GA - Ex-POTUS Donald Trump and others indicted, 13 counts in 2020 election interference, violation of RICO Act, Aug 2023 *4 guilty* #3

[Vern]

...
The fake electors though are presenting a myriad of arguments to dispel that notion to include, but not limited to: they would only have gone through with it if Trump had been successful in court; they have cover as a federal officer and can't be tried by the state because a sitting president told them to do it and they were a 'contingent' elector so they became a federal officer; and they listened to the Trump campaign and their now co-defendant lawyers without, presumably, seeking outside counsel.
...

True enough. Your post RSBM/RBBM @BritsKate

Their very defence argument here falls flat too based upon the fact that their fraudulent electoral vote paperwork indeed made it's way all the way to the Capitol despite the fact that Trump had zero successful court cases (rather the opposite!!). On J6, their co-accused RICO cohorts attempted to have it presented to then-VP Pence for counting in lieu of the legitimate Georgia Presidential Electoral votes.

It all just goes to solidify the basis of the RICO case being made by Ms Willis IMO.

 

[Vern]

Powell's attorney too is arguing that she should be tried alone because most of the conspiracy doesn't involve her. Her attorney is arguing there's exculpatory evidence. Her involvement in Coffee Couny as alleged by the prosecutor is wrong. But all that's going to be washed away by evidence about the Constitution and elections and it would prejudice his client.

Oh Sidney
SMH ...

In your case, Ms. Willis has the literal and figurative receipts!!

Records show Sidney Powell's involvement in Georgia election breach

Sidney Powell, one of 19 people facing Georgia racketeering charges, was involved in copying of election data in Coffee County. But Powell says the case against her is weak.

www.ajc.com

A link to the darn receipt:

https://www.ajc.com/resizer/bSVJ3N9vtnox_3IycfyZQdSklv4=/800x0/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/ajc/WVJCKEVV6RAHJIKHYEGTNEEFEU.jpg

What the Heck Happened in Coffee County, Georgia?

A detailed look back at the computer intrusion that features prominently in Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis’s election interference indictment

www.lawfaremedia.org

 

[Inthedetails]

The government had asked for two weeks to submit the brief. They also said they want an Oct. 23 start date for everybody else.

From your link:
This is quite an understatement about the Judge's reaction: "but seemed skeptical of prosecutors’ arguments that all 19 defendants could be tried together that soon.

“It just seems a bit unrealistic to think we can handle all 19 in 40 days. That’s my initial reaction,” he said.

JMO

I haven't heard any concerns from the D.A. about trying everyone together or about presenting their case in October. The D.A. seems ready to go and since she has experience, I think she knows what she's doing.

But, granted, it's a huge endeavor.

jmo

 

[Vern]

That is really not the point because Trump did NOT receive more votes than Biden. Recounts were conducted, and the results were always the same: Biden won.

Even if there was still uncertainty (which there was not), there is no procedure to have "just in case" electors. The conspirators made up that process. The process does not exist. It is not legal to have a "just in case" set of electors. They broke the law.

jmo

@Inthedetails,

I think what @RaechelK is asking here is would Georgia have utilized their procedure to select TWO slates of electors from the get-go:

One which would be used if Trump won and another/different set that would have been used if Biden won
OR would the slate of electors have been the same folks (legitimate Georgia selected folks) regardless of election outcome.

We all know Biden went on to win and that Georgia's legitimate Presidential Electors were used to carry forth those votes to Washington.

 

[Inthedetails]

@Inthedetails,

I think what @RaechelK is asking here is would Georgia have utilized their procedure to select TWO slates of electors from the get-go:

One which would be used if Trump won and another/different set that would have been used if Biden won
OR would the slate of electors have been the same folks (legitimate Georgia selected folks) regardless of election outcome.

We all know Biden went on to win and that Georgia's legitimate Presidential Electors were used to carry forth those votes to Washington.

I understand the argument, but there is no legal procedure to select a second set of electors on Dec 14. It's illegal to do that. A "second set" doesn't exist.

There is one date on the calendar for one set of electors to cast votes for the one presidential winner of their state.

Electors are chosen by each of the parties. There is a set of GOP electors and a set of Dem electors. They don't both cast electoral votes - only the electors for the party of the candidate who won.

