GA - Former President Donald Trump indicted, 10 counts in 2020 election interference, violation of RICO Act, 14 Aug 2023

[JurassicParker]

Freedom of Speech doesnt give the President the right to call people and tell them to "find votes" so that he can illegally turn over the results of an election. He's a traitor to this country as far as I'm concerned. He lost. He needs to move on like every other President before him.

Why is this so hard to understand? JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Hand counting of paper ballots is very prone to errors. When an election is hand counted, it is always recounted by another set of workers and many times the results are not the same. Eyes get tired, a ballot is missed, human error etc.

iirc, the problem in Coffee County was with the Dominion scanner that was counting the paper ballots--and rejecting many of them-- and an adjudicator raised a red flag.

JMO

 

[crussell821]

BBM for focus.

So do you think Willis should have said "nah, he's got plenty of charges against him already so I won't bother"?

I'm not sure I'm getting your point.

‘Listen Bob, we know you raped, tortured, and murdered this woman but we’ll drop the rape charge. It’s just too many!! You’re welcome! *kisses*’

 

[MyBelle]

Freedom of Speech doesnt give the President the right to call people and tell them to "find votes" so that he can illegally turn over the results of an election. He's a traitor to this country as far as I'm concerned. He lost. He needs to move on like every other President before him.

Why is this so hard to understand? JMO

Yes, Freedom of Speech does give the President--and anyone else, btw--the right to make a phone call. Trump did not threaten anyone.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Building a case takes time, especially when there are MANY co-defendants. I feel sure that that was just one investigational step in this case. We've seen so many cases here at WS, from beginning to end, that took even longer, with only one defendant.
Ms. Latham is in the "find out" stage and she only has herself to blame.
IMO.

Nearly three years and TWO grand juries to bring charges? I've not seen another case on WS that is remotely comparable.

JMO

 

[Leilei]

iirc, the problem in Coffee County was with the Dominion scanner that was counting the paper ballots--and rejecting many of them-- and an adjudicator raised a red flag.

JMO

I don't recall that. Do you have a link, please? Interested in reading further.

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

I know it's going to sound terrible but I honestly believe what Trump did in his quest to overturn the results of a free and fair election is worse than murder. I realize it doesn't meet the legal requirements of treason but to me his actions were nothing less than treasonous and have left incalculable, global ramifications in their wake.

A murder occurs one time and is relatively local to family, friends, and the victim/perpetrator's communities. This is a crime still in action that is slowly but surely eroding trust in democracy itself for millions of people and creating a great deal of uncertainty and volatility that has worldwide impact.

Another great post @BritsKate

Not to open a whole new can of conversational worms, but I have long thought that the reason he is so popular and won the race the first time is all due to the advent and rise of social media and all that it touches and shapes. It is a powerful tool and this is the ugly consequence IMO. Indeed, the ramifications are so far reaching and history changing, and history making... amplified again and again thanks to our new "god", i.e., social media.

IMO, of course.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Yes, Freedom of Speech does give the President--and anyone else, btw--the right to make a phone call. Trump did not threaten anyone.

JMO

So what was Trump telling him and his lawyer they're going to be in criminal trouble if they don't do what he's demanding?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Q. So why did Fani Willis request the special grand jury in the first place, Bob?

A. In a Thursday letter to Christopher S. Brasher, chief judge of Fulton County’s Superior Court, Willis said the move was needed because a “significant number of witnesses and prospective witnesses have refused to cooperate with the investigation absent a subpoena requiring their testimony.”

Fulton DA requests special grand jury for Trump probe

Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis is requesting a special grand jury to aid in her investigation of former President Donald Trump and his efforts to overturn Georgia’s 2020 election results.

www.ajc.com

Q. So who approved the formation of this special grand jury?

A. Brasher issued an order Monday saying the request was considered and approved by a majority of the superior court judges.

Judges approve special grand jury in Georgia election probe

Judges have approved a request for a special grand jury by the Georgia prosecutor who’s investigating whether former President Donald Trump and others broke the law by trying to pressure Georgia officials to throw out Joe Biden’s presidential election victory.

apnews.com

Q. So do you think those judges considered the formation of the special grand jury to be prosecutorial overreach?

A. LOL

 

[BritsKate]

The DOJ investigations into Trump began once Attorney General Garland was confirmed in March of 2021. DA Bragg brought charges against Trump, in 2023, for crimes committed in 2015-2017.

I really just don't get the enmity towards Willis when, by all accounts, she has a very strong case. And her case and Smith's J6 case are remarkably similar.

And Trump is a criminal defendant which means a) he is NOT afforded the same rights as someone not subject to criminal proceedings against them which Judge Chutkan was pretty clear about; and b) speech can become criminal when using it to pursue a conspiracy to commit crimes. He's not being charged for making a phone call - he's being charged with making a phone call IN FURTHERANCE to commit election fraud. He's not being charged with lying. He's being charged with making false statements IN FURTHERANCE to defraud the United States.

And, I gotta say, not to anyone in particular but the general understanding of the 1st amendment is often wrong. It does not afford one the opportunity to say whatever they want, whenever they want, without consequence. It was, imo, initially intended to protect citizens speaking out against government and exercising their religious beliefs when America was still a very new concept.

Does that mean you can say absolutely anything to anyone at any time? Absolutely not. The Supreme Court and lower courts have identified nine types of speech that are not protected under the First Amendment [source: First Amendment Center]:

• Obscenity
• Fighting words
• Defamation (including libel and slander)
• Child pornography
• Perjury
• Blackmail
• Incitement to imminent lawless action
• True threats
• Solicitations to commit crimes

These particular types of speech are unprotected because they either actively break the law, incite others to break the law, or create a potentially violent or unsafe situation. Obscenity arguably has proven the most difficult to define. In the 1973 Supreme Court case Miller v. California, the justices established a three-part test to determine whether a publication, movie, image or work of art is "obscene." In general, such a work is protected as free speech if, "taken as a whole," it has at least some "serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value" [source: Legal Information Institute].

