GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 8

[Bootsctr]

And I'll volunteer my services to track/trace/ weave the web of phone calls. I got very good at it after those policeman knocked on our door and said "dead family member."

You're hired! I'm so sorry you had that experience though. I hope your family member received justice.

 

[Bootsctr]

I had been viewing the full articles @ E Messgr til today. How much is the subscription? Your hubby is very perceptive, imo.
Know what you mean about driving spouses batty discussing dark cases. Most folks don't want to go there...
Yep, not a coincidence, imo..

It's 99 cents for one day. I'll have to check again, but I think it was $20 for a year. I'll make sure. Just thought it was worth it and I signed up to be able to post comments so if I get locked in the closet again I'll be able to post there. Hubby's first question was (Thank you Charming Lane) was did Mr. Dermond have gold teeth? :thud: He definitely did not want to go there.

 

[Bootsctr]

IMO the person(s) who committed this crime continue to pose a danger. Someone capable of doing this, for whatever their reason, is dangerous.
If this crime was committed to cover something up and someone gets close to uncovering the truth or suspicious of the perpetrator they are in danger.
If it was a thrill kill...danger.
Investigators must believe that the residents of Putnam county are not in danger of this preson(s) randomly targeting them. However, if this person lives there or visits there...someone might be in danger if they manage to cross paths in the same way the Dermonds did.

That's me. I wouldn't want to come across this person in any form. I'd be the one to come across him alone on a trail or open the door when the doorbell rang.

 

[Vedder]

My two cents: The Derby party was probably a neighborhood get-together, probably very casual. There was no club-sponsored Derby party other than a Derby watching happy hour at one of the clubhouses that did not require an RSVP. Nobody around here is a big bettor at little events like that. $10, maybe. Reynolds members were known as CARP's at the Ritz until management banned that expression. Stands for Cheap Reynolds People.

Don't believe the security camera not working was a factor.

She was weighted down--local talk. Put this down to gossip if you will.

I believe K D knew absolutely nothing about the Nuwaubians. His remark was a "grasping at straws" statement.

BBM I totally agree with this statement. The beheading of his father, with the head gone from the scene, was so beyond any type of rationality that the mind goes toward a sick, depraved group of individuals - "cult". MOO

 

[Foxfire]

Good question! My opinion changes with the wind direction. Right now, I am totally convinced it is one person... Ocean convinced me with her excellent theories and bring up Scott Peterson and how he was able to conceal a pregnant Laci in a very small boat. Mrs. Dermond was not pregnant and would have been much easier to handle and dump.

I would love to know Foxfire's opinion on one or two perps. (hint, hint)

Two or more Bootsctr. Investigators were likely able to determine the number of perps with their shoe print investigation mentioned a few days in, combined with other evidence/indicators. Hopefully the crime scene wasn't too contaminated before the print/s were noticed.

 

[southernmimi]

Two or more Bootsctr. Investigators were likely able to determine the number of perps with their shoe print investigation mentioned a few days in, combined with other evidence/indicators. Hopefully the crime scene wasn't too contaminated before the print/s were noticed.

Two or more perps sounds more like a hit, although I've never really believed they were the target of a planned hit. However, it's much more difficult to get numerous people on target for something so heinous and violent and more difficult to keep them quiet. I've read all the comments and news releases on this crime, and have become more confused over time. Of course, we have very little real information so it's difficult to process and assess everything...no way to make it logical.

 

[Rhyolite]

He has said that he believes it's someone who knows the D's. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the D's do not know any Nuwaubians. The D's likely know many Baptists, though, and Catholics -- and there are far, far more murders committed in Georgia by people who identify as (for instance) Baptist or Catholic (and the Nuwaubians have never been convicted of a murder) -- so in my opinion, scapegoating the Nuwaubians makes even less sense than blaming Baptists or Catholics, which would also be grossly unjust (and was just presented here as an illustration of a point).

It may be someone who is of NC but does not represent the group as a whole. Meaning it could be a small lone group of "true believers" who are acting out retribution to perceived or real harm done to the community by Sills. The target chosen randomly to represent Sills "Flock".

Then again, perhaps more likely "UNGAT" since we really have no evidence other than the bodies, their condition and locations found.

 

[Foxfire]

Sure wished that some of the locals and other Guests that are viewing this thread would register and join in the discussion. In many of these heinous crimes past, as well as active cases. We have had locals and even family members of the victims contribute in the discussions.. Their participation has been invaluable in collecting and connecting the dots..
Just saying...

