Gene Hackman dead at 95: Iconic actor and wife, 63, are found dead with their dog at Santa Fe home. #2

[jmz]

Revisiting Gene Hackman’s House in Santa Fe

AD looks back on our 1990 tour of the late actor’s rustic New Mexico abode

www.architecturaldigest.com

Based on the photo in this article, it appears to be 2 story, at least.
Also, the floor plan that you had posted sometime earlier I think also makes it clear that it was a 2 story home.
MOO

I think there was some type of balcony where the 2 pianos were, I think everything else was on the main floor.

 

[Cherwell]

But if that were so, and I'm assuming you mean physical health, then why no additional caregivers coming to the home?

That's a long time for someone of 95 to be in rapidly declining health without additional support, especially given money wasn't a factor (presumably although I guess we don't know this for sure!).

I am still convinced we will discover there ARE people they were in contact with, but whose motivations were nefarious.

Either this, or they were both suffering from a decline in mental health. I feel they had gone beyond 'reclusive' and into 'isolated' which is a dangerous place to be for vulnerable people.

I don't see anything to indicate anything like that.
They were known to be intensely private people.

And people (even those who hadn't guarded their privacy) can be very resistant to the idea of outside help. I've seen many, many examples of this, some of them displaying quite selfish attitudes.

 

[Pseudonymph]

I'm still unclear whether the room where Betsy was found was actually a bathroom or just a toilet. In the UK it's common to have a small room with a toilet near the outside door, but we don't call it a bathroom unless there is a bath in it! One of those language differences between British English and American English.

Could be either. We say "full bath" and "half bath" here. Generically, it's bathroom. We also "go to the bathroom." If you say toilet or "I'm going to the toilet" in the US, that sounds very strange and borderline inappropriate.

 

[Sadi]

But if that were so, and I'm assuming you mean physical health, then why no additional caregivers coming to the home?

That's a long time for someone of 95 to be in rapidly declining health without additional support, especially given money wasn't a factor (presumably although I guess we don't know this for sure!).

I am still convinced we will discover there ARE people they were in contact with, but whose motivations were nefarious.

Either this, or they were both suffering from a decline in mental health. I feel they had gone beyond 'reclusive' and into 'isolated' which is a dangerous place to be for vulnerable people.

What are your reasons for saying this? I’m curious.

 

[ttjo]

Could be either. We say "full bath" and "half bath" here. Generically, it's bathroom. We also "go to the bathroom." If you say toilet or "I'm going to the toilet" in the US, that sounds very strange and borderline inappropriate.

it was big enough to need/use a spaceheater and have a dog in there too.

 

[Pseudonymph]

it was big enough to need/use a spaceheater and have a dog in there too.

Yes to me it sounds like a full bath or VERY large half bath. Maybe the closet used to be a laundry room or something.

 

[Sunshynn]

https://www.redfin.com/NM/Santa-Fe/1425-Old-Sunset-Trl-87501/home/138086383

I think there was some type of balcony where the 2 pianos were, I think everything else was on the main floor.

I believe you're right.
I think it was a very open (up and out) floor plan and that's what is throwing me off.
This site does not list it as being 2 stories.

 

[Cherwell]

Could be either. We say "full bath" and "half bath" here. Generically, it's bathroom. We also "go to the bathroom." If you say toilet or "I'm going to the toilet" in the US, that sounds very strange and borderline inappropriate.

We do say toilet but often use euphemisms like loo. We have many of those, but not usually ambiguous like "restroom"

The room is usually formally described as the toilet or sometimes lavatory, although that's quite old-fashioned. 'Bathroom' is creeping in from US use , which is a pity as it is confusing. As it has confused me here because when Americans say 'bathroom ' they usually mean toilet.

 

[Cherwell]

https://www.redfin.com/NM/Santa-Fe/1425-Old-Sunset-Trl-87501/home/138086383

I believe you're right.
I think it was a very open (up and out) floor plan and that's what is throwing me off.
This site does not list it as being 2 stories.

That isn't the Hackman house.

 

[Izzylizzy]

There's quite a bit more info here about the dogs.
Sheriff's office makes error about Gene Hackman's dog in initial death report

IMO:
The mix-up could have been caused because there were 2 dogs found with BA.
The one who was deceased in their crate (Zinna) and the one who was alive (Bear?) who was also in the bathroom when BA was found.
???

"Bear wasn’t dead at all. As Gaber read the news reports on her phone, the dog was alive and well, resting at a pet daycare facility in Santa Fe, along with the couple’s other dog, Nikita, a 7-year-old Akita-shepherd mix.

"USA TODAY learned the dog who perished in the Hackman home was actually Zinna, a 12-year-old reddish Australian Kelpie mixed-breed who had once trained in agility skills to compete at the Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show. Her body was found in a closed crate in the home, according to Joey Padilla, who transported the surviving dogs to his facility, Santa Fe Tails.

 

[Izzylizzy]

"Meanwhile, deputies reported seeing one of the surviving dogs running around the property and the other roaming near Betsy's body, according to a search warrant affidavit. The dead dog was a German Shepherd who was found in the bathroom closet about 10 feet away from Betsy."

Updates on Gene Hackman's two surviving dogs shared by authorities

Gene Hackman and his wife Betsy Arakawa shared three dogs, two of which survived the mysterious triple death

www.irishstar.com

 

[ttjo]

I think there was some type of balcony where the 2 pianos were, I think everything else was on the main floor.

heres one room with a piano or even 2 piano's?

 

[Sunshynn]

That isn't the Hackman house.

