GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 9

[Backwoods]

Not the Dermond case, but same neck of the woods -- some familiar names and places:

Putnam deputy shot, wounded near Lake Sinclair


...Upon hearing about the shooting, Sills, who was out of town in North Carolina, sent a text message to the alleged gunman. The sheriff also left him a voicemail message.


"Just telling him to give himself up," Sills said. "He's got a history with us going back a number of years." ...

more at: http://www.macon.com/2014/11/26/3448001/putnam-deputy-shot-wounded-near.html#wgt=rcntnews


Hmmm...wonder what the sheriff is doing up in North Carolina?

Sounds like the wounded deputy is gonna be OK.

And ...a happy and blessed Thanksgiving to all the faithful followers of this thread!

 

[Fifth Avenue]

It is possible that this horrific crime was a random act of violence, but doesn't seem very likely.
Questions must be asked and I am sure LE has, who would profit from their deaths, seems they were a wealthy couple.
It is also possible that crime scene was staged.



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[Zuri]

:welcome6: To Fifth Avenue and True Crime Lover!

 

[Foxfire]

It is possible that this horrific crime was a random act of violence, but doesn't seem very likely.
Questions must be asked and I am sure LE has, who would profit from their deaths, seems they were a wealthy couple.
It is also possible that crime scene was staged.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

<BBM for Focus>

Welcome to Websleuths, Fifth Avenue... Guess, anything is possible, but most random acts of violence are impulsive crimes by disorganized offender/s. The Dermond abduction/decapitation/murders indicate an organized crime; carefully pre-planned to insure the lack of forensics and meticulously executed by multiple offenders/savages. The signs, patterns, and evil aura residue left at the crime scene/s should be obvious to Sheriff Sills, imo. These clues, left in their wake, although not visibly obvious to many seasoned homicide investigators; 'love, rage, hatred, fear, evil'... because they can't be touched, seen, smelled, or heard..should easily reveal the true motive to Sheriff Sills; Retribution, imo

Seems that if a family member, friend, or neighbor/slight acquaintance, etc., of the Dermonds were involved. They would have known about their plans to attend the Kentucky Derby party<rsvp>, and would have likely been concerned that someone would have conducted a timely welfare check to see why they were no shows the night of the party..

The Dermond's home phone number was listed and their address easily obtained. A google map search of their private wooded cul-de-sac address would show the easy access from the lake, etc..
Imo, this heinous crime was carried out by professionally trained assassins, likely paramilitary. It seems obvious to me that the motive was not monetary, but was to send a very clear message, and to produce the intended results which we are witnessing now, seven months later..
_______
Decades of detective work have never produced a case more confounding for Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills.
"I go to sleep every night thinking about this case&#8230;and I wake up every morning thinking about this case,"Sills said. "And I'm not exaggerating at all."
But Sills believes it was planned, pre-meditated and gruesome. "You can't make me believe there was any kind of randomness to this crime," Sills said.
Six months have passed, and the case drives Sills crazy.

"Why have I not solved that murder," he said.

The community seems safe. Serene. Even the crime scene was calm: no break-in, nothing stolen, no murder weapon or sign that the murders even happened there.
Sills still has hope that somehow the lake, or the home, or the records of the Dermonds life will become a lead -- that hope will heat up this case as it now becomes cold.
'A Lake without Leads: Putnam Co. murders remain a mystery' <sniped & BBM - Read More @ Link below>

Russell J Dermond, Russell D Dermond, 147 Carolyn Dr, Eatonton, GA 31024, (706) 485-2586.
http://www.allareacodes.com/reverse-phone-directory/706-485/

http://www.11alive.com/story/news/l...10/lake-oconee-murder-putnam-county/18811169/

 

[Foxfire]

"Happy Thanksgiving to all"!

