery case). The latter notes some key activities in the video, and I've noted key timestamps from that video and other local news sources below.

The timestamps on the camera from across the street appear to be an hour ahead of the actual time.

2/23
- 1:08 PM – 1:15 PM 2 calls received at Glynn-Brunswick 911 Center r.e. suspicious activity in Satilla Shores (County issues statement on Arbery shooting)
- 1:08 PM (timestamp is 2:08 PM but likely an hour off based on the 911 call at 1:08 PM (which also appears to be from a person visible in the video) with AA standing outside the house under construction. He walks up, pauses near the driveway, stands, and then enters the open garage at 1:09. By 1:10 he is outside again and goes to the back of the house.
- 1:13 PM AA bolts out of the front of the house running quickly. Not visibly carrying anything.
- 1:15 PM, GM and TM get into their pickup truck in front of their house and follow AA
- 1:19 PM the first Glynn County PD responding officer was driving past the construction site in response to the calls. Another article also noted that he reported hearing gunshots upon arrival to the neighborhood ((County issues statement on Arbery shooting).
1:22 PM 2nd responding unit drives past the construction site in response.


Another relevant note about the videos:
"The GBI released in a statement:
“We are indeed reviewing additional video footage and photographs as part of the active case. It is important to note that this footage was reviewed at the beginning of the GBI investigation and before the arrests of Gregory and Travis McMichael.” (GBI reviewing additional video in case of Ahmaud Arbery)

Curious as to why in the 1st video, they are only showing a small snippet of AA in the garage. He was in there much longer than what the video shows according to the 2nd video.

And why in the 2nd video is it sped up to look like he was jogging? Looks to me like he was walking and became interested in the house when he got close to it.

Also, he looks unsure whether or not to enter as he walks up to the garage and turns around and stands in the driveway for a minute before returning to the house.

Is there video released that does not show the time sped up so that we can get real time events?
 
  • #305
In a brief interview with The Daily Beast on Friday, Gregory McMichael said that he had no direct evidence that Arbery was a thief targeting Satilla Shores, before teasing what could be a key part of a legal defense for the shooting.

“But he’s the guy who’s there without permission,” on English’s property, McMichael said through the closed front door of his son’s home.
-----------------
wow

Senior's attorney isn't gonna love that Senior now
freely admits he armed himself and went in "hot pursuit" of Ahmaud without even knowing for certain if Ahmaud had committed prior crimes (burglaries).

Neither is it going to be a "key part" of his defense that Senior knew Ahmaud didn't haven't English's permission to be on his property. How could he know that (as opposed to simply assuming that Ahmaud did not)?

In any case, Senior didn't have any legal right to "defend" someone else's property. And BTW, the $2,500 worth of fishing gear was supposedly stolen from English's unfinished house, in which he didn't live? Really?
 
  • #306
I’d like to hear from actual gun owners, who have gun through the training that think this is justified. Any one? Any one who has learned their state laws willing to say this was justifiable? I have gone through 8 hours of classroom in state of TX, shot beyond my minimum requirement for the indoor target shooting score and passed my background check. I know not each state requires the same. It’s my job as a private citizen with a CHL to deescalate situations. If some one wants to pick a fight and call my mom a 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬, so what, it words. If they threaten my life with actual violence that’s a different scenario. I can’t understand why this needs further review. They aren’t police officers. They created the situation that resulted in someone’s death. They chose to pick up their guns and confront someone. I surely can’t be the only carrier that sees an issue with this.
 
  • #307
Senior's attorney isn't gonna love that Senior now
freely admits he armed himself and went in "hot pursuit" of Ahmaud without even knowing for certain if Ahmaud had committed prior crimes (burglaries).

Neither is it going to be a "key part" of his defense that Senior knew Ahmaud didn't haven't English's permission to be on his property. How could he know that (as opposed to simply assuming that Ahmaud did not)?

In any case, Senior didn't have any legal right to "defend" someone else's property. And BTW, the $2,500 worth of fishing gear was supposedly stolen from English's unfinished house, in which he didn't live? Really?

For a guy who supposedly was in law enforcement for many years, it sounds to me like he doesn't really know "the law" and it also sounds to me like he figures it doesn't apply to him.

JMO
 
  • #308
I’d like to hear from actual gun owners, who have gun through the training that think this is justified. Any one? Any one who has learned their state laws willing to say this was justifiable? I have gone through 8 hours of classroom in state of TX, shot beyond my minimum requirement for the indoor target shooting score and passed my background check. I know not each state requires the same. It’s my job as a private citizen with a CHL to deescalate situations. If some one wants to pick a fight and call my mom a 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬, so what, it words. If they threaten my life with actual violence that’s a different scenario. I can’t understand why this needs further review. They aren’t police officers. They created the situation that resulted in someone’s death. They chose to pick up their guns and confront someone. I surely can’t be the only carrier that sees an issue with this.

So far, and this is just based off of the little information I've seen thus far, that's my assessment as well.

Nobody's property rights were really violated here, and nobody's personal rights were, either, before the father and son and the guy recording stalked this guy.

Even on the 911 call the caller says they have no idea which street they were on.

It just seems to me they followed this guy through the subdivision and escalated the situation, rather than de-escalating which is what concealed carry classes teach.

