GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former PD and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020

[LietKynes]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

As far as I know... the house under construction was not the scene of a crime.
Somewhat insulting to call the deceased by that moniker.
His name was Ahmaud Arbery.

The homeowner (B. English) has stated that nothing was taken that day and that the person in the nighttime videos did not appear to look like Ahmaud -- but was instead a figure with dreadlocks (short or long, I don't know) and full arm tattoos (sleeves).
The homeowner seemed distraught that people may even assume that the McMichaels' were shown any surveillance video owned by B. English.
As any decent person would be.

 

[Jillyg]

Career as a skilled investigator and the this? Chasing down blocking AA in, 3 times.
Travis then brought a gun out of the truck which can only mean "do what say or

Assumimg? Even detaining Arbery was a crime.
Was McMicheal an ex-cop or not?

What makes you think detaining him was a crime?

 

[momrids6]

My office is in Brunswick. McMichaels was a detective for the DAs office before retirement.

Gregory McMichael worked in local law enforcement for over 30 years and previously investigated Ahmaud Arbery

 

[firebird]

I can understand peeps in a very small, and what seems cohesive neighborhood (neighborhood FB group) being concerned about trespassers. Maybe even more so if they see on a tape the same person repeatedly trespassing into the same property at night over a period of months and NOT taking anything. That's kind of creepy, imo, because it seems so irrational.

The part I don't find understandable is why those 4 told LE- not just themselves- about burglaries that hadn't happened, much less the gun- grabbing, truck chasing by Senior and Junior. And Bryan's apparently willing participation.

Burglaries don't require that anything be taken. Robberies do.

 

[branmuffin]

WOW, thanks for the link

Somebody should let the Daily Beast know that I guess. I wonder who they spoke to or how they managed to get that wrong? Or is LE receiving threats and trying to get as far away from possible from a hot mess that he has been dragged into because of the actions of the neighbors on that fateful Sunday afternoon? I don't envy this poor guy. He didn't sign up for any of this.

One was a theft of $2,500 worth of fishing equipment from English’s property, which he said he didn’t report to police but confirmed to The Daily Beast. ‘It’s Murder’: This Shooting of an Unarmed Black Man Is Roiling Georgia

ETA I was very curious as to why fishing equipment would be stored at an open new construction work site. So now I have circled back to the was ANYTHING, except TM's 9mm stolen? Was there any burglary at all aside from the removal of a gun from TM's unlocked truck some months before??

Maybe the gun was used during a felony BEFORE the gun was stolen. It's not even a requirement for a lost or stolen gun be reported in the state of Georgia. A report based on WHEN it was stolen is based solely on the reportee's information.

If someone doesn't like what I just wrote, it's an illustration of how someone can be suspected of criminal behavior without any proof.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Tone down the inflammatory comments and bickering in this thread. If members can't post in a respectful and civilized fashion, posting privileges will be removed.

 

[Hope4More]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed> The fact is the person in the night time videos doesn't look like Ahmaud. Their skin color is different. Their hairstyle is different. Their tattoos are different.

The homeowner doesn't think the night time trespasser looks like or was Ahmaud. Ahmaud's aunt readily identified Ahmaud in the video taken on English's property minutes before he was killed, but didn't identify Ahmaud as the man in the nighttime videos.

Those are credible "it wasn't Ahmaud" opinions, that I agree with, based on facts. And BTW, what Senior or Junior believed is legally entirely moot - irrelevant- if the actions they took based on their alleged beliefs were illegal.

 

[firebird]

Maybe the gun was used during a felony BEFORE the gun was stolen. It's not even a requirement for a lost or stolen gun be reported in the state of Georgia. A report based on WHEN it was stolen is based solely on the reportee's information.

If someone doesn't like what I just wrote, it's an illustration of how someone can be suspected of criminal behavior without any proof.

I don't think it's a problem to suspect someone of criminal behavior without proof. Someone in my office building takes stuff we leave in the kitchen. I suspect the cleaning crew. No problem. jmo

 

[Boxer]

What makes you think detaining him was a crime?

This is the applicable law from the GA criminal code.

2010 Georgia Code :: TITLE 16 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES :: CHAPTER 5 - CRIMES AGAINST THE PERSON :: ARTICLE 3 - KIDNAPPING, FALSE IMPRISONMENT, AND RELATED OFFENSES :: § 16-5-41 - False imprisonment

O.C.G.A. 16-5-41 (2010)
16-5-41. False imprisonment
(a) A person commits the offense of false imprisonment when, in violation of the personal liberty of another, he arrests, confines, or detains such person without legal authority.