10 Rights the First Amendment Absolutely Does Not Grant

Thanks to the First Amendment, people in the U.S. can say whatever they want, wherever they want without fear of prosecution. Er ... not quite.

people.howstuffworks.com

 

[JurassicParker]

Yes, Freedom of Speech does give the President--and anyone else, btw--the right to make a phone call. Trump did not threaten anyone.

JMO

That's not the point. He still told them to falsify the results. He's aloud to talk but he committed a crime by exercising his First Amendment and is now paying the price. He's a crooked liar.. He deserves everything he gets.

 

[Inthedetails]

Georgia counted their ballots THREE TIMES.

"Georgia’s top elections official on Monday recertified the state’s election results after a recount requested by President Donald Trump confirmed once again that Democrat Joe Biden won the state, and the governor then recertified the state’s 16 presidential electors.

'We have now counted legally cast ballots three times, and the results remain unchanged,' Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger said during a news conference at the state Capitol before the results were recertified."

Georgia again certifies election results showing Biden won

ATLANTA (AP) — Georgia's top elections official on Monday recertified the state's election results after a recount requested by President Donald Trump confirmed once again that Democrat Joe Biden won the state, and the governor then recertified the state's 16 presidential electors.

apnews.com

bbm

 

[MyBelle]

I don't recall that. Do you have a link, please? Interested in reading further.

I no longer have the link but I do recall it was tied to the Curling v. Raffensperger case.

JMO

 

[Leilei]

Nearly three years and TWO grand juries to bring charges? I've not seen another case on WS that is remotely comparable.

JMO

Special GJ and regular GJ are not the same thing, respectfully.
IMO.

 

[Friday Fan]

That's not the point. He still told them to falsify the results. He's aloud to talk but he committed a crime by exercising his First Amendment and is now paying the price. He's a crooked liar.. He deserves everything he gets.

It's no longer first amendment when you are asking someone to commit a crime. If you ask someone to falsify records and they do, you're part of the crime. Even if no crime is committed, you can be charged. Trump via his position of POTUS has power and authority that others are not afforded.

Solicitation to Commit a Crime Under the Law

Learn about the crime of solicitation, an inchoate crime that involves seeking out another person to engage in a criminal act, and common defenses.

www.justia.com

 

[BritsKate]

Special GJ and regular GJ are not the same thing, respectfully.
IMO.

You're right though. And I refuse to retype info I've posted 3 times now so here's a copy and paste with a link.

Special grand juries are used for an expansive topic that takes longer than a single term of court to investigate and often has to do with public corruption, Prosecuting Attorneys’ Council of Georgia executive director Pete Skandalakis said.

“It’s usually because it’s a very labor-intensive investigation that’s going to take a while to do,” he said, adding the investigation could involve calling witnesses, poring over documents and consulting experts.

“The election case would be an ideal case for a special purpose grand jury,” Porter said.

That’s because it’s likely a complex case with a lot of witnesses and potential logistical concerns that will take more time and focus than a regular grand jury is able to spend, he said.

EXPLAINER: What's a special grand jury and how does it work?

ATLANTA (AP) — A prosecutor who’s investigating possible attempts by former President Donald Trump and others to interfere in the 2020 general election in Georgia on Thursday called for a special grand jury to help move the case along.

apnews.com

 

[Inthedetails]

I no longer have the link but I do recall it was tied to the Curling v. Raffensperger case.

JMO

There was a link on the tread previously (yesterday?). Scroll up to see the exchange. The link included a statement that there is no evidence of vote count issues in previous elections. I remember it because I quoted it.

I wear seatbelts today and going forward because they provide safety. When I was kid, we didn't wear seatbelts. Whether or not I wear a seatbelt today does not indicate I was injured by lack of seatbelts in the past....because I wasn't injured! That's a fact, but I still want seatbelts and airbags because improvements are worthwhile.

But improvements are not evidence of past harm.

New voting machines might be required in GA, but there is no evidence - despite looking for it! - of voting fraud or miscounts in 2020. Biden won.


jmo

 

[MyBelle]

It's no longer first amendment when you are asking someone to commit a crime. If you ask someone to falsify records and they do, you're part of the crime. Even if no crime is committed, you can be charged. Trump via his position of POTUS has power and authority that others are not afforded.

Trump didn't ask anyone to commit a crime. He truly believed election fraud had been committed in multiple states and members of my own family who voted for him believed it.

Georgia has charged Trump and other defendants for tweets and phone calls asking for phone numbers and for tweets that encouraged his supporters to watch election hearings being televised. Last I checked, Freedom of Speech is still a protected right.

The GA Indictment is one of the most laughably absurd documents I've ever read. The fact that Trump's indictment was published prior to the Grand Jury even voting just proves how low the DA is willing to go.

JMO

CRIMINAL INDICTMENT

www.documentcloud.org

 

[sds71]

Mark Meadows seeks to move Fulton County election case to federal court

Former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows officially filed Tuesday to move the election interference case brought against him in Fulton County into federal court.

abcnews.go.com

 

[JennieM]

Trump's court and campaign schedule is looking chaotic​

Trump faces 4 March 2024 trial just a day before Super Tuesday

His trial for alleged election interference is set for 4 March, 2024 - a day ahead of Super Tuesday.

www.bbc.co.uk