Gene Hackman dead at 95: Iconic actor and wife, 63, are found dead with their dog at Santa Fe home. #2

[Izzylizzy]

I guess I was speculating in response to the idea that something had happened around October that meant Betsy hadn't been in touch with her mother, and hadn't been seen since then by friends.

It makes me wonder if there were people who were supporting them, who have subsequently abandoned them, having got what they wanted.

But it really is pure speculation. Based on other cases involving older people.

There are certainly many possibilities here, and I'm trying to consider all of them. Lots of people clearly believe they fell and it was all accidental, I'm just trying to remain open to other possibilities because I would hate to make assumptions simply based on their age. IMO their vulnerability to this kind of thing, also makes them vulnerable to predators.

I personally don't think the idea that Gene's health had rapidly declined leads to the idea that they had become increasingly isolated. I feel like that's the time Betsy would need to reach out for support.

We don't have evidence to suggest that she was against support. Or that they hadn't previously had it.

IMO, whatever has happened indicated that they DID need it. Because they have both been found dead after two weeks in horrible circumstances. But all JMO.

BBM:
I'm curious why BA's mother's caregiver didn't reach out to BA to see if all was well with her having not heard from BA in months.

 

[NuttMegg]

Yes totally, I was referring specifically to the idea about something having happened in October, or October marking some kind of decline in Gene's health. I'm not convinced that his decline in health would lead them to become more isolated. We don't have anything to indicate that either, because IMO there's a difference between private, and not accepting medical help when you need it. We hardly know anything about Betsy at all, in terms of her personality, and what we do know doesn't sound selfish. She loved dogs and music, and she was devoted to Gene. Why would she not seek additional help and support for him, if he was ailing?

To be fair, we also don't know they didn't usually have outside help, only that for the two weeks they lay dead, no one found them.

We have no idea what their online social experiences were. Many introverts prefer it far more than going out. I see nothing odd about a 64 year old & a 95 year old preferring to be alone. That's what Santa Fe has a modern reputation for, solitude, great climate. And respect from the locals. In one of those "friend" articles posted here last night, the neighbor said he and his wife lived next to the Hackmans for 20 years but shared just one meal event with them.

People who are hermits, authors, whatever, factor the probability of eventually being found dead into their cherished solitude.

 

[Cherwell]

Yes totally, I was referring specifically to the idea about something having happened in October, or October marking some kind of decline in Gene's health. I'm not convinced that his decline in health would lead them to become more isolated. We don't have anything to indicate that either, because IMO there's a difference between private, and not accepting medical help when you need it. We hardly know anything about Betsy at all, in terms of her personality, and what we do know doesn't sound selfish. She loved dogs and music, and she was devoted to Gene. Why would she not seek additional help and support for him, if he was ailing?

To be fair, we also don't know they didn't usually have outside help, only that for the two weeks they lay dead, no one found them.

I didn't mean Betsy. I meant that the person needing care could be selfish, refusing outside help because they prefer their family to do it. Which is not fair on the family.

An old chap I knew who had a heart condition ended up in hospital after a bad turn. He had a sister who used to visit him weekly - a 100 mile round trip - cook him a dinner and do a bit of housework. He was offered a home help but refused because he "didn't want a stranger poking about" and anyway his sister could do it. That's what I mean by selfish.

Not to sound nit-picky, but for the sake of keeping the facts as accurate as we can, the affidavit for search warrant did not say the prescription pill bottle was on the floor, nor were the scattered pills. They were both said to be on the counter-top.

“He advised he also observed an orange prescription bottle on the counter-top near the deceased female. The prescription bottle appeared opened with pills scattered on the counter-top.”

https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/c4354003f4641340/ff88733d-full.pdf

Correct. That's why I thought it was possible that the dog had eaten any pills that might have fallen on the floor.

 

[priyaya]

BBM:
I'm curious why BA's mother's caregiver didn't reach out to BA to see if all was well with her having not heard from BA in months.

