Gene Hackman dead at 95: Iconic actor and wife, 63, are found dead with their dog at Santa Fe home. #2

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  • #81
I was talking about whether the crate the dog was found in was open or shut. That could be something only a killer would know, which is why I find it curious that the police haven't started one way or another. Could be nothing or could be something, IDK.
^rsbm

This may just be the Daily Mail’s misinterpretation of the stated facts by the Sheriff Dept, but in this article the Daily Mail says:

A dog, one of three German Shepherds owned by the couple, was also deceased - shut inside a kennel.” (Bolded by me)

Which gives the impression of the dog’s crate door being closed, with the poor dog unable to get out.

<modsnip: referenced post was removed>
 
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  • #82
Moo...the deaths could probably of happened first thing in morning or in evening near bed time. Medication is usually taken in the am or before bed. Dog in crate could have been not let out yet in morning or put to bed for evening. I crate only one of my dogs because it is not trustworthy at this time to be loose when I am sleeping...it just has too much fun doing things it is not supposed to. Shepherds are big dogs so putting a big crate in a closet seems like a good idea to me.
As said at 95 Gene could most probably not get up if he fell.....moo
 
  • #83
Moo...the deaths could probably of happened first thing in morning or in evening near bed time. Medication is usually taken in the am or before bed. Dog in crate could have been not let out yet in morning or put to bed for evening. I crate only one of my dogs because it is not trustworthy at this time to be loose when I am sleeping...it just has too much fun doing things it is not supposed to. Shepherds are big dogs so putting a big crate in a closet seems like a good idea to me.
As said at 95 Gene could most probably not get up if he fell.....moo
Gene had been wearing sunglasses which were found next to his body, unless he had an eye infection or something very unlikely he was wearing sunglasses at night, definitely a morning incident
 
  • #84
No, the search warrant narrative states precisely that the callers told the deputies they had found the door "opened/ajar", the deputies themselves found the door "ajar".

Please cite something to back up that the search warrant is not the true facts.
According to the 911 call, which you can listen to for yourself below, the caretaker that made the 911 call specifically said:

"I'm not inside the house, it's closed, it's locked and I can't go in, but I see them <snip>".

~1:20 - Gene Hackman 911 Caller Emotional on Phone, Says He Can't See Anyone Moving

So, did 2 different 911 calls get made, from 2 different people, both witnessing different things for there to be a discrepancy in either the house being closed/locked... and the door being ajar?
 
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  • #85
  • #86
It very well might have been a prelude to an apparent heart attack or stroke...a nonspecific set of symptoms that induced Betsy to rush to the bathroom medicine chest...there are some medications that are prescribed to heart patients that are to be taken if certain symptoms arise, though calling 911 would of course be part of that...Hackman may have only collapsed and succumbed after she'd already rushed to retrieve whatever from the bathroom. It's only my speculation and I can think of a variety of scenarios along these lines. But a double medical emergency is basically what I'm leaning towards.
Yes, this scenario of Hackman having a medical problem and Betsy running to get some meds for him now seems the most likely one IMO. And it caused her to have a medical episode as well, or an accident, so she herself died as well. I think the results of the autopsy will be pushed to come out early, being as already the carbon monoxide results were released. For right or wrong, because of public interest and Gene Hackman's high profile. It is kind of ironic really, sounds like he and his wife wanted to lead a quiet and private life, and now that they are gone, they are in public media everywhere for not only their accomplishments, but due to their unusual last moments.
 
  • #87
But why would anyone bother bumping off a 95yo man?
My first thought - and I hope I'm wrong - possibly his biological kids getting an inheritance. Since Gene's 2nd wife is 31 years younger than Gene, it's possible Gene's biological kids (who are from his first marriage) are all older than his 2nd wife. When both Gene and Betsy (2nd wife) are deceased at the same time, most likely the inheritance will go straight to his 3 kids. Gene made a lot of movies, his home in NM was worth 3.8 million, and he even owned a small island off the coast of Washington (per the Daily Mail)! Those are some nice assets! I'm reminded of this case in NJ Woman accused of killing dad in NJ home was cut from will, documents show where the daughter was cut out of the will: the only way she could receive inheritance was if the stepmom was out of the picture.

Also, I noticed that Gene and Betsy were partners in a lot of local businesses. See this Daily Mail article as one example Gene Hackman's friend speaks out on conspiracy theories after deaths Also, Betsy was a co-owner of a linens & things store in ABQ. Could any business dealings have gone south, and their business partners thought, "well, these are two folks who live pretty reclusive lives. I think I could knock them off and stage the scene to look accidental." This would not be the first time this has happened, not even close.
 
  • #88
But why would anyone bother bumping off a 95yo man? it is highly unlikely he had any drug debts or involved in any dodgy activities, he lead a very reclusive life and likely had no enemies

If nothing was stolen as police said why would someone go through the trouble of killing a 95yo man

The only one who might have got past the dogs/compound cctv to get in the house and kill Gene/wife would be the security guard or the maintenance guy, why would they want to kill a 95yo?

<modsnip>
Lots of possible motives. We don't know anything about his business arrangements and who might benefit from his death. You need to watch some more movies like Michael Clayton etc. :). I'm liking the pesticide/fumigation possibility as well so I guess we'll have to see what comes from the autopsy.
 
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  • #89
According to the 911 call, which you can listen to for yourself below, the caretaker that made the 911 call specifically said:

"I'm not inside the house, it's closed, it's locked and I can't go in, but I see them <snip>".