It's a goofy process, true. But there are set procedures, LEGAL procedures and the "second set" was conducting an illegal vote, signing papers illegally falsifying themselves as electors when they were not, and they sent those papers to officials. All of that was illegal and they are charged with those felonies.


jmo

p.s. Electors are people seasoned in the political process. They know the rules and broke them, illegally.

 

[Inthedetails]

For anyone confused about how electors function, a helpful resource is the National Archives.

"How are my electors chosen? What are their qualifications? How do they decide who to vote for?​

Each candidate running for President in your State has their own group of electors (known as a slate)."

"[E]ach Presidential candidate having their own unique slate of potential electors."

"The winning Presidential candidate's slate of potential electors are appointed as the State's electors"

The Electoral College

It's a Process, not a Place The Electoral College is how we refer to the process by which the United States elects the President, even though that term does not appear in the U.S. Constitution. In this process, the States (which includes the District of Columbia just for this process) elect the...

www.archives.gov

 

[RaechelK]

Thank you all for your responses.

I did find that Defendants Cathleen Latham, David Shafer and Shawn Still were real Republican electors. See https://www.archives.gov/files/electoral-college/2020/ascertainment-georgia.pdf

This case is fascinating and complex.

 

[Inthedetails]

For anyone confused about how electors function, a helpful resource is the National Archives.

"How are my electors chosen? What are their qualifications? How do they decide who to vote for?"​

Each candidate running for President in your State has their own group of electors (known as a slate)."

"[E]ach Presidential candidate having their own unique slate of potential electors."

"The winning Presidential candidate's slate of potential electors are appointed as the State's electors"

The Electoral College

It's a Process, not a Place The Electoral College is how we refer to the process by which the United States elects the President, even though that term does not appear in the U.S. Constitution. In this process, the States (which includes the District of Columbia just for this process) elect the...

www.archives.gov

By law, "On the first Tuesday after the second Wednesday in December, the electors meet in their respective States to cast their votes for President and Vice President of the United States."

In 2020, that date was Dec 14, 2020.

For that date, Dec 14, 2020, in the Georgia indictment, under Count 1 "Violation of Georgia RICO Act," there are several acts charged.

The "fake electors" were not doing anything that might have been legal - they were committing felonies.

For reference, see Act 75-87 on pages 38-43 of the indictment here:DocumentCloud

 

[Inthedetails]

Thank you all for your responses.

I did find that Defendants Cathleen Latham, David Shafer and Shawn Still were real Republican electors. See https://www.archives.gov/files/electoral-college/2020/ascertainment-georgia.pdf

This case is fascinating and complex.

They were electors selected by the party that lost the election. They had no legal right to cast votes for president. The electors selected by the Dem party were the legal electors, based on the fact that Biden won the election.

"First, the political parties in each State choose slates of potential electors sometime before the general election."

"The winning Presidential candidate's slate of potential electors are appointed as the State's electors."

bolded and underlined by me.

The Electoral College

It's a Process, not a Place The Electoral College is how we refer to the process by which the United States elects the President, even though that term does not appear in the U.S. Constitution. In this process, the States (which includes the District of Columbia just for this process) elect the...

www.archives.gov

 

[Vern]

Thank you all for your responses.

I did find that Defendants Cathleen Latham, David Shafer and Shawn Still were real Republican electors. See https://www.archives.gov/files/electoral-college/2020/ascertainment-georgia.pdf

This case is fascinating and complex.

Right but only the first 16 (none of whom include the accused) were certified appointed as "Presidential" Electors. Note that they are Democrats.

On November 3, 2020, the following sixteen people were appointed Electors of President and Vice President ofthe United States for the State of Georgia, each receiving 2,473,633 votes:
Stacey Yvonne Abrams
Van R. Johnson
Bob Trammell, Jr.
Gloria S. Butler
Pedro "Pete" Marin
Sachin Varghese
Wendy Davis
Fenika Thomas Miller
Nikema Williams
Bobby L. Fuse, Jr.
Ben E. Myers, Jr.
Cathy Woolard
Deborah Gonzalez
Rachel Paule
Steve Henson
Calvin Smyre

The date is November 3rd 2020.