She has dementia

 

[NCWatcher]

She has dementia

The mother does, presumably the mother's caretaker doesn't. And in the link posted earlier, the caretaker was quoted as saying something like it was unusual not to hear from BA and we wondered what was going on.
MOO

 

[Sunshynn]

She has dementia

The caregiver didn't have dementia, Betsy's mother had dementia.
They were asking why the caregiver didn't reach out to Betsy since it had been so long since she had checked on her mother.

 

[NuttMegg]

She has dementia

Besides, we don't know if the mother's caretaker reached out to family or vice versa. We don't know anything, and that's the result of the private manner she, and he, chose to live.

 

[NuttMegg]

The mother does, presumably the mother's caretaker doesn't. And in the link posted earlier, the caretaker was quoted as saying something like it was unusual not to hear from BA and we wondered what was going on.
MOO

The caretaker should zip it. Surprised that there doesn't seem to be a "do not blab" restriction.

 

[NCWatcher]

The caretaker should zip it. Surprised that there doesn't seem to be a "do not blab" restriction.

But who would order such a restriction? And how would it be binding on various people like her mother's caretaker in Hawaii?
MOO

 

[Cardgame]

I didn't mean Betsy. I meant that the person needing care could be selfish, refusing outside help because they prefer their family to do it. Which is not fair on the family.

An old chap I knew who had a heart condition ended up in hospital after a bad turn. He had a sister who used to visit him weekly - a 100 mile round trip - cook him a dinner and do a bit of housework. He was offered a home help but refused because he "didn't want a stranger poking about" and anyway his sister could do it. That's what I mean by selfish.

Correct. That's why I thought it was possible that the dog had eaten any pills that might have fallen on the floor.

Ah i see what you are saying. Yes perhaps he was ailing but refused to let anyone other than Betsy help him, putting undue strain on her which in turn led her health to decline.

I still find it odd - even if this were the case - that she didn't have people checking in on her.

He can be reclusive, elderly, selfish, stuck in his ways etc etc. She was only 63 years old. That's not old. It's odd that she didn't have friends checking in regularly.

Perhaps we live in a lonelier world than I had imagined. I'm pretty introverted, but there are still a good few people who i REALLY HOPE would notice if I stopped replying to messages and might at least check in on me. Especially if I was caring for an elderly gentleman. But then again, maybe not.

Perhaps people were afraid to intrude or overstep.

 

[Sadi]

I guess I was speculating in response to the idea that something had happened around October that meant Betsy hadn't been in touch with her mother, and hadn't been seen since then by friends.

It makes me wonder if there were people who were supporting them, who have subsequently abandoned them, having got what they wanted.

But it really is pure speculation. Based on other cases involving older people.

There are certainly many possibilities here, and I'm trying to consider all of them. Lots of people clearly believe they fell and it was all accidental, I'm just trying to remain open to other possibilities because I would hate to make assumptions simply based on their age. IMO their vulnerability to this kind of thing, also makes them vulnerable to predators.

I personally don't think the idea that Gene's health had rapidly declined leads to the idea that they had become increasingly isolated. I feel like that's the time Betsy would need to reach out for support.

We don't have evidence to suggest that she was against support. Or that they hadn't previously had it.

IMO, whatever has happened indicated that they DID need it. Because they have both been found dead after two weeks in horrible circumstances. But all JMO.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I hope no one was taking advantage of them or intentionally caused them harm etc., I didn’t even consider these options, honestly. I really hope they didn’t suffer and passed away quickly/peacefully. The poor pup that died though, that breaks my heart and the two remaining pups. I hope they remain together.

 

[NuttMegg]

But who would order such a restriction? And how would it be binding on various people like her mother's caretaker in Hawaii?
MOO

I forget what the document is called, but the requirement to sign it is typical, expected when seeking employment ih the homes of the wealthy. Not to speak about their experiences in the home, don't discuss the family members etc.

 

[CityKid]

County Sheriff says Gene Hackman likely died more than a week before police discovery

Carbon monoxide poisoning ruled out as cause of death, investigation ongoing

sfreporter.com

"..Mendoza recounted the events of Feb. 26, when the bodies were discovered: at approximately 1:45 pm, the sheriff’s deputies were dispatched to 1425 Old Sunset Trail, Hackman’s home." BBM

https://www.redfin.com/NM/Santa-Fe/1425-Old-Sunset-Trl-87501/home/138086383

It isn't??