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/son-putnam-victims-blames-cult-moms-disappearance/nfyJ2/

 

[Foxfire]

Imo, time is overdue for Sheriff Sills to request additional investigative resources in the Dermond's murders.. The perp/s responsible are obviously very evil sadistic psychopathic predators, imo. All of the usual traits left in their wake seem obvious. With each innocent victim's soul devoured without being apprehended, they become more brazened and empowered. It is not a matter of, if they will re-offend, but when, imo.

http://criminalminds.wikia.com/wiki/Roger_L._Depue
In this first-person account of becoming the FBI’s top serial-killer hunter and a member of a religious order in an attempt to discern the true nature of good and evil, Roger L. Depue searches for an understanding of how evil develops.

Between Good and Evil is Depue’s look back at a life spent apprehending criminals, especially serial killers, first as a small-town police chief, then an FBI-SWAT team member, Behavioral Sciences Unit chief, and a developer of revolutionary law enforcement programs.

The book also examines R.L. Depue’s experience studying with the Brothers of the Missionaries of the Holy Apostles in an attempt to discover why a good person like his wife, whom he had lost to cancer, is allowed to die while monstrous criminals get to live.

Following his time in the clergy, Depue returned to law-enforcement and today heads one of the world’s most elite think tanks; 'The Academy Group Inc.'..
http://www.academy-group.com/depue.html

Between Good and Evil: A Master Profiler's Hunt for Society's Most Violent Predators
Depue moves from stories of violence and cruelty to a search of self-salvation and peace of mind. ... Between Good and Evil moves from bone-chilling to enlightening.
http://myshelf.com/miscellaneous/05/betweengoodandevil.htm

 

[Foxfire]

Quotes by Roger L. Depue:

My work has given me a profound respect for what humans suffer at the hands of evil, and a particular sensitivity for what its victims endure. During every investigation that I participate in, there is always an invisible observer at my shoulder, whose presence I never forget. Regardless of the circumstances of a case, I am always giving voice to its silent victim.

What must this young girl’s final minutes have been like? Did she cry out while he was repeatedly stabbing her, or keep silent, breathing like a wounded animal, watching for the next glint of a blade? Did her thoughts turn to her parents in those final seconds, when she was overwhelmed by the deepest loneliness she had ever known? Did she experience a dissociative response, the sense of drifting upward and watching her own death as if from above? Or did she sink mercifully into unconsciousness, and feel nothing as her life ebbed away?
____________________

Roger L. Depue “Between Good and Evil” Author & Retired FBI BAU Profiler:


My job has been to try to stop human predators before they kill again, and after studying them so closely over so many years, to me their traits seem clearly recognizable.

Evil is more than a vague notion. It is an entity, and it is manifest on the earth. It has reflexes and intuition, senses vulnerability, and changes its form to adapt to its surroundings. Those who do not believe the Devil walks this earth have not seen the things that I have seen.

Evil is not a discrete entity that springs forth fully formed. It is born in the mind, takes root there as fantasy, and prospers when normal human restraint can no longer contain it. I have seen it devour the personalities of men like Richard Speck, Jeffrey Dahmer, and Ted Bundy, turning them into blank-faced sociopaths who clearly know right from wrong, but choose, time and again, to follow their own base urges, with complete disregard for the terrible human suffering they cause.

I believe that every act of homicide causes a slight unbalancing in the world, and that it diminishes life’s universal equation. In the interest of justice, it is imperative that someone try to right that imbalance. But the task of fighting evil can take a terrible toll on the people who are charged with it. It can cost them their families, their equilibrium, their capacity for joy.

 

[MotherOcean]

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I deleted my LinkedIn account after getting freaked out about privacy issues!

 

[Bootsctr]

Quotes by Roger L. Depue:

My work has given me a profound respect for what humans suffer at the hands of evil, and a particular sensitivity for what its victims endure. During every investigation that I participate in, there is always an invisible observer at my shoulder, whose presence I never forget. Regardless of the circumstances of a case, I am always giving voice to its silent victim.

