GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 2

[Rhyolite]

I haven't seen DNR make the statement but earlier today on this thread it was discussed and a local said the location of the lake was too North in the state for gators and something about the type of water.

This was also linked:
American alligators are found in the southeast United States: all of Florida and Louisiana, the southern parts of Georgia,

Alligator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quoting an opinion FROM THE THREAD as FACT is circular logic. It is like CNN, The Daily Mail and the MH370 situation.

 

[Plumeria5]

NW of the Dermond's across the lake on the map it shows an icon for vacation rentals.
Is that a sales office or an actual rental? It would be quite convenient and a straight shot just across the lake. I'll see if I can find the map I had. Maybe some of you have already seen it.

 

[LaurieHavens]

I just want to say how impressed I am how on the ball this site is. You post updates lightning quick I have noticed. I read more than I post, but I just wanted to compliment you!!

Terrible story about this couple. Probably someone they knew or was probably about money, IMO. ?? I'll read and learn.

 

[gngr~snap]

on the sinclair side, the dam pushes and pulls water just like the tide in the ocean but slower however it's still quite fast and you can sit and watch shtuff float by all day

but that is on top of the water

On the other hand, we lost a lightweight metal chair in a storm, found it 6 years later, right beside the dock underwater, never moved it appeared once it sunk, however, it doesn't float and there are no gases

I think she was dumped near the dam or atleast away from her place, too many curves in the river, wouldnt' she have gotten hung up elsewhere and sooner? And I dont'think the current would be as swift if dragging along the bottom of the lake or if anchored

That is my opinion, that due to that hair pin turn she would have gotten hung up.
I am not sure she was alive when placed in the water.
If the lake is frequented for night fishing and she was thrown in alive wouldn't a fisherman trolling the area have heard her screams?
She could have been gagged.

The fisherman that found her said at first he thought it was a buoy and it was near the middle of the lake

I don't like the way Sills said when the camera was on, "you want the stench of death? Here I'll rub it in you"

HOW RUDE!
Moo
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[Carolinapeach]

That is my opinion, that due to that hair o in turn she would have gotten hung up.
I am not sure she was alive when placed in the water.
If the lake is frequented for night fishing and she was thrown in alive wouldn't a fisherman trolling the area have heard her screams?
She could have been gagged.

The fisherman that found her said at first he thought it was a buoy and it was near the middle.

I don't like the way Sills said when the camera was on, "you want the stench of death? Here I'll rub it in you"

HOW RUDE!
Moo
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I didn't like that either. it was uncalled for.

 

[eddie willers]

I didn't like that either. it was uncalled for.

What was the question that proceeded his remark?

The Sheriff was upset and in no mood to suffer fools gladly.

 

[atthelake]

I was just thinking the same thing. I don't think someone in pj's is enough to determine if they were murdered. I think it has something to do with ligatures or maybe something around her neck. I find it strange that he is so open about the fact it definitely is murder at this point...before autopsy.

Obviously, it's going to be murder, but how can he express this so publicly? Even if someone had rocks in their pockets doesn't always suggest murder. There has to be something about her body, not injuries, but maybe the way her hands were tied, or something that shows 100% she couldn't have got herself in that position without help.

I would venture to guess that a woman in her middle 80's... who's husband was found decapitated...and then wife found in the lake... yeah, 99.999999999999999% was murdered. As you stated.... "Obviously, it's going to be murder"...so you both are thinking alike

 

[gngr~snap]

The only gators feeding in Eatonton are graduates of The University of Florida. It's been too cold for them to feed.

"They stop feeding when the ambient temperature drops below approximately 70° F (21° C) and they become dormant below 55° F (13° C)"
Eatonton Ga.
May 2 2014 low 53° high 73°
http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KMLJ/2014/5/2
/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

http://m.myfwc.com/media/310266/Alligator_Rice_A.pdf

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[atthelake]

Atlanta is southern anymore.


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How about Adel/Sparks :seeya:

 

[maedlamsmom]

Please understand that by asking this I am by no means implying Mrs did do anything. Clearly, she also was a victim. But, I came late to this case, and am wondering why, in the beginning, when she was gone and Mr. found dead, she was not thought to be possibly responsible? What about the scene made the pd immediately rule this out? Just her age? They typically allow for every possibility in the first stages of an investigation. Those of you with the case from the beginning, was she always termed a victim? I ask bc I am wondering what we are not being told about the crime scene. It may answer how the pd can say it is "most definitely a murder" when there are no signs of trauma.

