Gene Hackman dead at 95: Iconic actor and wife, 63, are found dead with their dog at Santa Fe home. #2

[JDG]

But..People don’t just drop dead and die—

They have a brain bleed after a fall, or blunt force trauma, a stroke, seizure, heart attack, etc…

People DO just drop dead and die. Cardiac events usually.

Arrhythmias hit hard and fast, that can kill you.

A severe stroke can be lethal.

Aneurysms are quick and deadly. Etc. etc.

It’s called sudden death.

 

[friendlysleuther]

Re: Sunglasses—
Can Assume, Normally Worn On Top of Head &/ Hat​

---

Source 1 - People/ Nov 2023



Source 2- PageSix / Mar 2024

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“Deputy Thomas indicated he observed a pair of sunglasses located near the decedent’s left of his body.”
(search warrant affidavit)

 

[friendlysleuther]

People DO just drop dead and die. Cardiac events usually.

Arrhythmias hit hard and fast, that can kill you.

A severe stroke can be lethal.

Aneurysms are quick and deadly. Etc. etc.

It’s called sudden death.

Yeah, you’re exactly right—-

The thing is, all of these things would have been found on an autopsy. Rather, the Sheriff states quite the opposite.

So….

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Gene Hackman 'loved acting and hated everything that went with it'

Those who knew him discuss his brilliance, as well as his disdain for the trappings of Hollywood.

www.bbc.co.uk

Great article about GH’s dedication to his roles and professionalism.

Such a tragic end for him and Betsy, and of course the poor dog. I think this will have been some kind of medical episode which led to a catastrophic chain of events.

 

[friendlysleuther]

I don’t. Nothing nefarious here at all.

“Affiant believes that the circumstances surrounding the death of the two deceased individuals to be suspicious enough in nature to require a thorough search
and investigation because the reporting party found the front door of the residence unsecured and opened, deputies observed a healthy dog running loose on the property, another healthy dog near the deceased female, a deceased dog laying 10-15 feet from the deceased female in a closet of the bathroom, the heater being moved, the pill bottle being opened and pills scattered next to the female, the male decedent being located in a separate room of the residence, and no obvious signs
of a gas leak.”

(Affidavit)

 

[JDG]

Yeah, you’re exactly right—-

The thing is, all of these things would have been found on an autopsy. Rather, the Sheriff states quite the opposite.

So….

Just because it was found at a preliminary autopsy, it is NOT reported on until ALL information is back. The tox reports take a few weeks often. They do not report tidbits, they give one final report.

Even if the sherif knew what they found, it’s only a partial, if you will.

 

[friendlysleuther]

Just because it was found at a preliminary autopsy, it is NOT reported on until ALL information is back. The tox reports take a few weeks often. They do not report tidbits, they give one final report.

Even if the sherif knew what they found, it’s only a partial, if you will.

You don’t need a toxicology screening to determine ..

<snipped> a brain bleed after a fall, or blunt force trauma, a stroke, seizure, heart attack, etc…

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Yeah, you’re exactly right—-

The thing is, all of these things would have been found on an autopsy. Rather, the Sheriff states quite the opposite.

So….

I think signs of foul play would have also been very evident from the autopsy.

It’s very early days yet in terms of toxicology and any further investigations. I’ll be keeping my powder dry out of respect in the meantime, but appreciate people will always speculate.

 

[friendlysleuther]

Just because it was found at a preliminary autopsy, it is NOT reported on until ALL information is back. The tox reports take a few weeks often. They do not report tidbits, they give one final report.

Even if the sherif knew what they found, it’s only a partial, if you will.

As somebody’s who’s mother was murdered in October,
Here’s some of what I’ve learned:

Detectives will 9/10 accompany a medical examiner/ pathologist during an autopsy, so that the pathologist can then and there tell the detective what they have found.
Why? So the detectives can get to work, investigate & bring their case to the prosecutor.
[Source: The 30 yr exp. detective on my mom’s case & misc. research on this exact topic]

Does it take 3+ months for this? No. Because the pathologist can determine so much from the autopsy itself.
Therefore, once LE gets the “go ahead” from the pathologist— they don’t have to sit around for months waiting on paperwork.