 

[Foxfire]

http://ericahutton.blogspot.com/2011/03/psychological-associations-of.html
http://books.google.com/books/about/Profiling_Violent_Crimes.html?id=dzAy2Uf5b30C <Ronald M Holmes & Stephen T Holmes - Profiling Violent Crimes: An Investigative Tool>

The Psychological Associations of Dismemberment in Crime Scenes

Out of the heinous actions and routines that are perceived to be typical and sadistic in nature, the dismemberment of a victim appears to be on an entirely new level of hate.

Dismembering a victim illustrates an extreme notion of abhorrence towards the victim, psychologically dismissing their existence and disregarding them as being of any value whatsoever (Holmes & Holmes, 2002). The perpetrator that elects to dismember their victim desires to eliminate their existence, refusing to acknowledge them on a conscious level; furthermore, taking their body apart is perceived to be gratifying sexually and psychologically necessary.

There is an underlying psychological competition associated to dismembering victims and the situation is not finalized until mutilation is complete. This individual receives psychological gratification from killing and harming others and takes their time in doing so. They also tend to be hands on in their killing, so they will use their hands for torturing them or hands-on weapons.

Dismemberment appears to be one of the most dehumanizing acts that a killer can take in committing a crime. Due to the level of psychological competition and power utilized to take control and dominate their victim, dismemberment provides an opening for self-magnifications to surface and such action more often than not, reaffirms their own sense of worth.
<sniped - read more>

___________________________

Interesting read: corporeal semiotics --> page 38
http://books.google.com/books?id=2y...AEwAg#v=onepage&q=corporeal semiotics&f=false

 

[watcher9]

Years ago, there was always speculation that a person would have to have medical knowledge or certain instruments in order to behead their victim but it sure seems like there are more and more of cases showing up that prove this not to be true. Some do it just because they are angry, high or want to hide evidence. Whatever excuse, they do it because they can. Beheadings has been going on since the beginning of time. It will be interesting to find out the reason why the Dermonds were killed when or if this case is eventually solved.

Just the other night on one of the true crime/forensic shows there was a case back in 1982 where two teenagers were beheaded and dismembered. The step father was wrongly convicted and sentenced to death row for the crime but later set free. It took over 20 years before the real guilty men were arrested for the crime. Here's one of many links about it.
http://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Pages/casedetail.aspx?caseid=3798

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

http://ericahutton.blogspot.com/2011/03/psychological-associations-of.html
http://books.google.com/books/about/Profiling_Violent_Crimes.html?id=dzAy2Uf5b30C <Ronald M Holmes & Stephen T Holmes - Profiling Violent Crimes: An Investigative Tool>

The Psychological Associations of Dismemberment in Crime Scenes

Out of the heinous actions and routines that are perceived to be typical and sadistic in nature, the dismemberment of a victim appears to be on an entirely new level of hate.

Dismembering a victim illustrates an extreme notion of abhorrence towards the victim, psychologically dismissing their existence and disregarding them as being of any value whatsoever (Holmes & Holmes, 2002). The perpetrator that elects to dismember their victim desires to eliminate their existence, refusing to acknowledge them on a conscious level; furthermore, taking their body apart is perceived to be gratifying sexually and psychologically necessary.

There is an underlying psychological competition associated to dismembering victims and the situation is not finalized until mutilation is complete. This individual receives psychological gratification from killing and harming others and takes their time in doing so. They also tend to be hands on in their killing, so they will use their hands for torturing them or hands-on weapons.

Dismemberment appears to be one of the most dehumanizing acts that a killer can take in committing a crime. Due to the level of psychological competition and power utilized to take control and dominate their victim, dismemberment provides an opening for self-magnifications to surface and such action more often than not, reaffirms their own sense of worth.
<sniped - read more>

___________________________

Interesting read: corporeal semiotics --> page 38
http://books.google.com/books?id=2y...AEwAg#v=onepage&q=corporeal semiotics&f=false

WOW, narcissism at it's maximum

Was visiting friends for Thanksgiving, drove down to the Lawrence shoals then realized that was (I think) close to where Shirley was found, walked to the boat ramp, pretty quiet there. You could see the dam.