 

[eddie willers]

Please understand that by asking this I am by no means implying Mrs did do anything. Clearly, she also was a victim. But, I came late to this case, and am wondering why, in the beginning, when she was gone and Mr. found dead, she was not thought to be possibly responsible? What about the scene made the pd immediately rule this out? Just her age? They typically allow for every possibility in the first stages of an investigation. Those of you with the case from the beginning, was she always termed a victim? I ask bc I am wondering what we are not being told about the crime scene. It may answer how the pd can say it is "most definitely a murder" when there are no signs of trauma.

87 is more than just old.

Beheading was assumed to be beyond her physical capabilities.

 

[bessie]

Please understand that by asking this I am by no means implying Mrs did do anything. Clearly, she also was a victim. But, I came late to this case, and am wondering why, in the beginning, when she was gone and Mr. found dead, she was not thought to be possibly responsible? What about the scene made the pd immediately rule this out? Just her age? They typically allow for every possibility in the first stages of an investigation. Those of you with the case from the beginning, was she always termed a victim? I ask bc I am wondering what we are not being told about the crime scene. It may answer how the pd can say it is "most definitely a murder" when there are no signs of trauma.

Sheriff Sills actually answered this question.

Is she a suspect?
“Given the totality of the circumstances, (Mrs. Dermond’s) age and the deceased’s, we certainly don’t consider her a suspect. There is certainly nothing to indicate that and everything to indicate that she has been abducted in some manner.

http://www.msgr.com/news/local_news/article_21ca8162-db9c-11e3-ae50-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[Backwoods]

Please understand that by asking this I am by no means implying Mrs did do anything. Clearly, she also was a victim. But, I came late to this case, and am wondering why, in the beginning, when she was gone and Mr. found dead, she was not thought to be possibly responsible? What about the scene made the pd immediately rule this out? Just her age? They typically allow for every possibility in the first stages of an investigation. Those of you with the case from the beginning, was she always termed a victim? I ask bc I am wondering what we are not being told about the crime scene. It may answer how the pd can say it is "most definitely a murder" when there are no signs of trauma.

At the very beginning, the sheriff didn't say it was completely ruled out but let it be known that he did not think that very plausible. I believe the main reason he gave was her age considered with the fact that Mr. Dermond's body had "been moved" -- we are not sure how far, really.

 

[Backwoods]

I don't know if anyone ever linked the newscast that includes a brief interview with one of the fishermen who found Mrs. D. and a statement read over the phone by the wife of the other fisherman -- some of us were wanting to see it. Found it:

Fishermen find body of missing Putnam County woman

at: http://www.wsbtv.com/videos/news/fishermen-find-body-of-missing-putnam-county-woman/vCbPZT/

 

[Rhyolite]

The only gators feeding in Eatonton are graduates of The University of Florida. It's been too cold for them to feed.

"They stop feeding when the ambient temperature drops below approximately 70° F (21° C) and they become dormant below 55° F (13° C)"
Eatonton Ga.
May 2 2014 low 53° high 73°
http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KMLJ/2014/5/2
/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

http://m.myfwc.com/media/310266/Alligator_Rice_A.pdf

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Thanks, Interesting references. I am no expert on gators, but have lived around them since 1984. Not the ones who throw a ball, but the ones that chew bumpers from cars in Sanibel Island and the Everglades.

Also this is mating season for alligators so they are much more active and protective.

If a female gator found itself in a garage, under a warm freshly parked automobile, who knows...

There are really no absolutes here. Arguably, the temperature is not ideal, but at same time not absolutely too cold.

Also from weatherunderground:

Week of April 27, 2014 through May 3, 2014
Mean Temperature 73 °F Max 68 °F Avg 63 °F Min

 

[Migmuu]

Please understand that by asking this I am by no means implying Mrs did do anything. Clearly, she also was a victim. But, I came late to this case, and am wondering why, in the beginning, when she was gone and Mr. found dead, she was not thought to be possibly responsible? What about the scene made the pd immediately rule this out? Just her age? They typically allow for every possibility in the first stages of an investigation. Those of you with the case from the beginning, was she always termed a victim? I ask bc I am wondering what we are not being told about the crime scene. It may answer how the pd can say it is "most definitely a murder" when there are no signs of trauma.

I'm assuming it was her age, the fact that there was no history of her ever being violent, and she would have had no motive to kill her husband (especially in such a vicious way).
87-year-old women often have trouble sitting up without a cane. They're not going to have the physical strength to cut a person's head off.