 

[branmuffin]

I don't think it's a problem to suspect someone of criminal behavior without proof. Someone in my office building takes stuff we leave in the kitchen. I suspect the cleaning crew. No problem. jmo

Criminal behavior? "You are standing before this court being accused of removing a half eaten ham sandwich. " Sounds like a skit from Monty Python.

 

[firebird]

Criminal behavior? "You are standing before this court being accused of removing a half eaten ham sandwich. " Sounds like a skit from Monty Python.

I don't follow you here. I don't suspect the cleaning crew of stealing sandwiches (although that's still stealing), and I'm not talking about court.

 

[Hope4More]

Burglaries don't require that anything be taken. Robberies do.

Burglaries (legally) require that the entry without permission onto/into a property be undertaken for the purpose of committing a crime. No crime- theft or otherwise- no burglary.

 

[Reasonable & Just]

Not sure where you find any emotion in what I wrote. The fact is the person in the night time videos doesn't look like Ahmaud. Their skin color is different. Their hairstyle is different. Their tattoos are different.

Yes, this is really striking. And McMichaels Sr. is former LE and thus trained in observation. So what on earth were the vigilantes thinking?

 

[gngr~snap]

Melton’s new order will continue the suspension of all criminal and civil jury trials through June 12 and also bars courts from summoning and impaneling new trial and grand juries.

Chief Justice Extends State Judicial Emergency as Shelter-in-Place Orders Expire | Daily Report

 

[firebird]

Burglaries (legally) require that the entry without permission onto/into a property be undertaken for the purpose of committing a crime. No crime- theft or otherwise- no burglary.

That's wrong. There has to be intent to commit a crime, but nothing need be taken.


The Crime of Robbery
Robbery is a crime where someone takes something of value directly from someone else. While laws vary by state, the typical elements of the crime are:

• taking money or property
• directly from someone
• without permission
• with the intent to keep the property permanently
• through the use of force or intimidation.

The Crime of Burglary
States also define burglary slightly differently. But the offense usually has the following elements:

• illegally entering
• a building (usually a home or business)
• with the intent to steal something or commit a felony while inside.

OLD-TIMEY BURGLARY LAWS

In the past, most states defined burglary as forcibly breaking into another person’s home at night. Today, though, burglary statutes are generally much broader. Normally, someone can commit burglary by simply entering any type of building without permission at any time of day while intending to commit a crime once inside.
The Differences Between Robbery and Burglary

 

[Hope4More]

I don't think it's a problem to suspect someone of criminal behavior without proof. Someone in my office building takes stuff we leave in the kitchen. I suspect the cleaning crew. No problem. jmo

It becomes a legal problem if based on suspicion alone you arm yourself, chase the cleaning crew into an empty office, and with your gun pointed at them, demand that they stay immobile until LE arrives.

Though, in that case and unlike the one we're discussing, at least an actual theft would have taken place, even if the thief was one of your co-workers, not anyone on the cleaning crew.

 

[branmuffin]

I don't follow you here. I don't suspect the cleaning crew of stealing sandwiches (although that's still stealing), and I'm not talking about court.

Connecting the dots.

 

[LietKynes]

Maybe. Though I have my doubts Junior's gun was actually stolen. It would have to have been stolen from Junior's truck in broad daylight, sometime in a short, approximately 2 hour window, in the morning, and on January 1, New Year's Day, when good guess is that most of Junior's neighbors were home.

I don't doubt that Senior and Junior were extremely......interested? in the serial trespassing by someone onto English's construction site. It was Junior, after all, who made the only known report to LE about that trespasser. On English's, not his own property.

But what's telling is that Overalls was just as......interested, and just as inaccurate in equating trespasses with burglaries, as was Bryan. As was 911 caller #2, whoever he was, if he wasn't Bryan.

bbm
"Overalls"...

Good points !
My .02 is that I'm not going to risk going to prison over defending someone else's house that' under construction !!!
What was so important about defending the English's property ?
I can see defending your own home.
But not to the death against someone who was at the very worst trespassing and/or loitering.

This may be waaaay out there : But, was someone else planning to 'burglarize' the English's home ?
Was it someone else who stole the fishing equipment ?
And they wanted to pin it on someone else ?
And who would that someone else be ?
Someone known to the McMichael's ?
A person they needed to protect ?
Don't say it's too crazy as I'm reminded of another case that wasn't local to me but known to my coworker.

 

[firebird]

It becomes a legal problem if based on suspicion alone you arm yourself, chase the cleaning crew into an empty office, and with your gun pointed at them, demand that they stay immobile until LE arrives.

Though, in that case and unlike the one we're discussing, at least an actual theft would have taken place, even if the thief was one of your co-workers, not anyone on the cleaning crew.

Well that's not just suspicion and not what I'm talking about.

 

[cody22]

Marking my spot.... Best thread to read in a long time. I don't want to miss any posts.........moo