Each party selects who they want to be their official Presidential Electors should their candidate win the election on November 3rd, but only the winning candidate has their parties "nominated electors" actaully certified by the State of Georgia. Ergo, none of the accused actually reached the threshold and the Republican candidates for presidential electors were not certified.

https://www.legis.ga.gov/api/document/docs/default-source/house-budget-and-research-office-document-library/newsandhighlights/2021/2021_policy_brief_georgia_elections_series_electoral_college.pdf?sfvrsn=f6f3ee0d_2

Georgia’s Role in the Electoral College

The Electoral College is the process we use to elect the U.S. president. Established in the U.S. Constitution, its purpose is to spread the power to elect the president across all 50 states. It was designed to ensure that the more populous states didn’t overpower the smaller states when choosing...

georgia.gov

 

[Vern]

By law, "On the first Tuesday after the second Wednesday in December, the electors meet in their respective States to cast their votes for President and Vice President of the United States."

In 2020, that date was Dec 14, 2020.

For that date, Dec 14, 2020, in the Georgia indictment, under Count 1 "Violation of Georgia RICO Act," there are several acts charged.

The "fake electors" were not doing anything that might have been legal - they were committing felonies.

For reference, see Act 75-87 on pages 38-43 of the indictment here:DocumentCloud

That's when the legitimate Presidential Electors cast their votes for President.

Who the legitimate Presidential Electors will be is decided in Georgia on November 3rd during the elections; I just linked in previous post.

 

[Niner]

Pretrial motions to exclude evidence are going to start coming in. Judge wants to meet weekly to discuss issues. Thursday morning is the next hearing but I didn't catch what time.

All the defendants and their attorneys irk me to no end and I think I may be a masochist following this one. No big surprises though - based on the motions filed, they really hadn't made a case for severance other than what came across to me as whining entitlement. JMO

I listened to the hearing - and no one mentioned a time - just morning....
And nothing is yet listed for these 2 in the court site yet. I shall keep an eye out.

 

[Niner]

Docket updates:

for all:
Events & Hearings
09/06/2023 MOTION MOTION
Comment: State's Motion To Restrict Jurors' Identity


Powell:
Events & Hearings
09/06/2023 CASE MANAGEMENT SCHEDULING ORDER
CASE MANAGEMENT SCHEDULING ORDER
Comment: Powell.CSSO

09/06/2023 MOTION
MOTION
Comment: State's Motion To Restrict Jurors' Identity

09/14/2023 Motions Hearing (I am inserting this)

09/29/2023 CASE MANAGEMENT HEARING
Judicial Officer: MCAFEE, SCOTT
Hearing Time: 9:00 AM

10/23/2023 SPECIAL SET TRIAL
Judicial Officer: MCAFEE, SCOTT
Hearing Time: 9:00 AM


Meadows:
Events & Heaerings
09/06/2023 MOTION
MOTION
Comment: Motion to Sever Defendant Meadows and to Stay Proceedings Pending Final Federal Decision on Removal

09/06/2023 MOTION
MOTION
Comment: State's Motion To Restrict Jurors' Identity


Clark:
Events & Hearings:
09/06/2023 MOTION
MOTION
Comment: Lodged Motion on Severance Process

09/06/2023 MOTION
MOTION
Comment: Lodged Motion on Severance Process

09/06/2023 MOTION
MOTION
Comment: State's Motion To Restrict Jurors' Identity

Cheesebro:
Events & Hearings:
09/06/2023 CASE MANAGEMENT SCHEDULING ORDER
CASE MANAGEMENT SCHEDULING ORDER
Comment: Chesebro.CSSO

09/06/2023 MOTION
MOTION
Comment: State's Motion To Restrict Jurors' Identity

09/14/2023 Motion Hearing (I am inserting this).

09/29/2023 CASE MANAGEMENT HEARING
Judicial Officer: MCAFEE, SCOTT
Hearing Time: 9:00 AM

10/23/2023 SPECIAL SET TRIAL
Judicial Officer: MCAFEE, SCOTT
Hearing Time: 9:00 AM


Hall:
Events & Hearings
09/06/2023 APPLICATION
APPLICATION
Comment: Motion for Admission Pro Hac Vice - Jeffrey Weiner

09/06/2023 APPLICATION
APPLICATION
Comment: Motion for Admission Pro Hac Vice - Yisel Villar

09/06/2023 APPLICATION
APPLICATION
Comment: Motion for Admission Pro Hac Vice - Diego Weiner

09/06/2023 MOTION
MOTION
Comment: State's Motion To Restrict Jurors' Identity


link: Fulton County Magistrate, State, and Superior Court Record Search

 

[BritsKate]

I haven't heard any concerns from the D.A. about trying everyone together or about presenting their case in October. The D.A. seems ready to go and since she has experience, I think she knows what she's doing.