I'm pretty sure she was knocked out/killed at home. After looking around, and being where the killers may have been it's awakening, the killers surely put in there at the ramp, shirley was driven by boat to the dump location , killers exited at the lawrence shoals as if they had just been doing night fishing. Have a picture of the root system of the cypress trees when I was in FL, when water was down. Surely killers wanted her ensnared in that mess, and if it looks like that in the stumps where she was sunk.

After being there today, I am sure the water didnt' carry her that far from home and no reason to dump her at home if they wanted to dumper her at all, she was relocated to confuse things pretty sure. Otherwise they could have just left her with him. He was left for a reason, the beheading was a message, haven't followed this much until recently, been looking at property at sinclair and oconee so this case has been in the forefront of my mind of late.

The person that wanted them dead is still in the area, not sure if that is the same person that did the actual killing or if it was hired.

Quite emotional

Need the "why " and the "who"

It was a message, he knew something or saw something. Russells photo that was first posted on the internet seems to show a man that is no-nonsense and who knows what he's seen or done in his lifetime.

Just making observations

Thanks

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I am wondering if dismemberment of the whole body and only beheading the victim are different in their psychological reasons.

 

[Foxfire]

I am wondering if dismemberment of the whole body and only beheading the victim are different in their psychological reasons.

The killer that elects to dismember their victim(s) is one that is visionary in nature. The sexual component is not as important as believed, but rather it is the mission, the voice of their internal demise that drives them to engrave their hate into another (Holmes & Holmes, 2002).

<sniped - read more>
http://ericahutton.blogspot.com/2011/03/psychological-associations-of.html

Good posts and food for thought, dancinunderthemoon.
As an avid fisherman of GA lakes patrolled by DNR. Many times day or night, DNR is apt to check boaters/fishermen for proper licenses, safety equipment, etc. Imo, Shirley Dermond was alive until reaching the area where she was recovered. Imo, she was used as a shield/hostage, in case of a routine DNR check enroute to the boat ramp..

Also, one of the perps was possibly witnessed by a neighbor according to Sheriff Sills. It is possible that the perp thought security or 911 may have been contacted by the curious neighbor..

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

just reaffirming, the confusion bought the killers time, i think everyone is pretty much on board with that already, just voicing my recent feelings after being at lawrence shoals

Such a tragedy

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

The killer that elects to dismember their victim(s) is one that is visionary in nature. The sexual component is not as important as believed, but rather it is the mission, the voice of their internal demise that drives them to engrave their hate into another (Holmes & Holmes, 2002).

<sniped - read more>
http://ericahutton.blogspot.com/2011/03/psychological-associations-of.html

Good posts and food for thought, dancinunderthemoon.
As an avid fisherman of GA lakes patrolled by DNR. Many times day or night, DNR is apt to check boaters/fishermen for proper licenses, safety equipment, etc. Imo, Shirley Dermond was alive until reaching the area where she was recovered. Imo, she was used as a shield/hostage, in case of a routine DNR check enroute to the boat ramp..

If she witnessed the entire debacle, she would be in shock and easily do as told mabe, so that is possible but I do believe that she was meant to be dumped there, to confuse and buy time. This does appear that the killers were not amateurs or this done in a moment of passion (sts), or a robbery, I do believe they would have left a mess and the bodies

Going to read your link

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

The killer that elects to dismember their victim(s) is one that is visionary in nature. The sexual component is not as important as believed, but rather it is the mission, the voice of their internal demise that drives them to engrave their hate into another (Holmes & Holmes, 2002).

<sniped - read more>
http://ericahutton.blogspot.com/2011/03/psychological-associations-of.html

seems to be a similar act as rape, power, and then some

Dismemberment is or has been used as a means of hiding the body/evidence, whereas this case, it surely depicts hate for sure, but clearly not for hiding the body as in many dismemberments. I guess they could have just as easily dumped them both (or left them both), that is what many (normal) people find so baffling about this case I suppose. But the reason I dont' think the beheading was for hiding bullet evidence. They left him for a reason it seems

 

[watcher9]

Did we ever hear anything more about the man seen by a neighbor in the Dermonds yard?
A description?
An explanation?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Did we ever hear anything more about the man seen by a neighbor in the Dermonds yard?
A description?
An explanation?