In this situation, we have an autopsy that came up with nothing. The sheriff discusses this in the latest press conference. I have posted the link many times & the PDF with transcripts etc etc

 

[Charlot123]

we know that one daughter said she hasnt spoken to him in 2 months? but what about the others? what do we know about that?

I can tell by observing some family members who married women of their daughters’ age. At first there were no relations, but after many years, it was all forgotten. So, after 40+ years, i’d bet that there was no animosity in Gene’s family. On the other side, such men would definitely treat their young wives very differently, so there is that.

An observation related to illness. I knew a woman whose husband was “in power”. He developed a massive stroke during a morning jog. His wife, providing excellent care to him, never ever let friends and acquaintances visit him. At first I thought the goal was to protect “a wounded lion”, but today I am wondering if depression could have been a part of it.

So I wonder if Betsy, in a way, tried to protect Gene from the world’s awareness about his state. Perhaps it sounded like, “dad is out in the yard” or “dad is walking the dogs”, but since Gene was unavailable to children or friends, people stopped calling. It wouldn’t be surprising, it is a mix of pride and “there are just two of us in our misery.” (That last photo was made a year ago and everyone discussed Gene being “frail”.)

One more thing; pianists are perfectionists. Gene’s children mention Betsy taking excellent care of him, and I believe it was perfect. But maybe inside, Betsy felt that it was never good enough?

 

[Gemmie]

I don’t know who the question pertains to. I probably missed the post about printed out medical records.

I personally would be more interested in Ms. Arakawa’s medical records. If the thyroid medication was hers, I’d like to know when she last saw a doctor and when the thyroid hormones were last checked.

One thing that is important is not to over- or under dose thyroid medications. If the family became isolated, it could have easily happened.

"Medical records", among many other things, were collected from the residence per LE's presser, including a 2025 planner/calendar, medication, etc. The OP was wondering whose medical records they were (BA or GHs) and who printed them (BA or GH). And another question I'd add... and why? That's not something I normally print out. Perhaps it could simply be recent test results or something, and they print all medical records out to file away.

But, if that was the case, why weren't they filed away? It sounds to me like they collected stuff of interest that was laying around, and I can't see them going through their stuff filed away in cabinets. At least I don't think so but could be wrong about that.

Cued up:

 

[Soulmagent]

As somebody’s who’s mother was murdered in October,
Here’s some of what I’ve learned:

Detectives will 9/10 accompany a medical examiner/ pathologist during an autopsy, so that the pathologist can then and there tell the detective what they have found.
Why? So the detectives can get to work, investigate & bring their case to the prosecutor.
[Source: The 30 yr exp. detective on my mom’s case & misc. research on this exact topic]

Does it take 3+ months for this? No. Because the pathologist can determine so much from the autopsy itself.
Therefore, once LE gets the “go ahead” from the pathologist— they don’t have to sit around for months waiting on paperwork.

In this situation, we have an autopsy that came up with nothing. The sheriff discusses this in the latest press conference. I have posted the link many times & the PDF with transcripts etc etc

I think we still have to wait on tox screens. Autopsy results are not fully complete without them.

 

[MassGuy]

“Affiant believes that the circumstances surrounding the death of the two deceased individuals to be suspicious enough in nature to require a thorough search
and investigation because the reporting party found the front door of the residence unsecured and opened, deputies observed a healthy dog running loose on the property, another healthy dog near the deceased female, a deceased dog laying 10-15 feet from the deceased female in a closet of the bathroom, the heater being moved, the pill bottle being opened and pills scattered next to the female, the male decedent being located in a separate room of the residence, and no obvious signs
of a gas leak.”

(Affidavit)

Yes, two dead people, pills strewn, you're always treating that as suspicious. Definitely does not mean foul play, and the more we learn, the less likely that is.

The front door being open supports my belief that Gene had cognitive decline, and had been wandering around.

