Gene Hackman dead at 95: Iconic actor and wife, 63, are found dead with their dog at Santa Fe home. #2

[Megnut]

I can go along with a lot of your points, BUT not number 6. Knocking a container of pills to the floor will not open their impossible little lids - those childproof ones that you may even need your child to open for you!

If you reverse the lid, it becomes easy-open.

I wonder if they had other prescriptions, maybe she was looking for nitro, for example. Really seems like something very abrupt occurred. $64,000 question, was she trying to get medicine for herself or for him?

How far from his cane and sunglasses was he? Did he attempt to crawl anywhere? Two abrupt deaths defies logic but here we are.

JMO

 

[NCWatcher]

If you reverse the lid, it becomes easy-open.

I wonder if they had other prescriptions, maybe she was looking for nitro, for example. Really seems like something very abrupt occurred. $64,000 question, was she trying to get medicine for herself or for him?

How far from his cane and sunglasses was he? Did he attempt to crawl anywhere? Two abrupt deaths defies logic but here we are.

JMO

Not all child-proof tops are reversible, unfortunately. But if you don't have kids in the house, prescriptions can be filled without those awful tops & with regular tops.
MOO

 

[NCWatcher]

It will be very interesting if the toxicology report shows up a medication/chemical/drug/toxin that wasn't found on the property.

Presumably that is something LE are considering as a possibility, since at the moment none of the medications found are either emergency use, nor would be an obvious OD choice.

I also feel suicide is not likely connected to the 'scattered pills'. To me that feels more like a medical event interrupted, or staging by a third party. But I think if you were going to take pills, first of all most of them would be inside your body not scattered around on the counter top, and I don't think you'd leave your 95 year old husband lying on the floor. JMO.

Maybe. I doubt suicide myself. But despite reports she was in great shape, do we really think 60-something Betsy was capable of lifting her much taller and even if somewhat gaunt, still heavier 95-year old husband off the floor by herself? No matter how little assistance he may have been able to provide? I'm not sure I believe she could do that if he was at all incapacitated by a fall.

Besides the cane, do we know if there were other assistive devices in the home? Are there any steps? Was there a ramp, wheelchair, walker, rollator, patient lift or even a lifting belt? It sounds like 911 had never been called to the house to provide assistance after a fall so I'm not sure if falls had occurred before. And the house is huge. He must have been able to get around on a daily basis without help if all there was in terms of assistive devices was a cane. Of course, anyone can fall even if not infirm.
MOO

 

[CityKid]

There's quite a bit more info here about the dogs.
Sheriff's office makes error about Gene Hackman's dog in initial death report

I don't mean this as a knock on LE, but I'm sure they felt rushed to get a report out. MOO more of this type of initial mistake will come out as they learn more.

 

[priyaya]

People have said several times in posts that maybe something happened to Gene & Betsy ran to get his medication (maybe his BP medication.) The spilled pills could support that hypothesis.

But if she had been Gene's "caretaker" for a long time and by all accounts was an excellent one, would she really have thought a calcium channel blocker (diltiazem, for BP but also used to prevent angina or certain arrhythmias like tachycardia) or a thyroid med (if his) or Tylenol would help in an acute crisis? Was she going to force pills down his throat if he was in "distress?" That sort of thinking makes no sense. A cardiac drug used in crises (like nitroglycerin or amyl nitrite, for example) wasn't found so far as we know. Do people think we just don't know all the prescribed drugs that were found? I might understand deciding to hold back info from the public but the released paperwork we've seen (like the search warrant info showing diltiazem, thyroid meds, and Tylenol were seized) would have to have been faked to have left off additional info about other drugs that were found & seized. Why not just not release info vs create a fake document? That I do not understand. Or do people think his pacemaker wasn't for bradycardia (one of the most common reason pacemakers are used) but for tachycardia? Or even AFib? Even so, diltiazem isn't an emergency treatment. Why would Betsy have thought so? Or is there evidence he had AFib and would likely have been on a blood thinner? If so, the diltiazem might not have been his but hers as diltiazem usually is not prescribed if blood thinners are. Maybe if the diltiazem was hers, she did have underlying cardiac disease. But if he had a pacemaker, it seems he'd have been prescribed some sort of cardiac drug too.
MOO

This is why im leaning to Bestsy had a thyroid issue and that's what those pills were for. she went down first for whatever reason that wasn't thyroid related. I agree its strange to release some of the medications and not others.

 

[Cherwell]

This is why im leaning to Bestsy had a thyroid issue and that's what those pills were for. she went down first for whatever reason that wasn't thyroid related. I agree its strange to release some of the medications and not others.

There may have been other medications kept elsewhere, and only the ones found near Betsy were listed because they were part of the "scene".

 

[priyaya]

There may have been other medications kept elsewhere, and only the ones found near Betsy were listed because they were part of the "scene".

if we assume Becky had some kind of Thyroid issue I was looking into anything associated with sudden death and found something called a Thyroid Storm. Its a rare condition but it explains how she was found and how it could have gone from alarm to death so soon
from the cleveland clinic

What does thyroid storm feel like?​

Since thyroid hormone affects many parts of your body, if you’re experiencing thyroid storm, you’ll likely feel pretty bad all over. You may feel:

• Very hot and sweaty.
• Like your heart is going to beat out of your chest.
• Very agitated or anxious.
• Shaky.
• Sick to your stomach.
• Like you don’t have control of your body.
• Confused.

It’s essential to get to the nearest hospital as soon as possible if you’re experiencing any of these symptoms.