But, granted, it's a huge endeavor.

jmo

My only real concern is it potentially opens an appellate issue the size of a mack truck if you force defendants to trial in less than 2 months when they're not ready. My own personal nightmare scenario is that all my wildest dreams are answered and Donald Trump, criminal defendant, becomes Donald Trump, convicted felon and his conviction gets overturned on appeal thereby robbing me of my utopia where there are consequences to the actions of the powerful and restoring some of my faith in a badly damaged system.

I'm not a Georgia taxpayer so it's easy for me to say this but I'd happily endure 3 long as hell trials to ensure this is done as right as it can be. JMO

 

[Inthedetails]

That's when the legitimate Presidential Electors cast their votes for President.

Who the legitimate Presidential Electors will be is decided in Georgia on November 3rd during the elections; I just linked in previous post.

The National Archives link above outlines the calendar and procedures.

They were chosen by the GOP before the election - that part was legit. No problem.

What was illegal is they cast votes for president when ONLY the electors from the winning party can do that legally.

The criminal charges are for what they did on Dec 14.

The crimes happened when they pretended to be electors who could vote for president, when they could not.

I don't know how else to explain it. Carry on.

jmo

 

[BritsKate]

The National Archives link above outlines the calendar and procedures.

They were chosen by the GOP before the election - that part was legit. No problem.

What was illegal is they cast votes for president when ONLY the electors from the winning party can do that legally.

The criminal charges are for what they did on Dec 14.

The crimes happened when they pretended to be electors who could vote for president, when they could not.

I don't know how else to explain it. Carry on.

jmo

You're right, of course. But a couple of reminders for folks not closely following this case - 8 fake electors in Georgia also opted to cooperate with the State and received immunity. And this was actually a multi-state conspiracy. There were fake electors chosen in Arizona, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Nevada, and New Mexico too and they all signed paperwork attempting to cast electoral ballots for Trump instead of their state's actual winner - Joe Biden. (There are investigations and both criminal and civil cases pending in some of these places.) I think it's real easy to lose sight of just how massive this plan was and how many people were involved.

The "alternate slates" were part of the White House plan for contesting the election. As Trump advisor Stephen Miller described on television on December 14, the alternate electors were intended to replace those electors certified by their respective states based on election results. The strategy was explicitly spelled out in the John Eastman memo: the existence of "competing" slates of electors was intended to provide justification for Congress to disallow the results from the seven states. All of the alternate elector certificates were prepared with similar language, formatting, and fonts, as reported, thus indicating that the state actions were coordinated. The Washington Post and CNN reported in January 2022 that Giuliani led Trump campaign officials in coordinating the plan across the seven states.

Trump fake electors plot - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Niner]

Updated: 9/7/23:

GA - Violations of Georgia election laws. 19 defendants. Trump has been charged with 13 criminal counts:
• Violation of the Georgia RICO Act
• Solicitation of violation of oath by public officer (4 counts)
• Solicitation of violation of oath by public officer
• Conspiracy to commit forgery in the first degree
• Conspiracy to commit false statements and writings (2 counts)
• Conspiracy to commit filing false documents
• False statements and writings (2 counts)
• Filing false documents

Thursday, 9/14/23 – Motions Hearing - Cheesebro & Powell

Monday, 9/18/23 – (Clark): Hearing Motion (State to Fed Court & removal evidentiary hearing & (Still): Removal evidentiary hearing

Wednesday, 9/20/23 – Judge to hear motion (State to Fed court) & removal evidentiary hearing. David Shafer & Cathleen Latham.

Friday, 9/29/23 – Case Management hearing – Cheesebro & Powell

Monday, 10/23/23 – Trial date for Cheesebro & Powell

Monday, 12/11/23 – Motions Hearing- All

Monday - 2/20/24 – Final Pretrial Conference Hearing All

Monday, 3/4/24 – Proposed trial date (which will be changed as the DC 2020 Election case is on that date).