~1:12 - Gene Hackman 911 Caller Emotional on Phone, Says He Can't See Anyone Moving
Well, I would think there were a few doors at and near the front of the house, so this caretaker maybe went to one that was locked, one he usually used. Plus it looks like there are many windows, and due to the angle of one, he could see the bodies.
 
  • #90
My first thought - and I hope I'm wrong - possibly his biological kids getting an inheritance. Since Gene's 2nd wife is 31 years younger than Gene, it's possible Gene's biological kids (who are from his first marriage) are all older than his 2nd wife. When both Gene and Betsy (2nd wife) are deceased at the same time, most likely the inheritance will go straight to his 3 kids. Gene made a lot of movies, his home in NM was worth 3.8 million, and he even owned a small island off the coast of Washington (per the Daily Mail)! Those are some nice assets! I'm reminded of this case in NJ Woman accused of killing dad in NJ home was cut from will, documents show where the daughter was cut out of the will: the only way she could receive inheritance was if the stepmom was out of the picture.

Also, I noticed that Gene and Betsy were partners in a lot of local businesses. See this Daily Mail article as one example Gene Hackman's friend speaks out on conspiracy theories after deaths Also, Betsy was a co-owner of a linens & things store in ABQ. Could any business dealings have gone south, and their business partners thought, "well, these are two folks who live pretty reclusive lives. I think I could knock them off and stage the scene to look accidental." This would not be the first time this has happened, not even close.
He lived in a gated compound which had cctv everywhere and was patrolled by security, he also had German Shepherds, I cant see how anyone with bad intentions could have evaded the dogs, the cctv, the security etc to get into his house and make a double murder look like something else, just dont see it
 
  • #91
A short clip on Hackman's legacy and life. Things I didn't know like he was a race car driver, and an avid diver, among other things. Also tidbits about his life from young to old.

In 2001 he was interviewed on Inside the Actors Studio, he was 65 -ish. He becomes emotional recalling his dad leaving and watching him drive away, out of his life, as a young boy. He says something about it still hurting after 65 years. I didn’t realize he did his last movie in ‘04 then retired from acting. imo

Think I’m going to watch Wyatt Earp tonight…
 
  • #92
Lots of possible motives. We don't know anything about his business arrangements and who might benefit from his death. You need to watch some more movies like Michael Clayton etc. :). I'm liking the pesticide/fumigation possibility as well so I guess we'll have to see what comes from the autopsy.
The 2 surviving dogs are the elephant in the room for me re any possible foul play, if they were killed by anyone it will have to have been by someone well known to Gene who the dogs trust, plus someone who knows the layout of the cctv cameras and the hours of the security guard

Unless the guard killed them the whole thing doesn’t add up to me
 
  • #93
According to the 911 call, which you can listen to for yourself below, the caretaker that made the 911 call specifically said:

"I'm not inside the house, it's closed, it's locked and I can't go in, but I see them <snip>".

~1:20 - Gene Hackman 911 Caller Emotional on Phone, Says He Can't See Anyone Moving

So, did 2 different 911 calls get made, from 2 different people, both witnessing different things for there to be a discrepancy in either the house being closed/locked... and the door being ajar?
A house that size must have more than one outside entrance door, though.
 
  • #94
According to the 911 call, which you can listen to for yourself below, the caretaker that made the 911 call specifically said:

"I'm not inside the house, it's closed, it's locked and I can't go in, but I see them <snip>".

~1:20 - Gene Hackman 911 Caller Emotional on Phone, Says He Can't See Anyone Moving

So, did 2 different 911 calls get made, from 2 different people, both witnessing different things for there to be a discrepancy in either the house being closed/locked... and the door being ajar?
Here is the inconsistencies.....The Deputies stated that the door was not locked. Based on the size of the house how does one find the correct window to see inside and find someone lying on the floor?
State that they cannot enter the home because its locked and the Deputy find the door ajar?

The 911 call just seems odd. No, everything seems odd.
 
  • #95
He lived in a gated compound which had cctv everywhere and was patrolled by security, he also had German Shepherds, I cant see how anyone with bad intentions could have evaded the dogs, the cctv, the security etc to get into his house and make a double murder look like something else, just dont see it
A double murder without leaving any signs of injury to either body, I might add.
 
  • #96
The 2 surviving dogs are the elephant in the room for me re any possible foul play, if they were killed by anyone it will have to have been by someone well known to Gene who the dogs trust, plus someone who knows the layout of the cctv cameras and the hours of the security guard

Unless the guard killed them the whole thing doesn’t add up to me
To play devil's advocate: we don't know what evidence the police have though. It's possible they have CCTV footage, and are not sharing it with the public.
 
  • #97
To play devil's advocate: we don't know what evidence the police have though. It's possible they have CCTV footage, and are not sharing it with the public.
Agreed and that affidavit that’s been released is not everything they have, it usually never is. imo
 
  • #98
A house that size must have more than one outside entrance door, though.
Yes. There seem to be a lot of verandas too, or porches I think they call them. Every one of those would have a door to the interior.
 
  • #99
According to the 911 call, which you can listen to for yourself below, the caretaker that made the 911 call specifically said:

"I'm not inside the house, it's closed, it's locked and I can't go in, but I see them <snip>".

~1:20 - Gene Hackman 911 Caller Emotional on Phone, Says He Can't See Anyone Moving

So, did 2 different 911 calls get made, from 2 different people, both witnessing different things for there to be a discrepancy in either the house being closed/locked... and the door being ajar?
The 911 call is not as reliably factual as a statement by LE.
 
  • #100
Didn't the Sheriff state there was no cctv on the estate or in the house?
 
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