 

[Cherwell]

Good find. Might not cause sudden death but can cause loss of consciousness.
So she could have passed out, and then died because untreated.

A risk of living in a remote gated enclave. It would have needed an air ambulance.

 

[CityKid]

This is why im leaning to Bestsy had a thyroid issue and that's what those pills were for. she went down first for whatever reason that wasn't thyroid related. I agree its strange to release some of the medications and not others.

They release the names of the meds that were near the bodies, which would be relevant to the preliminary report given out. Until/unless the toxicology results are released, and there is a reason other meds in the house become relevant to the deaths, I doubt anything else will become known to the public.

 

[NCWatcher]

They release the names of the meds that were near the bodies, which would be relevant to the preliminary report given out. Until/unless the toxicology results are released, and there is a reason other meds in the house become relevant to the deaths, I doubt anything else will become known to the public.

So does that mean the two green phones were near the bodies too?

 

[priyaya]

So does that mean the two green phones were near the bodies too?

the phones were recovered from the property according to the affidavit but it didn't mention their location

 

[NCWatcher]

the phones were recovered from the property according to the affidavit but it didn't mention their location

It seems it could be important if they were with the bodies. And it seems to me LE seized other things not close to the bodies. But drugs are somehow different? I guess that's true.
MOO

 

[priyaya]

They release the names of the meds that were near the bodies, which would be relevant to the preliminary report given out. Until/unless the toxicology results are released, and there is a reason other meds in the house become relevant to the deaths, I doubt anything else will become known to the public.

the affadavit only mentions
unspecified thyroid medication, the painkiller Tylenol and the blood pressure medication Diltiazem,
its strange they didn't mention the name of the thyroid medication. however I'm certain there were other medications in that house

 

[Sunshynn]

So does that mean the two green phones were near the bodies too?

Not necessarily but they would be an important thing that needed to be recovered because they could hold text messages or phone calls which could be relevant to the deaths.
I (think) they list what they took so I would assume, until more comes out, that no other medications were found/taken/immediately relevant.
MOO

 

[NCWatcher]

Not necessarily but they would be an important thing that needed to be recovered because they could hold text messages or phone calls which could be relevant to the deaths.
I (think) they list what they took so I would assume, until more comes out, that no other medications were found/taken/immediately relevant.
MOO

Maybe. I'm not sure how LE could determine "immediate relevance" of a prescribed drug though.
MOO

 

[Megnut]

It seems it could be important if they were with the bodies. And it seems to me LE seized other things not close to the bodies. But drugs are somehow different? I guess that's true.
MOO

the affadavit only mentions
unspecified thyroid medication, the painkiller Tylenol and the blood pressure medication Diltiazem,
its strange they didn't mention the name of the thyroid medication. however I'm certain there were other medications in that house

It's likely too that there has been additional investigation that just hasn't been reported. Presumably that was just one bathroom/medicine cabinet. We don't even know, assuming she was seeking medication, which medication she was looking for. There might be relevant meds in another bathroom, lending toward toxicology findings. Or there might be nitro tablets bedside, but she was looking for them in the wrong place.

I do think the ME will be able to piece together what happened here. A much fuller picture then we have now.

JMO

 

[Cherwell]

Maybe. I'm not sure how LE could determine "immediate relevance" of a prescribed drug though.
MOO

Because they were found close to the body and some were spilled from an open container.

 

[ttjo]

Assuming that is the guest bathroom,? Its an odd place to keep your meds unless it's for easy access, and no one comes over and uses that bathroom anyway. Where is their bedroom? upstairs, or same floor?

 

[priyaya]

Assuming that is the guest bathroom,? Its an odd place to keep your meds unless it's for easy access, and no one comes over and uses that bathroom anyway. Where is their bedroom? upstairs, or same floor?

Someone mentioned earlier maybe they mover the bedroom closer for genes mobility

 

[Sunshynn]

October keeps coming up in relation to the couple.
Not that I'm thinking there is any real significance, just something I have noticed.

Sheriff's office makes error about Gene Hackman's dog in initial death report

Authorities are still unraveling the deaths of Gene Hackman and his wife. Equally puzzling were reports their German shepherd had died. He hadn't.

www.aol.com

Quote from the article and bbm:

"..Gaber treated Zinna before and after training sessions and competitions, she said. As she got older, Zinna – short for zinfandel – stopped training. But Arakawa continued bringing the dogs in for sessions.

“They wanted to do all the right things for their animals because they loved them so deeply,” Gaber said.

The last time she saw Arakawa was in October, when she brought in Bear for an adjustment. The German shepherd, who Arakawa rescued from the side of Interstate 25, appeared to enjoy his session, Gaber said. She and Arakawa joked and promised to meet up again soon.

Then, last week, the messages came in: Her two close friends were dead, as was Zinna."

Exclusive | Inside Gene Hackman, wife Betsy Arakawa’s final days before couple mysteriously found dead in New Mexico home: ‘Got tougher for them’

Daniel told The Post it had been “years” since he last saw Hackman, his friend of more than 30 years, in person.

nypost.com

Quote from article and bbm:

"..Keiko, a housekeeper for Arakawa’s mother, told the Daily Mail the classical pianist used to check in on her own 91-year-old mother, Yoshie Feaster, regularly, as the latter is battling dementia.

However, she added, “Betsy hadn’t called her mother in months.”

“She usually called every one or two months,” the housekeeper added. “Last time she called was October. We were thinking, what happened?”

Keiko said the family became worried over Arakawa’s alleged lack of communication."