What must this young girl&#8217;s final minutes have been like? Did she cry out while he was repeatedly stabbing her, or keep silent, breathing like a wounded animal, watching for the next glint of a blade? Did her thoughts turn to her parents in those final seconds, when she was overwhelmed by the deepest loneliness she had ever known? Did she experience a dissociative response, the sense of drifting upward and watching her own death as if from above? Or did she sink mercifully into unconsciousness, and feel nothing as her life ebbed away?
____________________

Roger L. Depue &#8220;Between Good and Evil&#8221; Author & Retired FBI BAU Profiler:


My job has been to try to stop human predators before they kill again, and after studying them so closely over so many years, to me their traits seem clearly recognizable.

Evil is more than a vague notion. It is an entity, and it is manifest on the earth. It has reflexes and intuition, senses vulnerability, and changes its form to adapt to its surroundings. Those who do not believe the Devil walks this earth have not seen the things that I have seen.

Evil is not a discrete entity that springs forth fully formed. It is born in the mind, takes root there as fantasy, and prospers when normal human restraint can no longer contain it. I have seen it devour the personalities of men like Richard Speck, Jeffrey Dahmer, and Ted Bundy, turning them into blank-faced sociopaths who clearly know right from wrong, but choose, time and again, to follow their own base urges, with complete disregard for the terrible human suffering they cause.

I believe that every act of homicide causes a slight unbalancing in the world, and that it diminishes life&#8217;s universal equation. In the interest of justice, it is imperative that someone try to right that imbalance. But the task of fighting evil can take a terrible toll on the people who are charged with it. It can cost them their families, their equilibrium, their capacity for joy.

Thanks for posting Foxfire! I have got to read this book. Just watched an A & E program that featured Carl Eugene Watts.

"Watts' time as a serial killer began when he was 20 years old in 1974, by kidnapping his victims from their homes, torturing them, and then murdering them. On October 30, 1974, Watts tortured and brutally murdered 20-year-old Gloria Steele, who was believed to be his second victim.[1]

Watts killed females between the ages of 14 and 44 using methods such as strangulation, stabbing, bludgeoning, and drowning. Watts murdered dozens of women between 1974 and 1982, and despite the many women he murdered, he was not discovered as a serial killer for almost eight years.[1]

There were several reasons for this. He attacked in several different jurisdictions and even different states. Even with the advent of DNA testing it was still nearly impossible because he rarely performed sexual acts on his victims; his crimes were not thought to be sexually motivated. Watts was questioned for murder in 1975, but there had not been enough evidence to convict him; although he had spent a year in prison for attacking a woman, who survived.[4]

Canadian authorities believe Watts may have crossed the border into Windsor that October, assaulting 20-year-old Sandra Dalpe outside her apartment, leaving her near death with multiple wounds to the face and throat. By that time, Watts had fallen under scrutiny from local homicide investigators. A task force was organized in July 1980 to probe the Sunday slashings, and Watts was placed under sporadic surveillance; a November court order permitting officers to plant a homing device in his car.[5]

Watts was diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder.[6]"

Carl Eugene Watts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He was nearly set free in Texas until the state of Michigan stepped in and prosecuted him after eye-witness testimony in the murder of Helen Dutcher. He claimed to have killed 40 women and implied there were more than 80 victims in total and he's still considered a suspect in 90 unsolved cases. Evil man. Died of prostate cancer in prison.

 

[bessie]

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I deleted my LinkedIn account after getting freaked out about privacy issues!

Can't say I blame you. How ironic.

 

[bessie]

The thread is open for posting again. Please review the rules at the beginning of the thread. And before you speculate about an individual, first verify the connection, and be sure to link your source(s).

There will be no more warnings.

Thanks.

 

[tomkat]

http://www.13wmaz.com/story/news/local/2014/06/24/no-new-leads-in-dermond-murders/11327969/

Most of the time, the victim, or at least somebody associated with the victim has some ties to some criminal activity. That, at this point in time in our investigation we have not found that," he says.

Yeah, it's early yet...............Seems to be backing down on some of his earlier statements ?????????????????

If you don't know, you don't know, if you have no leads, you have no leads

AGAIN: The defiintion of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results

Time for some creative thinking "outside the box?"

 

[JustyThoughts]

BBM

I'm with you. I don't think anyone else is in danger. The perp(s) will slip up and their identity(ies) will be discovered. The answer lies in who stood to gain with the Dermond's demise. :twocents:
IMHO

Respectfully snipped and BBM

......My fear is that someone else is going to die at the hands of this perp. I do not think no one else is in danger, targeted crime or not. There is no way Sills could think no one else is in danger. He knows what he is dealing with... someone capable of decapitation. This is a great horror and there is no way that community is safe!