The police are probably basing the ''most definitely a murder'' statement on 1) the circumstances of her disappearance, and 2) the fact that she was found almost 6 miles from home. The latter implies that someone brought her to the lake.
Then again, maybe there were signs of trauma. If she's been in that lake the whole time, her body would have been pretty decomposed and the effects of decomposition could have masked the less obvious signs of trauma. We'll have to wait and see what the medical examiner says.

 

[Backwoods]

I'm still not totally convinced that everything was done by boat. I mean -- it's very likely, especially with Shirley found where she was. But I'm just not able to rule out other possibilities (drove in the gate, came in on foot from the perimeter somewhere).

If perp/s drove in, it's still possible they could have used the lake as a place to "dispose of" Shirley. Drove somewhere else on the lake, with a ramp or something. Or to another location and THEN used a boat. After all, it's a big body of water -- one of the favorite spots, it seems, for murderers to dispose of remains.

 

[Advocate1]

This is driving me bonkers ... no matter what theory you believe of what led up to the killings, the fact they left Mr. D in the garage yet took Mrs. D away & dumped her in the lake makes absolutely no sense. No matter if it was a serial killer, a vengeful neighbor/relative/friend/enemy, a random deranged/drugged person, what reason could there be to not leave Mrs. D there also??

I guess the way I see it would be asking why leave Mr. Dermond's body in the garage and decapitated and not in the lake with the Mrs?
Only thing I come up with is the murders were staged to leave a message and if the beheading wasn't clear enough there was the unknown whereabouts of the Mrs for all this time. If this is the case then the message was for someone very close to these people. Sure wonder more about the "weird phone calls" their son Keith said the family has received since they found out about Mr. Dermond's death.

 

[Backwoods]

I'm assuming it was her age, the fact that there was no history of her ever being violent, and she would have had no motive to kill her husband (especially in such a vicious way).
87-year-old women often have trouble sitting up without a cane. They're not going to have the physical strength to cut a person's head off.

The police are probably basing the ''most definitely a murder'' statement on 1) the circumstances of her disappearance, and 2) the fact that she was found almost 6 miles from home. The latter implies that someone brought her to the lake.
Then again, maybe there were signs of trauma. If she's been in that lake the whole time, her body would have been pretty decomposed and the effects of decomposition could have masked the less obvious signs of trauma. We'll have to wait and see what the medical examiner says.

bbm: Yep, the sheriff said "no glaring signs of trauma", I think -- and he might not have looked all that closely. I hope they are able to determine COD without much problem. Hopefully time of death, too -- though I guess that's not too likely at this point.

 

[atthelake]

That is my opinion, that due to that hair pin turn she would have gotten hung up.
I am not sure she was alive when placed in the water.
If the lake is frequented for night fishing and she was thrown in alive wouldn't a fisherman trolling the area have heard her screams?
She could have been gagged.

The fisherman that found her said at first he thought it was a buoy and it was near the middle of the lake

I don't like the way Sills said when the camera was on, "you want the stench of death? Here I'll rub it in you"

HOW RUDE!
Moo
Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

After following trials, and my lifestyle of "atthelake* in the area... a few comments IMHO/MOO etc. This was at the time when the weather wasn't too hot to have ac on...and many would perhaps, atthelake, have their windows open. If you haven't lived on the lake, you cannot perhaps comprehend how sound travels... e.g. a conversation and amorous occasions being heard by neighbors across the lake 6 football fields is not unheard of.

That said - I believe that the Ms. was not alive and wailing for help being taken away in the boat (nope, no gators.... hopefully that discussion is GONE) as the sound would have carried far and wide. Those who live on lakes will *get it* as to sound travelling so far - therefore I discount that there was yelling.

So..next logical inference (MOO :moo is that she was incapacitated upon leaving the house. Or at her age, perhaps silenced by being threatened if she was fragile, but.... I haven't heard such.

As to getting that far downstream.... another story which more information is needed.

Thoughts are...:moo:

When she was deceased, she would fall to the bottom of the waterway. Deceased individuals do not float upon death, they sink (tell that to the Pinellas 12 again) so she would have dropped to the floor of the waterway at that time. After a time, for days, she would have refloated to the water line due to body decomposition and gasses within her body as it bloated.

The distance from the waterway of the house access to where she was found...leads me to believe that she was carried from not only the house...but down the waterway in a boat due to.........I cannot FATHOM that a body would float down the waterway such a distance on the top of the water for such a long period without being noticed.