County Sheriff says Gene Hackman likely died more than a week before police discovery

Carbon monoxide poisoning ruled out as cause of death, investigation ongoing

sfreporter.com

"..Mendoza recounted the events of Feb. 26, when the bodies were discovered: at approximately 1:45 pm, the sheriff’s deputies were dispatched to 1425 Old Sunset Trail, Hackman’s home." BBM

https://www.redfin.com/NM/Santa-Fe/1425-Old-Sunset-Trl-87501/home/138086383

It isn't??

 

[Pseudonymph]

We do say toilet but often use euphemisms like loo. We have many of those, but not usually ambiguous like "restroom"

The room is usually formally described as the toilet or sometimes lavatory, although that's quite old-fashioned. 'Bathroom' is creeping in from US use , which is a pity as it is confusing. As it has confused me here because when Americans say 'bathroom ' they usually mean toilet.

Oh yes, I forgot restroom. That only refers to a facility in a public building like a school, office, or store.

 

[Cardgame]

What are your reasons for saying this? I’m curious.

I guess I was speculating in response to the idea that something had happened around October that meant Betsy hadn't been in touch with her mother, and hadn't been seen since then by friends.

It makes me wonder if there were people who were supporting them, who have subsequently abandoned them, having got what they wanted.

But it really is pure speculation. Based on other cases involving older people.

There are certainly many possibilities here, and I'm trying to consider all of them. Lots of people clearly believe they fell and it was all accidental, I'm just trying to remain open to other possibilities because I would hate to make assumptions simply based on their age. IMO their vulnerability to this kind of thing, also makes them vulnerable to predators.

I personally don't think the idea that Gene's health had rapidly declined leads to the idea that they had become increasingly isolated. I feel like that's the time Betsy would need to reach out for support.

We don't have evidence to suggest that she was against support. Or that they hadn't previously had it.

IMO, whatever has happened indicated that they DID need it. Because they have both been found dead after two weeks in horrible circumstances. But all JMO.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Is it a done deal that the final autopsy reports on GH, BA and Zinna their dog will be made public?
Can the next of kin or whoever that may be,prevent it?

• 'New Mexico'​

  "The Office of the Medical Investigator should make autopsy reports available to "anyone demonstrating a tangible and direct interest." NMSA 1978 § 24-14-28(A) (1987); see generally NMSA 1978 § 24-14-20 (2009), (Death registrations). There is no reported decision as to what constitutes a "tangible and direct interest."
  
  Coroners Reports. Generally are not available. According to NMSA 1978 § 24-14-28(A), the state registrar shall provide copies to anyone "with a direct and tangible interest." Under New Mexico Law, the coroner means the district medical investigator. NMSA 1978 § 24-11-4. Death certificates are addressed under NMSA, 1978 § 24-11-6. See also NMSA 1978 § 24-14-20.'

A. Autopsy and coroners reports Archives

www.rcfp.org

 

[Cardgame]

I don't see anything to indicate anything like that.
They were known to be intensely private people.

And people (even those who hadn't guarded their privacy) can be very resistant to the idea of outside help. I've seen many, many examples of this, some of them displaying quite selfish attitudes.

Yes totally, I was referring specifically to the idea about something having happened in October, or October marking some kind of decline in Gene's health. I'm not convinced that his decline in health would lead them to become more isolated. We don't have anything to indicate that either, because IMO there's a difference between private, and not accepting medical help when you need it. We hardly know anything about Betsy at all, in terms of her personality, and what we do know doesn't sound selfish. She loved dogs and music, and she was devoted to Gene. Why would she not seek additional help and support for him, if he was ailing?

To be fair, we also don't know they didn't usually have outside help, only that for the two weeks they lay dead, no one found them.

 

[NuttMegg]

Oh yes, I forgot restroom. That only refers to a facility in a public building like a school, office, or store.

Speaking for commercial fishermen I have to add "John" and "head". Ie Where is the ____.

 

[slowpoke]

New theory of mine:

1. Gene and Betsy got up in the morning as usual.
2. Their routine was to let the dogs out first (like most dog owners.)
3. Two dogs were not crated or had already been let out of their crates.
4. Betsy went to the bathroom to let the crated dog out.
5. She had a sudden health episode before she could get the dog out.
6. In falling down, perhaps grabbing the counter, she knocked the heater and the pills onto the floor.
7. Gene didn't realize she had collapsed.
8. The dogs were losing their minds because she was being slow, so Gene decided to let them out himself.
9. Because he needed so much physical assistance, letting the dogs out himself might not have been his normal routine without his wife's help.
10. Something caused him to fall (he could even have been knocked down by a hyper dog.)
11. Because of his frailty, it was a fatal fall, either quick or slow.

Not to sound nit-picky, but for the sake of keeping the facts as accurate as we can, the affidavit for search warrant did not say the prescription pill bottle was on the floor, nor were the scattered pills. They were both said to be on the counter-top.

“He advised he also observed an orange prescription bottle on the counter-top near the deceased female. The prescription bottle appeared opened with pills scattered on the counter-top.”

https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/c4354003f4641340/ff88733d-full.pdf

 

[Cherwell]

County Sheriff says Gene Hackman likely died more than a week before police discovery

Carbon monoxide poisoning ruled out as cause of death, investigation ongoing

sfreporter.com

"..Mendoza recounted the events of Feb. 26, when the bodies were discovered: at approximately 1:45 pm, the sheriff’s deputies were dispatched to 1425 Old Sunset Trail, Hackman’s home." BBM

https://www.redfin.com/NM/Santa-Fe/1425-Old-Sunset-Trl-87501/home/138086383

It isn't??

I saw somewhere else that it was at Santa Fe Summit, so that must have been wrong.