The photo shows the Hackman house, but this description on Redfin is for a 1,824-square-foot house.
Here are the two listings for 1425 on Zillow:
8671-square-foot main house: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1425-Old-Sunset-Trl-Santa-Fe-NM-87501/6858585_zpid/
1,824-square-foot second house: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1425-Old-Sunset-Trl-Santa-Fe-NM-87501/126289282_zpid/

 

[NuttMegg]

Ah i see what you are saying. Yes perhaps he was ailing but refused to let anyone other than Betsy help him, putting undue strain on her which in turn led her health to decline.

I still find it odd - even if this were the case - that she didn't have people checking in on her.

He can be reclusive, elderly, selfish, stuck in his ways etc etc. She was only 63 years old. That's not old. It's odd that she didn't have friends checking in regularly.

Perhaps we live in a lonelier world than I had imagined. I'm pretty introverted, but there are still a good few people who i REALLY HOPE would notice if I stopped replying to messages and might at least check in on me. Especially if I was caring for an elderly gentleman. But then again, maybe not.

Perhaps people were afraid to intrude or overstep.

We don't know how often people did or didn't check in on them. Have the call logs of the phones been released?

 

[CityKid]

I saw somewhere else that it was at Santa Fe Summit, so that must have been wrong.

Santa Fe Summit and Santa Fe High Summit are the two adjoining gated communities, one of which is where the house is located (I haven't found a map marking the boundaries of each community).

SANTA FE SUMMIT AND HIGH SUMMIT

homesantafe.com

 

[NCWatcher]

I forget what the document is called, but the requirement to sign it is typical, expected when seeking employment ih the homes of the wealthy. Not to speak about their experiences in the home, don't discuss the family members etc.

Well, there's a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) . But we don't know who is paying the caretaker in Hawaii. And it's also unclear how enforceable NDAs sometimes are.
MOO

 

[Cherwell]

I don't know, nine days or so isn't an excessively long time.

Ah i see what you are saying. Yes perhaps he was ailing but refused to let anyone other than Betsy help him, putting undue strain on her which in turn led her health to decline.

I still find it odd - even if this were the case - that she didn't have people checking in on her.

He can be reclusive, elderly, selfish, stuck in his ways etc etc. She was only 63 years old. That's not old. It's odd that she didn't have friends checking in regularly.

Perhaps we live in a lonelier world than I had imagined. I'm pretty introverted, but there are still a good few people who i REALLY HOPE would notice if I stopped replying to messages and might at least check in on me. Especially if I was caring for an elderly gentleman. But then again, maybe not.

Perhaps people were afraid to intrude or overstep.

They knew a lot of people in the community but I'm not sure that they were close enough to anyone that would miss contact. Nine days or so isn't all that long. I don't think there's anyone I'm in contact with by text, email or phone that I'd be consistently in touch with. I mean, I have conversations that continue over several days and then maybe nothing for a couple of weeks or more. And I have friends who are VERY BAD at replying at all.

 

[CityKid]

That isn't the Hackman house.

It's the second house on the property. I put up the Zillow links elsewhere, but if you google 1425 Old Sunset Trail, you'll see two listings for the address, the big main one and this smaller one.

 

[STAGNUM]

I saw somewhere else that it was at Santa Fe Summit, so that must have been wrong.

It is a private enclave with both County street address for tax purposes and a local address within the community. I think I heard #1 Santa Fe Summit mentioned. It does not sound like there is anything except private traffic inside the gates.

 

[NuttMegg]

Well, there's a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) . But we don't know who is paying the caretaker in Hawaii. And it's also unclear how enforceable NDAs sometimes are.
MOO

That's the term I was looking for NDA. thanks.

I remain surprised that the caretaker of a dead woman's elderly dementia suffering 91 year old mother feels free to chime in with her derogatory statement. Imo
Nursing homes and hospice definitely do not allow patient information to be spread as gossip by employees.