If I recall correctly, their was a man, was it lakeside? with no description or explanation. no description is odd, seems that they wouldn't know it was a man if they couldn't recall anything else. Really would like to know more on that. What was "he" doing at the time he was seen? What time of day? Which side of the property was he seen? Near water or at house? Looking at what? Doing what? This is tragic, seems like he would have come forward if he knows he was seen there, OR NOT, if he's guilty of course, so maybe something to that.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

If I recall correctly, their was a man, was it lakeside? with no description or explanation. no description is odd, seems that they wouldn't know it was a man if they couldn't recall anything else. Really would like to know more on that. What was "he" doing at the time he was seen? What time of day? Which side of the property was he seen? Near water or at house? Looking at what? Doing what? This is tragic, seems like he would have come forward if he knows he was seen there, OR NOT, if he's guilty of course, so maybe something to that.

Wondering if maybe the Person/Man seen on property came back "looking for something", I don't see they'd linger longer (no pun intended) than just getting the crime done and leaving, but clearly was affiliated with the crime or he would have come forward as whoever was there on Saturday, KNEW they were there then. Seems logical it would have happened late into the dark when eveyrone was probably asleep, night fisherman won't even be noticed exept by other night fisherman or teens partying on dock or by lakeside fire who probably wouldn't even pay attention. The Derby party would not have begun before mail was delivered on Saturday I think, but most would be distracted getting ready and doing whatever before heading out so I dont' think the derby party was the distraction to get the crime done other than many wouldn't be around, chances they'd get discovered saturday night though was big if anyone had checked on them that night. Clearly weren't close enough for anyone to think anything amiss since they did RSVP I understand,

Who would think this would have happened though, but a close close friend would have continued looking for them and they should have been discovered saturday or sunday at the latest or since the duaghter was an equine guru, was she curious about the party and the outcome of bets etc? You'd think she would have been calling Sunday to chat, but clearly they didn't have contact unless family had contacted neighbor who found them to check on them

Oh well, gotta get over this, driving me nuts

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

wow the similarity in appearance and stare, just watched whitey bulger last night, this to me was astounding, nothing being implied here, must noticed the tough cold stare

 

[wildebeest]

:goodpost:

It is possible that this horrific crime was a random act of violence, but doesn't seem very likely.
Questions must be asked and I am sure LE has, who would profit from their deaths, seems they were a wealthy couple.
It is also possible that crime scene was staged.

:goodpost:

Fifth Avenue --- you are thinking along the same lines as I have been from the start. LE should look closely at those individuals who stood to gain from the Dermond's death. Someone was hired to commit these dreadful acts, and most likely got carried away during its commission. Very twisted... :twocents:

IMHO


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Backwoods]

If I recall correctly, their was a man, was it lakeside? with no description or explanation. no description is odd, seems that they wouldn't know it was a man if they couldn't recall anything else. Really would like to know more on that. What was "he" doing at the time he was seen? What time of day? Which side of the property was he seen? Near water or at house? Looking at what? Doing what? This is tragic, seems like he would have come forward if he knows he was seen there, OR NOT, if he's guilty of course, so maybe something to that.

I'm just going on my own recall here, too, but, FWIW: I think when we first heard about this supposed sighting, it was "through the grapevine", a rumor -- and that early mention did specify "a neighbor" saw someone.

By the time (a good bit later) it hit MSM in a quote from the sheriff, the person was "a caller" -- which prompted me to wonder if it could possibly have been an ANONYMOUS caller. (Then, too, it still COULD have indeed been a neighbor, who, understandably, did not want to be identified as such in MSM, for fear of retribution from someone.)