 

[friendlysleuther]

<snipped>
Cued up:

I have attached the transcript to this press conference, below

 

[ttjo]

I can tell by observing some family members who married women of their daughters’ age. At first there were no relations, but after many years, it was all forgotten. So, after 40+ years, i’d bet that there was no animosity in Gene’s family. On the other side, such men would definitely treat their young wives very differently, so there is that.

An observation related to illness. I knew a woman whose husband was “in power”. He developed a massive stroke during a morning jog. His wife, providing excellent care to him, never ever let friends and acquaintances visit him. At first I thought the goal was to protect “a wounded lion”, but today I am wondering if depression could have been a part of it.

So I wonder if Betsy, in a way, tried to protect Gene from the world’s awareness about his state. Perhaps it sounded like, “dad is out in the yard” or “dad is walking the dogs”, but since Gene was unavailable to children or friends, people stopped calling. It wouldn’t be surprising, it is a mix of pride and “there are just two of us in our misery.” (That last photo was made a year ago and everyone discussed Gene being “frail”.)

One more thing; pianists are perfectionists. Gene’s children mention Betsy taking excellent care of him, and I believe it was perfect. But maybe inside, Betsy felt that it was never good enough?

I've seen caregiver burnout, ive seen depression turn into aggression too , it was with dementia, b/c the wife couldnt understand why he couldnt put his pants on but could beat her in chess or checkers and from her perspective, she was tired enough and if he could beat her in checkers he could put his pants on, when youre tired and feeling manipulated , not a good combo. its just the illness, some areas are great and some suffer, Not saying thats the case here, just saying caregiver burnout is a real thing. You have to really be informed on how that illness works.

 

[friendlysleuther]

People DO just drop dead and die. Cardiac events

Arrhythmias hit hard and fast, that can kill you.

A severe stroke can be lethal.

Aneurysms are quick and deadly. Etc. etc.

It’s called sudden death. [BBM]

….

But..People don’t just drop dead and die— [Un-BBM]

They have a brain bleed after a fall, or blunt force trauma, a stroke, seizure, heart attack, etc…

Just wanted to clear this up (-:

 

[BrianJohnson]

Yes, two dead people, pills strewn, you're always treating that as suspicious. Definitely does not mean foul play, and the more we learn, the less likely that is.

The front door being open supports my belief that Gene had cognitive decline, and had been wandering around.

I think the ‘cognitive decline’ is overhyped

He had online yoga sessions via Zoom on a daily basis so will have been able to understand and process instructions from the teacher and copy the moves the teacher did

If he can do that I would have thought he would have the thought process to at least do basic tasks at home or know how to use a phone

 

[Kemug]

Where does it say BA did all the household chores? Please link it.

Maybe she did, plenty of women her age do. But probably most of those are not caring for a 95 year old spouse. It's not impossible that she did it all herself, but I would find it surprising. Of course, we don't know what state their home was in, maybe her housekeeping was the bare minimum (and who am I to criticise? )

 

[Kemug]

As somebody’s who’s mother was murdered in October

RSBM
Please accept my sincere sympathies for your loss.

 

[friendlysleuther]

Maybe she did, plenty of women her age do. But probably most of those are not caring for a 95 year old spouse. It's not impossible that she did it all herself, but I would find it surprising. Of course, we don't know what state their home was in, maybe her housekeeping was the bare minimum (and who am I to criticise? )

On the topic of cleaning —
“Did they not have Maids?” Etc, etc that I’ve seen—

• With larger homes as theirs, they’re not going to get as dirty as our homes would. Why? Because there’s a lot more space for items (less-clutter, if you have an issue with that due to space) , and simply because there’s so much more room in the home for dust, dirt and debris to go to in a (let’s say) 8,000 sq ft home, rather a 2,000 sq ft home.
• With them not having any kids in the house, that could also be why they didn’t feel like they needed a maid. It’s just the two of them. They probably weren’t making big messes, not on the go 24/7, etc— (other than the German Shepherd hair )
• At their ages, a lot of people get in the mood of.. “No! I’ll do it myself! I have always done it and I will continue: I won’t allow my age to change anything.”
• ^—-> My great grandfather lived to be 98 years old. He was still getting around as if he were 30+ years younger, at the time of his death. Him being active is what kept him going for so long (IMO)