JMO
 
  • #309
In a brief interview with The Daily Beast on Friday, Gregory McMichael said that he had no direct evidence that Arbery was a thief targeting Satilla Shores, before teasing what could be a key part of a legal defense for the shooting.

“But he’s the guy who’s there without permission,” on English’s property, McMichael said through the closed front door of his son’s home.
-----------------
wow

At the point of this quote he thought he had gotten away with this crime. He had gotten his justification from the prosecutor (At his son’s home on Friday, Gregory McMichael told The Daily Beast he “never would have gone after someone for their color,” and that the “closest version of the truth” exists in a letter effectively exonerating him and his son that was written by a prosecutor who recused himself from the case, George Barnhill. ) as quoted from the same article.
 
  • #310
Just an FYI for anyone who enquired ..

The Daily Beast is an approved source at Websleuths.
 
  • #311
I would venture to say that even an actual police officer would not have exited their vehicle with a gun drawn under the exact same circumstances. And if an unarmed man who had not been charged or actually been seen committing a crime, and that same man ended up dead, that police officer would probably have been placed on administrative leave and the incident would have been thoroughly investigated. Instead, 2 DA's decided not to bring charges against father and son.
 
  • #312
Anyone know "what" happened at their initial appearance hearing on Friday? Did they get out on bond? Bond set at? Next hearing date?

TIA if someone can answer my questions - just want to keep my notes up-to-date! :) I can not access the Glynn County court site.... :(
 
  • #313
I can't think of one instance how a man's death could be considered justifiable based on a prior random burglary in the neighbourhood. I would like someone to give me a for instance.

Because once we were broken into. While we were asleep. The intruders lifted the sliding glass door out of its frame and came in through the back garden. They stole our TV and stereo equipment. They tried to steal more but my husband's tangle of cords probably was too much for them. They also stole my purse. Which was hanging on the bannister at the top of the stairs. We were sleeping. We didn't wake up. Our dog didn't wake up (although at that time, he was going deaf). If they had come into our bedroom they could have done whatever they wanted to if murder was on their minds. It wouldn't have mattered if we'd had a gun; we would have been toast.

We only figured out in the morning what had happened because when I went downstairs the drapes were blowing in the breeze through the sliding glass doors. Minutes later, a cop knocked on our door with my purse in his hand. He'd found it on a street several blocks over.

Even after that unnerving experience, neither my husband nor I ever considered getting a weapon to protect ourselves. I am a big believer that weapons are the instigators of violence rather than an amelioration of violence.

So I'd really like you to explain how killing a
human being that you 'suspect' of a petty crime is justified.

ITA
And if a random citizen had seen your thief running down the street with the TV and purse, they had no right to stalk him and shoot him.

Calling 911, yes, but surrounding him, threatening and then murdering him shouldn't hold up as any sort of defense. They certainly weren't standing their ground in any sense of the word.

As a lifetime citizen of the South where African-American men have the least power of anyone, I'm not surprised that these things happen but I continue to be saddened.
 
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  • #314
  • #315
  • #316
I don’t give a flip if this man was a thief, he was murdered. He was not committing a crime when he was shot in cold blood. All MOO.
 
  • #317
this clip shows AA inside the home

“Our office has reviewed the surveillance video which appears to show a person, believed to be Ahmaud Arbery, entering a property under construction. The individual remains on the property for under 3 minutes before continuing to jog down the road. This video is consistent with the evidence already known to us.”

GBI reviewing additional video in case of Ahmaud Arbery
 
  • #318
  • #319
Is there video released that does not show the time sped up so that we can get real time events?

This news channel link to the exterior / across the street video doesn't appear to have time speed ups or annotations. It's an extended time frame which includes quite some time before AA arrived and quite some time after he departed the home construction site.
"We chose to post the entire video clip provided, which is 22 minutes long. The man is first seen entering the frame at 13:31 in." New video in Ahmaud Arbery case offers a view of what happened moments before the deadly shooting
 
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  • #320
in reading more from the Daily Beast I found the following info:

Arbery was not armed. What he had done was visit the foundation of a home being built just down the street from Travis McMichael’s home, a new structure whose owner, Larry English, told The Daily Beast he received a notification on his cell phone of someone on his property that day. He provided footage to The Daily Beast that Brooks, Arbery’s aunt, identified as depicting her nephew.

[SNIP]

For his part, English said he felt terrible that a man may have been killed in a possible attempt at defending his unfinished home. “I want to convey my condolences to this boy’s mama. No parent should ever have to go through that,” English told The Daily Beast. “I’m holding my hat in my hand asking for forgiveness.”

Although a past $2500 theft on the property was never reported to police apparently neighbors on the block were aware of the theft/loss.

Mr. English was not present the day of the shooting and not involved in the events that day outside of remotely getting a phone notification that someone was on the under construction property and viewing the video of Arbery on the property February 23. I feel bad for him. He seems very upset that his property was the object which started the confrontation between TM GM and AA that day.

my opinion on the actions of TM and GM hasn't changed as yet but at least know I know that
a) the third man (videotaper of shooting) was "Roddy"
b) LE is the property owner of construction site
c) there was an unreported theft earlier this year of items alleged to be around $2500 as confirmed by property owner. Meaning that wasn't something just manufactured by the McMichaels at the scene of the shooting.

ETA c)
 
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