After nearly 2 months time paired with following here and in the media, I have to conclude that there is the danger that the perp(s) will act again - somewhere at sometime. Whatever the reason or motive for the murders, the method of death/beheading, and moving Mrs. D's body out into a lake leads me to conclude that the person(s) responsible could and will act again if not arrested. In my opinion, there was a lot of "personal contact" with the victims and that leads me to think the perp would do it again. To clarify "personal contact", I'm referring to: beheading a victim and taking the head, killing the second victim and then moving/handling the body to get it into the lake 5 miles away.

I think the longer the perp(s) "get away" with not being arrested or named as POI, they will become more bold. My hopes and prayers is that there will be an arrest very soon.

 

[Rhyolite]

"Time for some creative thinking "outside the box?" "

Suppose this mystery is being looked at backwards?

Suppose that this was not a murder.

Suppose that this started as an accident.

Suppose that the Dermonds, who once owned a boat, often took their boat to meet a freind living on another portion of the lake.

Suppose that now without a boat themselves, the Dermonds now accept rides from their friend.

Now, suppose that the friend, after a night of entertaining and drinking, motors the Dermonds back home as he/she often has.

Now suppose that on this night, the boat runs up into some sunken trees and the passengers, R & S are hurled about in the boat, incurring blunt force fatal injuries and thrown into the water on this dark night.

Now suppose in the panic, the person motored and searched for his/her friends, in the process, inadvertently decapitates RD with the propeller and loses sight of SD.

The friend then hauls RD's body onto the boat, and in a panic realizes that he/she has just killed two people and is that he/she is criminally intoxicated.

Now that person, having failed to find SD, decides to place RD back into his garage in order to confuse the crime scene, perhaps intending to do same with SD should he/she be able to locate her body before daylight. But fails.

Thoughts?

 

[Suthrnqt]

"Time for some creative thinking "outside the box?" "

Suppose this mystery is being looked at backwards?

Suppose that this was not a murder.

Suppose that this started as an accident.

Suppose that the Dermonds, who once owned a boat, often took their boat to meet a freind living on another portion of the lake.

Suppose that now without a boat themselves, the Dermonds now accept rides from their friend.

Now, suppose that the friend, after a night of entertaining and drinking, motors the Dermonds back home as he/she often has.

Now suppose that on this night, the boat runs up into some sunken trees and the passengers, R & S are hurled about in the boat, incurring blunt force fatal injuries and thrown into the water on this dark night.

Now suppose in the panic, the person motored and searched for his/her friends, in the process, inadvertently decapitates RD with the propeller and loses sight of SD.

The friend then hauls RD's body onto the boat, and in a panic realizes that he/she has just killed two people and is that he/she is criminally intoxicated.

Now that person, having failed to find SD, decides to place RD back into his garage in order to confuse the crime scene, perhaps intending to do same with SD should he/she be able to locate her body before daylight. But fails.

Thoughts?

Sounds as good as any other theory here.

 

[Canaille]

"Time for some creative thinking "outside the box?" "

Suppose this mystery is being looked at backwards?

Suppose that this was not a murder.

Suppose that this started as an accident.

Suppose that the Dermonds, who once owned a boat, often took their boat to meet a freind living on another portion of the lake.

Suppose that now without a boat themselves, the Dermonds now accept rides from their friend.

Now, suppose that the friend, after a night of entertaining and drinking, motors the Dermonds back home as he/she often has.

Now suppose that on this night, the boat runs up into some sunken trees and the passengers, R & S are hurled about in the boat, incurring blunt force fatal injuries and thrown into the water on this dark night.

Now suppose in the panic, the person motored and searched for his/her friends, in the process, inadvertently decapitates RD with the propeller and loses sight of SD.

The friend then hauls RD's body onto the boat, and in a panic realizes that he/she has just killed two people and is that he/she is criminally intoxicated.

Now that person, having failed to find SD, decides to place RD back into his garage in order to confuse the crime scene, perhaps intending to do same with SD should he/she be able to locate her body before daylight. But fails.

Thoughts?

But, it was stated that the decapitation was a clean cut. I'm not sure a propeller on a boat motor would make a clean cut.

 

[Montjoy]

Interesting theory, to be sure, but I have to think that the medical examiner, not to mention the investigators, would have been able to rule it out fairly easily.