 

[Inthedetails]

You're right, of course. But a couple of reminders for folks not closely following this case - 8 fake electors in Georgia also opted to cooperate with the State and received immunity. And this was actually a multi-state conspiracy. There were fake electors chosen in Arizona, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Nevada, and New Mexico too and they all signed paperwork attempting to cast electoral ballots for Trump instead of their state's actual winner - Joe Biden. (There are investigations and both criminal and civil cases pending in some of these places.) I think it's real easy to lose sight of just how massive this plan was and how many people were involved.

Trump fake electors plot - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

After delving into the "what if Trump won" scenario regarding the fake electors, I have changed my mind about the Electoral College. I used to think it was sorta weird and unnecessary but I don't think that any more!

Imagine if Trump himself said after the election results and recount and recount and recount proved he lost said, "Well, what if I won?" and just stayed in the White House? I can imagine his supporters saying, "Yeah, what if he won?" and we'd never get the literal loser out of office.

With the electoral college, at least we have the protective layer of the states casting the vote for president through their electors. One state couldn't topple the process, but it takes a conspiracy. And...thank goodness, it didn't work.

I now see the electors as a (somewhat flimsy) protection of democracy. I didn't see myself coming to that conclusion, but the "what if Trump won" question when it was proven repeatedly he did not win got me thinking.

jmo

 

[Vern]

The National Archives link above outlines the calendar and procedures.

They were chosen by the GOP before the election - that part was legit. No problem.

What was illegal is they cast votes for president when ONLY the electors from the winning party can do that legally.

The criminal charges are for what they did on Dec 14.

The crimes happened when they pretended to be electors who could vote for president, when they could not.

I don't know how else to explain it. Carry on.

jmo

I know. They are selected on 3 November ... based upon who wins the vote on election night.

The accused were NOT selected/certified on 3 Nov because the Republican candidate lost the vote ... by 11 800 votes. Ergo, here we are and we can all carry on. You don't need to explain this to me - I get it.

I was posting in response to the previous question posed about "how and when" electors were chosen. The process.

Edit to add:

The answer to the original posters question is: Yes, had Trump actually won in Georgia on 3 Nov, then the three RICO-indicted co-accused would have been amongst the legitimate Presidential Electors who would have met on 14 December to cast their Presidential Electoral Votes on behalf of the state of Georgia. But, Trump was 11800 votes short and ergo they were not certified as the Presidential Electors.

But, the three co-accused are not just mere random cockroaches who crawled willy nilly out of the woodwork to falsly and fraudulently claim to be legitimate electors, they were cockroaches who had been selected by their party in advance of the 3 November Election in hopes that their candidate had won. He didn't.



While on this subject: What really bothers me about these electors however is the fact that the GOP actually nominated Hampton et al to be their choice for Presidential Electors (should Trump have won) despite the fact that Hampton had already had a proven history of Voter Supression tactics in Coffeee County that caused her to be removed well-prior to the 2020 election.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/02/politics/georgia-coffee-county-breach-voters/index.html

Really Georgia GOP - Is she the best you've got?? That doesn't speak much for your party ethics there.

 

[BritsKate]

This is slightly off topic but tangentially still relevant - especially in light of recent discussion - so I hope the mods allow it.

She then added, “I can tell you that in the last few weeks, just some incredible minds. And from what I understand, you know, you have the federal constitutional law, and then you have state statutes, um, and they’re two different things. So, what we did, uh, along with seven other states, really send in dueling electors, and that will be there before, um, you know, a federal constitutional attorney, and it’ll be before, uh, Mike Pence and Congress to make that decision.”

Michigan fake elector admitted to collusion with Trump lawyers in radio interview: report

According to a report from CNN's KFiles, one of the Michigan fake electors who has been charged with eight felony charges by Attorney General Dana Nessel for her part in a plot to help Donald Trump steal the 2020 election admitted during an interview in 2020 that she was the recipient of help...

www.rawstory.com

------------
And I know this really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things but I take issue with referring to the likes of Giuliani or Powell as 'incredible minds'. By the way, this lady also referenced 1960 as her basis probably because the memo drafted by Chesebro uses that as a primary argument for installing fake electors.

(The Hawaii slate of electors were actually certified by the Governor before the Congressional vote - which is the key point Chesebro willfully ignores.)

JMO