The lack of detail IS puzzling, but I guess if it was just a quick glance, thinking nothing of it at the time, the person making the sighting might just not have taken in much detail to remember later. Of course, it could have been a more detailed report and the details just have not been made public, for various investigative reasons.

Another thing that has crossed my mind is that, neighbor or other reporting, the person who made the report could have ended up being mistaken about the day they saw the person, or which yard, etc. -- in other words, it could have all come to nothing.

I hope not -- I hope it is a true "clue"!

Just some thoughts...

 

[Foxfire]

I'm just going on my own recall here, too, but, FWIW: I think when we first heard about this supposed sighting, it was "through the grapevine", a rumor -- and that early mention did specify "a neighbor" saw someone.

By the time (a good bit later) it hit MSM in a quote from the sheriff, the person was "a caller" -- which prompted me to wonder if it could possibly have been an ANONYMOUS caller. (Then, too, it still COULD have indeed been a neighbor, who, understandably, did not want to be identified as such in MSM, for fear of retribution from someone.)

The lack of detail IS puzzling, but I guess if it was just a quick glance, thinking nothing of it at the time, the person making the sighting might just not have taken in much detail to remember later. Of course, it could have been a more detailed report and the details just have not been made public, for various investigative reasons.

Another thing that has crossed my mind is that, neighbor or other reporting, the person who made the report could have ended up being mistaken about the day they saw the person, or which yard, etc. -- in other words, it could have all come to nothing.

I hope not -- I hope it is a true "clue"!

Just some thoughts...

Hey Backwoods, found the thread where we were discussing the person witnessing a man walking in the D's yard.. Bumping it.

Sniped from WS Dermond Thread 06-24-2014, 11:44 PM Comment #31 -->
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-2-4-May-2014-8/page2&p=10661519#post10661519

Quote Originally Posted by Backwoods View Post
It was good, at least, to hear something of the case back in the news again.

One thing I noted from the 13WMAZ coverage earlier in the day was that the person who said she saw -- "from a distance" -- "a man" walking in the Dermonds' yard that Saturday was described as "a caller" -- not necessarily a neighbor, as I think we had been thinking with an earlier, elusive (not ever posted on the news site that aired the report) version. To me, "a caller" means it COULD be a neighbor, but it could be someone else -- someone boating or fishing, maybe. (Frankly, I'd be a little nervous if it was me, and the word was out that it was a NEIGHBOR'S report...if the person sighted even had anything to do with the Dermonds' deaths.)

13WMAZ ran a report on the 11 p.m. news, too, and this time they aired a little different segment of the interview they did with Sills for today's coverage. I see only the earlier version (the one someone linked earlier) posted on the 13WMAZ site so far ... but one thing Sills said in the video at 11 was that, basically, there is no evidence that the murders occurred in the house -- then he paused just a beat and said "...unless it was in the garage", but he sure didn't seem convinced of that either.

ETA: Also wanted to point out, in case it hasn't been noted already, that 13WMAZ has a special section of the web site devoted to its earlier coverage of the Dermond case. Here's the link (and I also added it to the Media thread): http://www.13wmaz.com/topic/586e6d09-f490-4867-8dfb-602d1d24e428/dermond-case/

<BBM for Focus>

Putnam Sheriff: No new leads in Dermond murders 06/24/2014
http://www.13wmaz.com/story/news/local/2014/06/24/no-new-leads-in-dermond-murders/11327969/

Sills says they've narrowed the time frame for the murders down to sometime between the afternoon of Friday May 2nd and Saturday May 3rd.

He says the only possible witness they have was a caller who says, from a distance, she saw a man on the Dermonds' property that Saturday afternoon. "And that's the closest thing we have, we don't have a car description, we don't have a person description," Sills says.

Sills says his department has done a thorough investigation into the Dermonds' background. He doesn't believe any of their immediate family committed the crime, but does think it would have to be someone they knew. Sills says the case is unlike other murders because of the unique circumstances.